Basic welding question

[Anonymous-0]

I bought a cheap arc welder (70 amp AC only) and I'm doing some basic welding with the smallest diameter welding rods I could find... 1/16 inch. Basic question: If the rod sticks to what I'm welding do I have the welder set too high or too low?? Also, I've heard these welders called buzz boxes...is there a "certian" buzzing noise that I should be listening for to indicate an ideal setting on the welder for what I'm welding? Trying to find that point where I get a good arc and move the "puddle" of steel.

Thanks

 

[Anonymous-0]

If the rod is sticking it's set too low.A good place to start to find the right heat is to use the decimal equivilent of the rod.1/8" is .125 so start around 125 amps and fine tune from there.If your welder is only 70 amps,1/16" is about max.Should be able to run 6013 and 6011 no problem and maybe a 7018 maxed out(low hydrogen).
Hope this helps.Been welding for about 20 years now and thinking I should change jobs.It's starting to take a toll.Send an e-mail if you have any more questions.Glad to help.

 

[Anonymous-0]

70 amps is not enough.Dont expect much from these small welders.Find a used Lincoln 225.Most of my welding is done 100 to 150 amps.The Lincoln 225 can go down to 40 amps and it has a transformer that is heavy enough to hold an arc at that level.I see no reason to try to weld with 70 amp welders.It can be done if you have many years of welding experience.

 

[Stan in Oly, WA]

Hi Roy,

If everything else was ideal, then sticking rods would most likely be caused by too little amperage, as previously mentioned. With a "cheap arc welder (70 amp AC only)" it's practically a given that everything else is not ideal. An almost universal characteristic of low end welders is that they have low open circuit voltage (OCV). This is the voltage that you would measure between the electrode holder and the ground clamp when the welder is on but not welding. In a quality welder, one made by Lincoln, Miller, Hobart, or ESAB, for instance, the OCV would be around 80 volts. At somewhere around 60 volts it starts getting difficult to strike and hold an arc. I measured the OCV on one inexpensive 80 amp welder at 37.5 volts, and that welder will just give you fits trying to get a rod lit.

If you found 1/16" rod it's probably 6013 because that's about the only rod that size which is commonly available. 6013 is a medium penetrating rod which I find to be subject to voids and slag inclusions unless you're very steady and very careful. But it's one of the easiest striking rods and works well AC machines. You might also be able to run 3/32" 7014, 6011, and 6013. If you could find some 3/32" 7018AC you might be able to get it lit, but my money would be on not. I'd forget about regular 7018 of any size---that machine just won't weld with it.

Watch the duty cycle; it's likely to be 10% or less at the max setting you'll need to burn almost any rod except that 1/16" (which the package recommends for use at 25-45 amps, by the way.) Duty cycle is the portion of a ten minute period you can actually be welding; the rest of the time the machine has to be cooling down. Exceed it and you'll trip a thermal overload breaker, and possibly make it more sensitive to subsequent overheating. I once owned a welder that did that.

The sizzling sound of bacon frying is not as useful for tuning in the heat with a stick welder as it is with wire feed under some circumstances.

You can increase your welding success by cleaning the metal well (bright, bare metal is best), using care in fitting the pieces to be welded, and even heating the metal a bit before striking an arc.

If it turns out that you have a terrible time getting good welds, don't lose hope. It's probably your equipment, not you. Stick welding is difficult to master even with very good equipment. With low end equipment it can be an exercise in frustration. Actually, my opinion is that only somebody who is already a very good welder can get acceptable results with cheap equipment---and they won't have any fun doing it. When I say cheap equipment, though, I mean cheap NEW equipment. Used stick welders, on the other hand, are one of the best values going. They almost never wear out, and you can often find a used Lincoln buzz box, or similar high quality welder, for about the price you'd pay for a new low quality one.

All the best, Stan

 

[Anonymous-0]

try some 7018 1/16 i use them occasionally with my miller trailblazer with good results at around 75 amps. RICK

 

[Gary from Muleshoe]

Being pretty much a beginner at this welding stuff, I found it very hard to weld with a low end AC welder. I had the opportunity to buy myself a Miller Roughneck DC welder portable welder. Now I don"t weld like the pros but it is easier to weld with. I can weld light to fairly heavy gage metal with it and every thing has held together for me so far. The key to welding for us beginners is practice, practice, practice. Get you some old metal the same gage as what you will be using and just keep at it till you can run a good bead. Oh the other thing you need is a hand held grinder to clean up the mistakes (LOL)

 

[chuck craig in sunny suca]

Do yourself a really favor and find an adult school program with a welding course. LEARN THE CORRECT WAY TO WELD. then PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE.The other way is doomed to failure and very bad habits. chuck c

 

[Stumpalump]

