8N will not start after installing electronic ignition mod

[Bill Helwig]

I have a ford 8N 6 volt positive ground front mounted distributer pre 263....serial number. I ordered and installed an electronic ignition module to replace points and condensor etc. INcluded a new distributer plate. But now it will not start. I followed instructions to install this and checked voltage at the point where wire runs into module from ignition switch. I have 6 volts available there. Electronic Ignition Module manufacturer said at least 5.2 volts are needed. Have installed new wiring harness, new plug wires with solid wires, new plugs set to 25 thousands, new distributer cap and rotar, battery is charged.
Not sure where to go from here.

 

[Dell (WA)]

Bill.......the 6-volt 4-nipple frontmount distributor is he!! on electronic ignition modules. You paid BIG BUCKS to replace perfectly good $20 ignition points so CALL and COMPLAIN the module manufacturer.

TIP: you just think you have 6-volts when you crank yer starter motor. The starter motor will drag the battery volts down BELOW the 5.2v requirement. Its the LAW!!! Electro-chemical law.

Did you know you can jump 12-volt direct to the starter motor stud and still have only 6-volts going to yer electronics module??? Try that and see iff'n you gitt'chur sparkies sparkling. .....Dell, yer self-appointed sparkie-meister

 

[Anonymous-0]

with a ballst resistor, you only have 4 volts to the coil. or less.
I dont like electronic ign.

 

[Bob]

Another case of "If it ain't broke we'll fix it 'til it is"!

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 02:14:16 08/27/09) Another case of "If it ain't broke we'll fix it 'til it is"!

....and , "Have installed new wiring harness, new plug wires with solid wires, new plugs set to 25 thousands, new distributer cap and rotar,"

thus thoroughly complicating the trouble isolation process by changing more than one thing at a time.

Start by putting the points/condenser back and make it run like that if you can and THEN when all is well, try your module again . Now you will KNOW if it is the problem or not.

 

[souNdguy]

did you remove the old ballast resistor from the line feeding power to the EI?

soundguy

 

[Anonymous-0]

I installed a petronix electronic module in my front mount distributor and it works flawless.
Be sure you run the wire from the module directly to the ignition switch by-passing the resistor.
Then run a jumper wire from the coil to the ground on the generator making sure the ground is good and your tractor should run.

 

[Bill Helwig]

Thanks to all of you for your replies and ideas. I ran the wire from the ignition module directly to the post on the ignition switch side before the ballast resister rather than after it (which several of you suggested might be the problem) and the tractor started and ran great. However when I came back later to start it again it would not fire or start and when I checked voltage there was barely 4 volts coming off the ignition switch. so now I am thinking of replacing the battery which is about 5 years old, cleaning terminals and possibly replacing the battery cables which look like they might be the original ones yet with deteriorating terminal clamps. One more question...I've got a 3 wire generator (two posts on the side of the generator and one on the end of the generator. Which post is the ground?

 

[G6 at Snook, TX]

That is the problem with EI. You better have good wires, connection, and a battery because it is an unforgiving option. Upside you don't have to fool with points and timing, bad is that if it dies you are a stuck duck and you have to have a tip/top electrical system to run it. You can be less than optimum with points.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 07:50:00 08/29/09) Thanks to all of you for your replies and ideas. I ran the wire from the ignition module directly to the post on the ignition switch side before the ballast resister rather than after it (which several of you suggested might be the problem) and the tractor started and ran great. However when I came back later to start it again it would not fire or start and when I checked voltage there was barely 4 volts coming off the ignition switch. so now I am thinking of replacing the battery which is about 5 years old, cleaning terminals and possibly replacing the battery cables which look like they might be the original ones yet with deteriorating terminal clamps. One more question...I've got a 3 wire generator (two posts on the side of the generator and one on the end of the generator. Which post is the ground?

" One more question...I've got a 3 wire generator (two posts on the side of the generator and one on the end of the generator. Which post is the ground?"

That is a really easy one. The one on the barrel that has no insulating washer under it.

 

[gahorN]

If God had meant for Fords to have elect. ign. he'd have made them in Japan or China. My points have worked flawlessly for more than 6 years since I last installed them. And Snooky.... what "timing"? (grin)

(Anyone curious about "timing" one of the front-mounts should read Paragraph 87, page 57 and view Fig FO83 of the FO4 manual.)

 

[Bill Helwig]

Good news to report. 8n running fine. Volt tester indicated that 6 volts were going in to ignition switch but on the output side it only measured 4volts which is not enough for EI. Bought a new ignition switch and that cured the final problem. Didn't have to get the new battery or new cables yet. Thanks to all for your toughts and ideas. I just bought this tractor last fall pretty nicely restored and it seems like I learn new things about it each time I am forced to fix something. I'm glad I found this discussion forum for the 8n.

 

[G6 at Snook, TX]

I could swear I remember JMOR making the remark sometime in the past that EI on the sidemount did away with the timing of the spark. I could mis-remember....And on that note I would like to announce I am running for high political office. Faulty memory and all!

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 16:00:18 08/29/09) I could swear I remember JMOR making the remark sometime in the past that EI on the sidemount did away with the timing of the spark. I could mis-remember....And on that note I would like to announce I am running for high political office. Faulty memory and all!

