Batter charging?

[Ol 54']

Not good news here on the home front? Well I have let the battery set for a few days, put my meter on it and it was showing 12.8 volts. hooked her up to shore power for a day and it had dropped to 12.4 volts. I then disconnected the shore power and hooked it up to my tow truck for about 20 minutes with the engine running and the battery dropped down to 12.2 volts? Disconnected the truck put my battery charger and overnight the battery went back up to 13.8 volts? Not quite sure what this can be I am still looking for the culprit..

 

[MarkB_MI]

Not good news here on the home front? Well I have let the battery set for a few days, put my meter on it and it was showing 12.8 volts. hooked her up to shore power for a day and it had dropped to 12.4 volts. I then disconnected the shore power and hooked it up to my tow truck for about 20 minutes with the engine running and the battery dropped down to 12.2 volts? Disconnected the truck put my battery charger and overnight the battery went back up to 13.8 volts? Not quite sure what this can be I am still looking for the culprit..

I spent many years troubleshooting various electrical and electronic systems. One thing I learned is that when something doesn't make any sense, go back to where things DID make sense and go forward again from that point.

You've determined that your battery WILL take a charge from a battery, but only from your stand-alone charger. (Let's ignore the truck for a bit, since that's something that DOESN'T make sense.) Take the battery off the charger and let it sit until its voltage stabilizes. Then put the battery back in the (unplugged) RV and monitor the battery voltage before and after you plug the RV into shore power. The battery voltage should IMMEDIATELY rise when you plug into shore power. If the voltage doesn't rise, something is wrong with the power converter or in the wiring between the converter and battery.

Did you check the two big reverse polarity protection fuses in the power converter?

Do the 12 volt accessories work when the RV is on shore power and the battery is disconnected? (I normally don't recommend plugging the RV in with no battery, but it won't hurt anything to do so briefly.)

 

[Tony in SD]

I spent many years troubleshooting various electrical and electronic systems. One thing I learned is that when something doesn't make any sense, go back to where things DID make sense and go forward again from that point.

You've determined that your battery WILL take a charge from a battery, but only from your stand-alone charger. (Let's ignore the truck for a bit, since that's something that DOESN'T make sense.) Take the battery off the charger and let it sit until its voltage stabilizes. Then put the battery back in the (unplugged) RV and monitor the battery voltage before and after you plug the RV into shore power. The battery voltage should IMMEDIATELY rise when you plug into shore power. If the voltage doesn't rise, something is wrong with the power converter or in the wiring between the converter and battery.

Did you check the two big reverse polarity protection fuses in the power converter?

Do the 12 volt accessories work when the RV is on shore power and the battery is disconnected? (I normally don't recommend plugging the RV in with no battery, but it won't hurt anything to do so briefly.)

X2 on the big fuses. Often they are sized at 40 amp.

 

[John T]

Not good news here on the home front? Well I have let the battery set for a few days, put my meter on it and it was showing 12.8 volts. hooked her up to shore power for a day and it had dropped to 12.4 volts. I then disconnected the shore power and hooked it up to my tow truck for about 20 minutes with the engine running and the battery dropped down to 12.2 volts? Disconnected the truck put my battery charger and overnight the battery went back up to 13.8 volts? Not quite sure what this can be I am still looking for the culprit..

Hey 54, thanks for the update, here's my thoughts after your recent info.

1) I don't know how accurate your voltmeter is, but subject to temperature a basically good condition fully charged wet flooded lead acid battery should read around 12.6 volts.
2) If properly connected to a good working charger, battery voltage should rise to at least 13 up to 14+ or volts subject to battery and charger.
3) If voltage doesn't change or even goes down when connected to a charger, the charger may be at fault orrrrrrrrrrrrrrr there may be a blown fuse or tripped circuit breaker (or try any re set switches on converter/charger) orrrrrrrrrrrrr a bad/open connection from charger to battery.
4) When you say your battery charger raised battery voltage to 13.8 THAT SOUNDS LIKE THAT CHARGER AS WELL AS YOUR BATTERY IS BASICALLY OKAY.