Low current can make it stick but if your as lousy a welder as I am then even on the right setting you will make it stick once in a while. The key is to tap the stick to the work and pull it back just right to keep the arc going. The arc is metal and electricity so it won't stick. The buzz you hear should sound like bacon frying when it's just a little too hot. If your welding sounds like normal bacon then you need to first get closer or further or turn up the current some more. You need to really get that hot frying pan sound. Once you get this close you will see that now the puddle is a little more controllable and not spatering or dripping so much. Make sure you are learning on as clean a metal as you can make it. The grinder is your freind or play with some new steel. Anybody can weld new steel but rusty,old,greasy or painted metal is only going to weld OK after you can weld clean steel well.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Roy....git yerself some 3/32" 7014.......and some 1/8th plate.....and practice......alot.
The bright side is if you can get decent welds...with that machine.....your on your way to welding virtually anything.

Steve

 

[caterpillar guy]

70 amps is not enough to weld tin let alone heavy iron now the 6013 is ok 6011 is more of a penatrating rod and my favorite is 7014 will weld easy fills good and is stronger than the 6013or 6011 the first digits on the left are the strength. 7018 is a low hydrogen rod and wont burn good with AC cuent welders ever it works good on DC tough. The 7014 if you can hold the rod steady enough it will curl the slag right off the bead as it cools so the chipping is less.

 

[TimV]

Roy: basic answer to your basic question is the amperage is too low. Also, "buzz box" is just a generic term for any welder, but usually applied to the low-end AC machines due to the buzz they make when running, not due to any specific "buzz" they make when actually welding. As has been mentioned, if you are just learning to weld, trying to learn on a (presumably) 110-volt El Cheapo machine is going to be an exercise in pure frustration. I've seen professional welders cuss a blue streak when forced by circumstances to have to use one of these machines for a repair, and if a pro can't strike an arc with one the the rest of us mere mortals are going to have an even rougher time. It's the equivalent of using a .410 for goose hunting--yes, it can be done, but you better be a good shot to make up for the lack of firepower! Lacking a better welder, I'd set the amperage as high as I could and then try to strike an arc on a clean piece of scrap. Don't plan on actually welding anything at first, just see if you can get an arc started. If so, move down in amperage until you can actually run a bead. I'd say 6013 is a good choice here as it will start easily and is more forgiving of arc length. It may or may not be the best choice for actually doing your weld, but all you're trying to do is determine if your machine is actually capable of striking and holding an arc, and once you've made that determination you can move on to doing actual welding.

 

[ericlb]

ive welded non professionaly most of my life since shop in high school,[ in the very early '70's] and i was forced once to buy one of those 110v machines for 1 job, i never got it to work right threw it in the back of my tool shed, and its still in the shed somewhere, i havent looked for it in years and wont now, its virtually useless,

 

[Howard H.]

I agree with 36 Coupe - find a good used Lincoln buzz box... Out here they usually bring $75-125 at farm sales...

They are almost bulletproof and have the power to really burn some iron together... A great welder for the money.

Howard

 

[Anonymous-0]

Thanks for all the great comments and suggestions....very helpful.

 

[guido]

Het Roy
Set the welder close to the max try to strike an arc. If it does not do it at the high setting with the small rod then the welder may not be any good.
By i'll bet you it will burn the wire you have.
When it starts to burn push the rod into the the puddle. Keep turnig the amps down and repete the process. When the rod stick go up a bit in the amps.You now have the proper setting for that rod.
Goo Luck..........GUIDO.

 

[lucas boy]

turn it all the way up,dont use extention cord ,strike your arc like your striking a match.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Have never heard of a 1/16 7018. Dave

 

[Anonymous-0]

You've got some good information. Like Stan said, your machine probably has very low open circuit voltage which would make it difficult to strike an arc. 70 amps would normally be too hot for a 1/16 rod. I'd guess around 50 or so but you could experiment. The problem is that your machine is just very cheap. Sorry. Small AC current welders are referred to as buzz boxes because they are basically just a transformer that will often make a buzzing sound. Just like other electrical transformers. When the rod sticks they usually buzz louder. Not all of them buzz though. Like was said, try to strike the arc like a match. Make sure you're in a really comfortable positon to be able to hold a close arc. If you are using a hand held shield, get a welding helmet so you can use both hands to hold the stinger. If you're trying to stike an arc with one hand and hold a face shield with the other, forget it. The rods may have recommended amps on the package. For very thin material 1/16 rods might be OK. Dave

 

[dave guest]

Hope your rods are clean and dry. Some people used to dry them in an oven if doubtful. My granddaughter said her husband could not teach her to weld. I turned up about 200 amps and told her to show me. She welded. Even blew a few holes. More you weld, the better you git! Very few exceptions.

