Auxilary external hydraulics

[shopteacher1]

I have a snow blade that I would like to hook up to my 8n. It has a single action (power out) hydraulic cylinder. I have seen tractors that have loaders attached to the hydraulics, but can not remember how it was done.

On another note, what do you guys thing of using a 7 foot blade on the front of an 8n? This is off of an old Willys jeep.

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 22:09:41 12/28/10) I have a snow blade that I would like to hook up to my 8n. It has a single action (power out) hydraulic cylinder. I have seen tractors that have loaders attached to the hydraulics, but can not remember how it was done.

On another note, what do you guys thing of using a 7 foot blade on the front of an 8n? This is off of an old Willys jeep.

If the plow cylinder is not too big you can run it from the tractor's internal hydraulics by connecting the cylinder to the test port on the base of the pump and chaining the lift arms down. Use the 3pt control lever to raise and lower the plow.

Alternatively you can add an auxiliary pump to the tractor. The ones used on the loaders are shaft driven off the front crankshaft pulley and use the loader frame as both the mounting point and hydraulic reservoir. If you want to go that route you will need to fabricate a mount for the tractor and plumb it into the internal sump.

I make and sell a belt driven pump that is plumbed into the tractor hydraulics. It can be used to convert the tractor 3pt to live hydraulics and can also be used to power external equipment like your snowplow. Here is a link to my website for the current product: [u:9f0bf39ddf][b:9f0bf39ddf]Hokie Hydraulics[/b:9f0bf39ddf][/u:9f0bf39ddf]

I'm in the process of redesigning the mounting scheme and the pump will be placed behind the grille in the hollow up under the right side of the 8N style front axle support allowing it to be used on late 2N and all 8N tractors including the side distributor models. I expect it to be a major improvenment.

TOH
[email protected]
301.655.0631

 

[shopteacher1]

Could I hook it up at the test port and use another valve to control the front blade? I would like to be able to use the back blade as well.

Thanks,
John

 

[Greg NE]

You would have to hold down your 3pt arms to be able to use the test port to run your snow plow so no back blade. Sorry to rain on your parade. That is one of the drawbacks to these old tractors. Greg NE

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 11:06:15 12/29/10) Could I hook it up at the test port and use another valve to control the front blade? I would like to be able to use the back blade as well.

Thanks,
John

Not without some modifications. It is doable but by the time you got done you'd have the cost of an external pump invested. The front pump is the best solution if you want both and it can be added quite easily. Plus it will give you live hydraulics at the rear as a bonus. Give me a call if you want to discuss your options.

TOH
301.655.0631
[email protected]

 

[Dunk]

You can also take another hydro cylinder and rig it on the rear lift, to where when the lift, lifts, it compresses the cylinder, pushing the oil from it, into the cylinder on the front.

Drop the lift on the rear, and the oil returns to the rear cylinder, lowering the front cylinder.

I have seen pics of that right here on this board, very simple.

I don't have the time to find them for you right now, or remember where to look.

 

[JNP]

What you could do is plumb a ball valve (or any type of on/off valve) into the line going from the test port to the front blade. Then you could lift the front blade, close the valve (which will hold up the front blade), and then unchain the 3pt and use the back blade. Its not the best solution if you plan to use the blades at the same time but it will work.

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 13:29:32 12/29/10) What you could do is plumb a ball valve (or any type of on/off valve) into the line going from the test port to the front blade. Then you could lift the front blade, close the valve (which will hold up the front blade), and then unchain the 3pt and use the back blade. Its not the best solution if you plan to use the blades at the same time but it will work.

The single best way to utilize the test port as your source of hydraulic juice is with this simple top cover modification - [u:bd8ce5efd7][b:bd8ce5efd7]tOTG Top Cover Mod[/b:bd8ce5efd7][/u:bd8ce5efd7].

One way to use it to run your auxiliary and rear 3pt both at the same time would be to put external hydraulic cylinders on the lift arms and put a two spool open center valve on the test port output. Route the valve return back to the sump throught the side cover and run one work circuit on your external valve to the front cylinder and the other to the add-on 3pt cylinders. You can now use the external valve to control the auxiliary and rear 3pt simultaneously. You will lose the 3pt draft and position control functionality since you are disabling all 3pt control linkage feedback but otherwise you have complete independent functional control of front and rear.

Once you have the belly pump supplying an external circuit I'm sure you can find other similar configurations depending on exactly what usage pattern you want. But alas none of them are "live" since the belly pump only runs when the PTO is rotating.

TOH

 

[John Smith8N]

(quoted from post at 16:06:15 12/29/10) Could I hook it up at the test port and use another valve to control the front blade? I would like to be able to use the back blade as well.

Thanks,
John

The simple solution to use both internal and internally powered remote hydraulics with the standard touch control is to install a valve like this one in the stand pipe. Control knob is right under the seat. Push down to use the rear lift, pull up to use the remote. No chaining or tying down the lift arms that way.

