@%#) 9N in Tipp City

I got here alright from TX. Cleaned the air cleaner, drained the gas and put in fresh, checked flow (good). Replaced the points and plugs. Get blue spark intermittently. This means that sometimes it does and sometimes no spark. Haven't had it fire yet. Last time I saw it 6 yrs ago, it would fire and the starter would drop out and spin by, but it would eventually start and run. Now I haven't had a single attempt to fire. Can't figure why the spark is not always. I only have so much time yet to mess with it and I smell like a sweating gas filter. I've had the distributor off once after installing the new points. The coil makes good contact. I need a suggestion please!! Thanks.
 
You could have an intermittent coil problem...bad key switch...bad condensor (even if new)...bad secondary coil wire (if it's a side mount disty)...intermittent problem with the plug wire you chose to test with.

key switch...eliminate with jumper wire across the contacts

bad condensor...swap it back to orig, if no change then your new one is probably fine

bad secondary coil wire...get new wires

plug wire...swap it with another

bad coil...welllllllllllll
 
The condenser was replaced with the points, but I may try the old one again. I ran a jumper to the coil (front dist) with no change. The coil is not too old, but I'm not sure how to check a can type for the front dist. Can you check resistance on them? The wires are a couple years old and have wire in them. Any other suggestions? Thanks.
 
First off, dress the points w/ card stock or a clean dollar bill. New points often have an oily residue on them.

Assuming that the bushings & advance weights are ok, the most common electrical failure (no spark, weak spark) points on the frontmount are:

1. The insulator under the concave head screw.

2. The insulator at the end of the points where the copper strip attaches.

3. The copper strip grounded to the plate.

4. The condenser wire grounding.

5. The pigtail/tab not making contact.

6. Incorrect positioning of the spring clip on the plate causing the pigtail to ground.

7. Incorrect seating of the coil on the distributor.

8. Water/moisture inside the cap due to gasket failure or the absence of a gasket.

Coil problems are difficult to diagnose. For starters, round coils are pretty robust & square coils aren’t, but neither one will hold up to a poorly done 12v conversion that allows too much current to the coil. There are a few ways to see if a coil is bad, but it’s not possible to determine if a coil is good w/o some expensive testing equipment. If you detect a dead short or high resistance in the coil w/ an ohm meter, it’s bad. If it’s cracked, it’s bad. If a sidemount coil w/ battery voltage to the primary will not jump a ¼” gap from the secondary wire to the block, it’s bad. But, here is the hard part: even if you do not detect a short, even if it will produce a spark, even if it’s not cracked, that doesn’t mean the coil will work when it’s hot & under a load. So, it’s a process of elimination. If the tractor starts & runs fine for 30 minutes or an hour then cuts off & refuses to re-start, and you checked for spark at the plugs & it had no spark at all, AND you jumped the resistor (if it has one) that’s a good sign that you have a bad coil. Let it cool off, restart it & if you have a good spark, odds are it’s a bad coil. But, even then, you might end up w/ a spare coil on the shelf!

Bottom line.....coils don't go bad from old age. They go bad from getting too hot thanks to too much current.
50 Tips
 
Thanks. I cleaned the points early on as I read it in the 50 tips, the coil has battery voltage to the top (it's front dis, still 6V). The coil fits OK. I think I'll change the capacitor to see if that's a problem. Haven't had it running yet. I've jumped it grounded the positive cable and touched the starter bolt with the neg cable to get it to spin faster. I'm not as spry as I used to be, so getting on my knees around it is wearing me out. I'm willing to try again to see if the capacitor is bad. Thanks.
 
Like anything else I say I could be wrong.I was a mechanic for 10 years or more and worked on lots of things,but not a whole bunch of tractors.From the end of the 70s until 1991.Lots of this stuff had points and condensers and some had electronic ignitions.Actually most of the problems I worked on was gas burning grain trucks.I only saw 2 coils that were bad and one of them rusted through from the outside leaking oil out of it so I replaced it.I know coils go bad,but there is really not all that much to go wrong with a coil,especially if it was running,then quit.Most of the time its the condenser.I have got a bad one right out of the box.Even a few sets of points wouldnt work right out of the box new.Now if you had it running,and it quit,and the coil was real hot,I might think it was the coil.If it sparks some times I think its probably a wire shorting out some where.Lots of times I had a wire that was bad,broke,scraped,corroded to where it wouldnt work,or at least not all the time.If it makes a good spark then chances are the coil is good.Maybe if you crank it when its about dark you might see fire jumping some where before it gets to the plug,or something is shorting out like where the wire from the condenser hooks to the points,or a few times I have found the wire bare and shorting out inside of the insulator where the wire from the coil goes through the case of the distributor.That will make it intermittent but your distributor has the coil made on the cap so I dont think that would be the problem.I think it probably is a wire or a connection somewhere.Trace it out from the switch with a test light and see if you loose it by moving wires around.Cleaning the connections on all of the wires of the ignition system might fix it if it used to run.Something might be corroded enough to where its hit and miss now.
 