 

[Stan in Oly, WA]

Hi again Dave,

Seems like the overwhelming consensus is that your cheap welder is going to make it hard for you to learn to weld. If you need more persuasion to consider looking for better equipment, I've got a couple of things to add that nobody has mentioned yet.

1.) 1/16" electrodes are by far the most expensive size of mild steel electrodes. They typically sell for around $6/lb. I've only seen them offered on eBay a few times, and never seen them sell for less than $4/lb. Of course there are a lot of them in a pound, but you've got to burn a lot of rods to get good. My first welding instructor told me that by the time I'd burned about 10,000 rods, I'd feel like I was starting to get the hang of it. It turns out that that's way closer to the truth than I ever imagined. So it's good to be able to use 1/8" and 3/32" electrodes which can be found for less than $1/lb with a bit of searching.

2.) If you think that you'll benefit by learning to weld under adverse conditions because then later you'll be able to weld under any conditions, I'd advise you to think again. I'd say it's just as likely that the frustration you'll experience will prevent you from spending the time you need practicing, and that you may never get to the point where it's a lot of fun. I tried to learn to weld with a standard (non auto-darkening) helmet because I thought it would be like learning to drive a vehicle with standard transmission so as to be able to drive anything from the get-go. Now I think that was a waste of time. A beginner with a standard helmet spends so much time not welding that they don't get to experience the many other things there are to be learned besides striking an arc. Now I'm so convinced that learning with the best equipment available is the way to go that it's made me reconsider my lifelong belief in the value of learning to drive stick first.

3.) I'd guess that most of the people who have responded here would agree with me that welding is an activity that falls into the category of things that are as much fun as you can have with your clothes on---or at least that it's very useful. By trying to learn with needlessly difficult equipment, you increase the chance that you'll never get to the point where you enjoy it. And that would be a shame.

All the best, Stan

 

[Stan in Oly, WA]

Excuse me, I meant "Hi again Roy."

 

[trucker40]

Dont know what you have for a ground clamp,but it might help to tack your ground to your work.A buzz box is a name for a welder that is just a transformer.It will make a buzzing sound when you use it or if it sticks.Yours isnt big enough to buzz much.I can weld fairly good,did it for a living a couple of times.I have a hard time welding with a welder like that.It can be done,and if you get good at it you can probly weld better than a lot of us.You would be better off if you could find at least a 180 amp Lincoln at a auction or in the clasifieds or maybe Sears.Thats where I bought my first welder was Sears.Later I found a Lincoln 180 amp and sold my Sears welder.It was a Century,gave 90 dollars for it if I remember right.
If you want to weld stuff together I think you ought to get some 6011.6013 is not a deep penetration rod.It may be cheap,but its not worth much unless you just want to weld sheet metal.Thats hard to do with a little welder like yours,unless you weld it downhill,the least penetration of all welds.You want to get as small of rods as you can find,3/32 is about as big as you can handle at 70 amps.If you can find some 3/32 7018 ac rods get you some.Practice with those 6011 to start with.You want to push the puddle with them.They burn real easy.You can even cut with them.After you get to where you can stick stuff together try and weld uphill.Use the 6011.What you want to do is v a piece of 1/4 metal on both sides.Tack it together flat,then put it to where its vertical,tack a piece of angle iron to the back side to hold it.Start at the bottom of the piece of metal and run a bead up the groove pushing the puddle up the groove,but dont weave it.Once you get it all the way up,take a grinder to it and grind all the slag off of it.Get your 7018 and run about 3 beads up it side by side.You have to clean each bead off with a chipping hammer and wire brush before you start the next bead.If you can learn to do this,you can probly weld anything you set your mind to do.If you can find 1/16 rod you would be better off.Then you could turn your welder down to 50 or 60 amps,not maxed out.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Practice a sloppy moving arc before trying to pin point a starting place.Scratch across a with the machine off.Turn heat up first once you start to weld if the 1/16 rod glows back off .Try some 6013 for easier start.Should be run 20-40 amps.

 

[kez]

I'm not an experience welder. I have tryed a few other rods but found that 6011 allowed me to learn and make strong welds. 6013 I use to fill holes and for steel that burns through easily.1/16" rods are quite small and seem to be harder to use, but then I don't use them that much. Watch your eyes and keep trying. Good Luck

 

[mj]

(quoted from post at 00:12:22 01/06/08).is there a "certian" buzzing noise that I should be listening for to indicate an ideal setting on the welder for what I'm welding?

Thanks

When you've got everything right you should '[b:2922bd67d8]hear the bacon frying[/b:2922bd67d8]'. 8)

 

[Sam Brown]

I recently bought a miller roughneck welder, that needs parts to get it going. A printed curcuit board in particular. Do you have a source for parts? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks one way or another