These were used back in the day when loaders with no front pump were installed on the tractors.

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 15:01:43 12/29/10)

(quoted from post at 16:06:15 12/29/10) Could I hook it up at the test port and use another valve to control the front blade? I would like to be able to use the back blade as well.

Thanks,
John

The simple solution to use both internal and internally powered remote hydraulics with the standard touch control is to install a valve like this one in the stand pipe. Control knob is right under the seat. Push down to use the rear lift, pull up to use the remote. No chaining or tying down the lift arms that way.

<pics snipped>

These were used back in the day when loaders with no front pump were installed on the tractors.

That is fumctionally equivalent to the tOTG mod. With the mod you just install the 3 way selector valve in the external bypass circuit:

IN --> Test port
OUT1 --> New top cover port
OUT2 --> Remote equipment and/or control valve

But in both cases it's still one or the other - selecting one disables the other. You can get both by disabling the 3pt internal control valve linkages and connecting an open center two spool control valve as follows:

IN --> Test port
OUT --> Tractor sump via side cover
Work A --> Top cover port
Work B --> Remote equipment

Raise the 3pt control to the top and lock it there. Now use spool A on the external valve to raise/lower the 3pt and spool B to control the remote equipment. Again you lose draft and position control on the 3pt.

TOH

 

[shopteacher1]

Where would I get one of these? This looks like it will do what I want it to do.

Thanks,
John

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 17:10:50 12/29/10) Where would I get one of these? This looks like it will do what I want it to do.

Thanks,
John

You can check around but I suspect those old loader valves are rather scarce. If that setup meets your needs I'd simply modify the lift cover - just drill and tap two holes - piece of cake for a shop teacher Definitly less work than installing one of those old valves and the parts are available OTS for less than $100.

TOH

 

[ZANE]

LIVE THANG, LIVE HYDRAULICS FOR THE FORD N AND FERGUSON TRACTORS.
I now have a live hydraulics kit ready to install in about an hour or two. I am going to call it "LIVE THANG" in keeping with all the other stuff I have to offer on the Internet for owners of the 9N/2N/8N Ford tractors and Ferguson tractors with the original Ferguson system lift. The unit can be installed with common hand tools usually in about two hours. Nothing of the original tractor is changed and can be put back to original state easily by taking it back off in reverse of installation.
Shipping is included in the price.
$580.00 is the price for the basic unit

With the basic unit you will have the live three point hitch hydraulics and be able to raise and lower the three point hitch without the PTO turning or the clutch engaged. You can still use the PTO and the PTO pump will not be changed. No drilling or welding is required. THE THREE POINT LIFT IS STILL OPERATED WITH THE ORIGINAL TOUCH CONTROL HANDLE. NO ADDITIONAL CONTROLS ARE NEEDED TO OPERATE THE LIFT.
The unit consists of a low volume pump similar to the original pump capacity that is mounted to the engine by existing bolts and is belt driven. State whether you have a front mounted distributor engine or a side mounted distributor engine. The pump bracket has to be fabricated differently for the two.
It will take the average person about one or two hours to install and get it up and running. Nothing of the original equipment of the tractor or its appendages is changed. It is just an addition to existing points of attachments etc. No drilling or welding is required.

If you want a filter in the suction side of the system which I recommend but is not necessary add $60.00 to the basic price. Having a filter on the suction line will give the lift system a filter which we all know the Ferguson/Ford hydraulic system has been long lacking and needing.
. The pressure hose that is included in the kit can be used to route the pressurized oil into a remote control valve if you should decide to use the spool type control valve for remote cylinders etc. such as on a loader.
Most of the original N loaders had only single acting hydraulic cylinders or one way cylinders which ever you want to call them. They had to be made this way because the N lift would only work one way by applying pressure to the cylinders when the touch control was moved up and the lift arms were tied down so that the oil had to go somewhere and in this instance it would go to the cylinders on the loader and raise the load. It is very hard to control the lift of the loader with that set up and you do not have a positive position control of the loader.

With the auxiliary remote control spool valve you would be able to use double acting or two way cylinders and be able to control the load by moving the valve to the center or neutral position and have the lift stay where it is and not drift up or down as it wants to do with the old N system of tying down the lift arms etc.

If you wanted to have a loader that had cylinders to raise and lower the load and also be able to control the bucket angle and dump the bucket then you would have to have a two spool valve. One to control the height and one to control the bucket.

Basic unit will give you live hydraulics for the 3 point hitch. The lift will operate when the clutch is depressed and the PTO is not turning. Or you can use it along with the PTO pump with the clutch engaged.