Don't swear...it will get you in trouble. :wink:

You won't catch me saying that! It was only 4 days ago that I called 8N1949 for saying that very incorrect thing.
http://ytforums.ytmag.com/viewtopic.php?t=522875&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

 

[G6 at Snook, TX]

I guess I didn't read that thread too closely or at all. Oh well I am wrong, and I guess I could be wrong again in my life. Damn, I hate being mortal.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 16:27:12 08/29/09) I guess I didn't read that thread too closely or at all. Oh well I am wrong, and I guess I could be wrong again in my life. Damn, I hate being mortal.

I have no problem with a man being wrong. I have a problem letting incorrect information propagate. You as a man are fine, as is 8N1949.

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 17:13:33 08/29/09)

(quoted from post at 16:00:18 08/29/09) I could swear I remember JMOR making the remark sometime in the past that EI on the sidemount did away with the timing of the spark. I could mis-remember....And on that note I would like to announce I am running for high political office. Faulty memory and all!

Don't swear...it will get you in trouble. :wink:

You won't catch me saying that! It was only 4 days ago that I called 8N1949 for saying that very incorrect thing.
http://ytforums.ytmag.com/viewtopic.php?t=522875&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

No dayum need to time one that doesn't have a rotor button.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 16:43:30 08/29/09)

(quoted from post at 17:13:33 08/29/09)

(quoted from post at 16:00:18 08/29/09) I could swear I remember JMOR making the remark sometime in the past that EI on the sidemount did away with the timing of the spark. I could mis-remember....And on that note I would like to announce I am running for high political office. Faulty memory and all!

Don't swear...it will get you in trouble. :wink:

You won't catch me saying that! It was only 4 days ago that I called 8N1949 for saying that very incorrect thing.
http://ytforums.ytmag.com/viewtopic.php?t=522875&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

No dayum need to time one that doesn't have a rotor button.

That is a valid point!

 

[8N1949]

JMOR:
Don't swear...it will get you in trouble. :wink:

You won't catch me saying that! It was only 4 days ago that I called 8N1949 for saying that very incorrect thing.
http://ytforums.ytmag.com/viewtopic.php?t=522875&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30[/quote]

My comments here are directed to two "living wonders" of what is left of the stone age people. These two have criticized me for a few words as listed above concerning a "rotor button and no ignition timing"

When one purchases a Genesee Product for Electronic Ignition for a old 8N with front mount distributor, you will discard all the parts in the Distributor. That consists of the "breaker plate, the points, condenser, and the infamous rotor button". The old type rotor button will not work with Genesee's system, as you will get a special "spark" rotary which looks like a "flywheel" cam that are on older lawn mowers. This is the transfer spark probe. Due to the fact you don't have a "old style" breaker plate for points, there is no need to "time" the distributor. The small plate with the screw on the side of the distributor in the "middle" position is your timing position.

There are two members here that like to criticize and point out "differences" to others that one has posted, or replied to another comments. Such has happen relative to my comments. I would like to say to these two..."It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open one's mouth (brain) and remove all doubt."

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 10:05:08 08/30/09) JMOR:
Don't swear...it will get you in trouble. :wink:

You won't catch me saying that! It was only 4 days ago that I called 8N1949 for saying that very incorrect thing.
http://ytforums.ytmag.com/viewtopic.php?t=522875&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

No dayum need to time one that doesn't have a rotor button.

My comments here are directed to two "living wonders" of what is left of the stone age people. These two have criticized me for a few words as listed above concerning a "rotor button and no ignition timing"

When one purchases a Genesee Product for Electronic Ignition for a old 8N with front mount distributor, you will discard all the parts in the Distributor. That consists of the "breaker plate, the points, condenser, and the infamous rotor button". The old type rotor button will not work with Genesee's system, as you will get a special "spark" rotary which looks like a "flywheel" cam that are on older lawn mowers. This is the transfer spark probe. Due to the fact you don't have a "old style" breaker plate for points, there is no need to "time" the distributor. The small plate with the screw on the side of the distributor in the "middle" position is your timing position.

There are two members here that like to criticize and point out "differences" to others that one has posted, or replied to another comments. Such has happen relative to my comments. I would like to say to these two..."It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open one's mouth (brain) and remove all doubt."

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 09:05:08 08/30/09) JMOR:
Don't swear...it will get you in trouble. :wink:

You won't catch me saying that! It was only 4 days ago that I called 8N1949 for saying that very incorrect thing.
http://ytforums.ytmag.com/viewtopic.php?t=522875&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

No dayum need to time one that doesn't have a rotor button.[/quote]

Sorry, sir, but it is the one that keeps dancing around, trying to obfuscate what he said that looks foolish. It is in the record for all to see.
Further, I already said, that it is not you, the person that I am out to nail (see post), but rather that I am here to help propagate facts, & stop propagation of mis-information.

8N1949
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: Lucy my 8N still refuses to start Reply to specific post Reply with quote


On the Genesee Electronic kit, you only keep the outer shell of the distributor. All the other parts inside you discard in the trash bin. [u:a3479302d0]No rotor button, no worry about "timing" the distributor,[/u:a3479302d0] etc. However, you already paid for the EI kit in the same old parts that failed the first place. And they will fail again down the road. If these old ignition methods were so great, all the latest automobiles will still me using them.

and
JMOR
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I have no problem with a man being wrong. I have a problem letting incorrect information propagate. You as a man are fine, as is 8N1949.

Sometimes you just gotta step up to the plate & deal with your statements & stop dancing around.

If that "no rotor, no timing" stuff gets picked up somewhere down the line & repeated again and I see it, I will once again point out the incorrectness of it.