Means you will be pulling the distributor to change out the condenser.....get your meter out & check for continuity inside the distributor. It is very easy to ground the tip of the condenser wire to the body of the distributor when you replaced the points. Also, make sure the condenser wire does not go through the same opening in the distributor that the coil pig tail does. The condenser wire goes the opening on the top right. Double check the point gap, .015 on all four lobes.

Next, with the distributor still off the tractor, install the coil. Look at the pigtail on the coil; is it touching the brass screw w/ the concave head inside of the distributor? Don’t trust your eyes; test for continuity from the top of the coil to the points. If you do not have continuity, stretch the pigtail a bit until you do. (some people would rather put a small washer under the brass screw) Make sure that the pigtail is not grounded to the clip that holds the distributor plate in place; sometimes you can move the plate while setting the timing & actually ground the pigtail. Your meter should tell you this even if your eyes don’t! Also, look at the little tab opposite of the pigtail; bend it a bit also to insure that it will contact the distributor cap. Another common failure point is the insulator in the tab on the distributor plate where the brass screw w/ the concave head goes; it holds the copper strip from the points. Again, your meter will usually tell you if you have a problem, but you might have to wiggle the copper strip a bit. Once you are sure that you have good continuity inside the distributor, you should be good to go.

At this point, I just put the distributor, coil & cap all back on the tractor as a unit (it helps to do this from the left side). The reason I do this is because it is real easy to get the cap or coil mis-aligned trying to put it back together one piece at a time & the result is something gets broken or you get a ‘no spark’ problem.
 
One thing I would do if I was you is pour some ATF in each cylinder while you work on every thing else. Doing that will help free up the rings which in turn will help compression. As for spark I would hot wire it and see if that helps. If it does then you know the problem is from the distributor back to the battery if not then your problem is in the distributor
 
Check your dist bushings for wear. Wiggle the shaft for play. Doesn't take too much. HTH
DON TX
 
I should have tried putting it back together whole, but the darn fan belt is in the way. Anyway, I replaced the condenser and checked it over visually, (before I got Burce's answer). I jumped it with 12V again to make is spin faster and it fired by a few times, but not regularly so that it would start. I like the idea of the ATF in the cyl for compression. I'll try that next. I'm running out of time now. My other daughter leaves for Croatia on Sunday and I have to baby sit her four kids (she just got promoted to S/Sgt). We are all proud. If I don't get to try the atf trick before I go, I'll do it after she gets back before I leave back to TX. Thanks. If you have any other suggestions, I'll be glad to try them.
 
If it looks like it will be a few days before you get back to it fill the cylinders with ATF before you go that way it will soak and maybe help things. Plus if you have to leave it for a long time again drain ALL the gas and also put ATF in the cylinders just to keep things freed up
 
My other daughter leaves for Croatia on Sunday and I have to baby sit her four kids (she just got promoted to S/Sgt). We are all proud.
Please tell her we said Thanks!

I hope you get the tractor going & sounds like the ATF might do the trick.
 
Thanks, Old. I got up this morning and put some ATF in each cylinder and rolled it over. After that, for the heck of it, I put the plugs back in and tried to start it one more time. It fired by once (starter spun out). But wouldn't do it twice. Darn. I'm not sure about the coil that was "made in Taiwan", but I do seem to have spark. I've got to leave this morning for at least a week. Any other suggestions? If it had a side dist, I'd have more options,...but it doesn't. Thanks again.
 
Thanks Jon, I'm really proud of her. Evidently her compatriots and superiors are too as this trip is really quite important I think. Back when I was in, we only had one "choice" of where to go and none of us looked forward to the "tropics". I'll pass on your congrats to her.
 
(quoted from post at 06:16:58 07/04/09) Thanks, Old. I got up this morning and put some ATF in each cylinder and rolled it over. After that, for the heck of it, I put the plugs back in and tried to start it one more time. It fired by once (starter spun out). But wouldn't do it twice. Darn. I'm not sure about the coil that was "made in Taiwan", but I do seem to have spark. I've got to leave this morning for at least a week. Any other suggestions? If it had a side dist, I'd have more options,...but it doesn't. Thanks again.



When you say it fires does it run for a couple of turns then die or just pops now and then? I think I read earlier that you changed out the fuel? No chance of any water in the fuel at all?

Lee
 
Well if your going to be gone for a week or so fill the cylinders with ATF and put the plugs back in. That way it will have all that time to soak and free things up plus also help if it has any rust etc in the cylinders.
 
If you have an original points plate the cardboard insulation could be failing on that little copper jumper that goes to the points. That is what was wrong with mine when the ignition went intermittent on it. The new ones use plastic
Cheers
Eldon
 
Yesterday's Tractor Forums

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top