The older model engine block castings are different than the later model engine block castings. On the older blocks like in the 9N/2N and the 8Ns built before 1951 the oil filter mounting boss and the oil filler/breather openings are different than the 8N blocks. The earlier models have these two part closer to the front of the block by about 3 inches. this makes it necessary to have a different mounting bracket for each one.
The Ferguson tractors with the Continental engines have a different mounting bracket for the pump than the Fords. The rest of the unit is the same.

Just send me a money order or a personal check to - Zane Sherman,
2824 Renfroe Road,
Talladega Alabama, 35160
and I will be glad to get one on the way to you.
I accept Paypal too. [email protected]

Thanks, Zane Sherman

 

[John Smith8N]

"Where would I get one of these? This looks like it will do what I want it to do."

I've got one. Send me an email.

 

[Anonymous-0]

with out pictures of what you offer for sale I doubt anyone will blindly buy from you.

 

[Hobo,NC]

I did and as did a lot of other folks ,,, it works and I am sure TOH's works and I am sure if either said it works I would not have to see it...

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 21:48:57 12/29/10) with out pictures of what you offer for sale I doubt anyone will blindly buy from you.

LMAO!!!!!

John Smith's [b:08b4b95137][u:08b4b95137]reputation[/u:08b4b95137][/b:08b4b95137] surpasses even him.

He is highly reguarded as our Guru!!!!!

I know that I would need, not one thing more, than his word.

 

[John Smith8N]

(quoted from post at 05:19:34 12/30/10)

(quoted from post at 21:48:57 12/29/10) with out pictures of what you offer for sale I doubt anyone will blindly buy from you.

LMAO!!!!!

John Smith's [b:596d82fd3d][u:596d82fd3d]reputation[/u:596d82fd3d][/b:596d82fd3d] surpasses even him.

He is highly reguarded as our Guru!!!!!

I know that I would need, not one thing more, than his word.

Thanks Dunk, you're too kind, I don't deserve that. I believe the Indyguy was talking about Zane's Live Thang having no pictures.

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 00:36:06 12/30/10)

(quoted from post at 05:19:34 12/30/10)

(quoted from post at 21:48:57 12/29/10) with out pictures of what you offer for sale I doubt anyone will blindly buy from you.

LMAO!!!!!

John Smith's [b:b1e1b35cce][u:b1e1b35cce]reputation[/u:b1e1b35cce][/b:b1e1b35cce] surpasses even him.

He is highly reguarded as our Guru!!!!!

I know that I would need, not one thing more, than his word.

Thanks Dunk, you're too kind, I don't deserve that. I believe the Indyguy was talking about Zane's Live Thang having no pictures.

LOL!!! John!!!
(Sometimes Classic and Modern view of this board get cornfusing)

In that case, I too, was just as skeptical of Zane's Thang, because he is so secritive about it.

I do have pics of Zane's Thang (LOL). They are out there on the Internet, but you have to find them.

If you just want to understand what is is, and how it works, here is a "lot cheaper looking version", than Zane's, sold by Red Rock Mfg.

http://www.redrockmfg.com/

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 08:24:08 12/30/10)

(quoted from post at 00:36:06 12/30/10)

(quoted from post at 05:19:34 12/30/10)

(quoted from post at 21:48:57 12/29/10) with out pictures of what you offer for sale I doubt anyone will blindly buy from you.

LMAO!!!!!

John Smith's [b:59013dbfed][u:59013dbfed]reputation[/u:59013dbfed][/b:59013dbfed] surpasses even him.

He is highly reguarded as our Guru!!!!!

I know that I would need, not one thing more, than his word.

Thanks Dunk, you're too kind, I don't deserve that. I believe the Indyguy was talking about Zane's Live Thang having no pictures.

LOL!!! John!!!
(Sometimes Classic and Modern view of this board get cornfusing)

In that case, I too, was just as skeptical of Zane's Thang, because he is so secritive about it.

I do have pics of Zane's Thang (LOL). They are out there on the Internet, but you have to find them.

If you just want to understand what is is, and how it works, here is a "lot cheaper looking version", than Zane's, sold by Red Rock Mfg.

http://www.redrockmfg.com/

Now if that is still not what he was talking about, and he is talking about Zane's Live Thang.

I have pics of it too.

It is just a hydro pump that runs off the standard fan belt, on the front of the engine.

The one that THO makes and sells, looks to be a lot highter quality, than the one that Zane makes and sells.

THO will also show you pics of his.

 

[Dunk]

Here is TOH's Live Thang.

Zane's works the same way, but uses the standard V belt that comes on the tractor.

So, Any other secrets you need revealed?

 

[TheOldHokie]

Dunk,

"LiveThang" is a protected (shotgun???) trade mark of one Zane Sherman. My conversion kit is the "Hokie Hydraulics" :roll: The only copy protection on it is I don't think you can build it for what I charge for them :idea:

Stay well my friend and thanks for the plug!!

TOH

 

[ZANE]

Semd me your email address and I'll send you all the pictures you want of my set up.

Zane