5) POSSIBILITIES: It may be your RV's Converter/Charger is bad orrrrrrrrrr theres a blown fuse or tripped breaker in/on the charger or in the circuit from charger to battery (like an inline fuse or a bad/open wiring connection) those connections can break or corrode.

Check any fuses or breakers (in/on charger or in wiring) or try any re sets in the charger and all the connections from charger to battery.......See if the Converter/Charger manual address the issue (re sets or fuses or breakers etc at fault)

I take it the converter/charger is receiving good 120 VAC on its Input side ?????????????? Its fed from a 15 or 20 amp single pole circuit breaker in your RV Power Distribution Panel IS IT GETTING 120 VAC POWER ??????????????????????????? It cant work with no 120 VAC input !!!

Most auto shops will test your battery and load test it, you might want to give that a try

As I already stated I cant know from here if you have a what I suspect a Converter/Charger (Converts 120 VAC to 13/14 VDC to charge battery) orrrrrrrrrrrr an Inverter (Inverts 12 VDC to 120 VAC) orrrrrrrrrrrrrrr a Combination Inverter/Charger which are readily available and often used in some RV's

Let us know what you find, hopefully its only a blows fuse or tripped breaker or theres no 120 VAC to chargers input !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

John T

 

[Ol 54']

There is no such thing as an INverter/charger.

CONverters, standard equipment on RVs for 30+ years, provide 12V from "shore power" and charge the battery. They are often the "breaker box" for your 120VAC outlets and appliances in the RV such as the air conditioning.

This isn't one of those situations where you can use incorrect terminology and, "Oh, they'll know what I'm talking about." Inverters are a real thing. They're commonly added as optional equipment on RVs. They have NOTHING to do with charging batteries. If you go to the RV dealer and ask for an inverter, they're going to sell you an inverter.

 

[Ol 54']

Not sure how I check these here, what I believe are breakers for being still good?

 

[Ol 54']

The single one comes from the breakaway switch and the other 2 are in the waterpump comp. Just inbd. of the battery, should have said this in my previous reply.

 

[504]

How many volts would be required to charge up my battery in my 5th wheel? There is an inverter which runs off 120 a.c volts. I am thinking my inverter might be toast, hopefully not. In the battery comp
Where the battery is located, would I check the voltage on the D.C. scale or the A.C. scale with a multimeter?

The charger quit on mine. 30 amp camper,I bought a 4 AMP Viking charger from HF.It charged the battery,shuts off when charged, and starts itself back up when the battery has a load on it. I used it three years, the camper sits on my lot on the river all summer and the charged keeps it charged all winter setting in the garage.

 

[Ray,IN]

I will stand corrected on that. Relatively new product I was not aware of.

However I will still stand by my statement that RVs come with CONverters as standard equipment. Your average run of the mill RV doesn't have the battery capacity to power an inverter for more than a few minutes. They barely have enough battery to operate the lights and water pump for a weekend trip without shore power.

This inverter/charger deal is something you'd have to add aftermarket, and if you added it you wouldn't be asking the OP's question.

None of this takes away from the importance of knowing what you have and using the correct terminology, because the two devices do very different things. I've been a member of an RV message board for close to 20 years, and it's a common point of confusion.

Not relatively new; my 2000 Winnebago MH came with a Hart inverter/charger. It died so replaced it with a Xantrex 3,000W inverter/charger.

 

[stdsch40]

Not relatively new; my 2000 Winnebago MH came with a Hart inverter/charger. It died so replaced it with a Xantrex 3,000W inverter/charger.

I had a Hart charger/inverter for 20 years, then 1 year during a lightning storm it crapped out. Tried to get it repaired with no luck. Ended up buying a Victron 3000w inverter/charger. Some fellow told me they are not as good as Xantrex cause they are not repairable, well I don't know couldn't get the Hart unit repaired either. So far with the Victron, good for 2 years, no issues.
Need any parts for the Hart marine charger? My charger is used to keep an older 3000amp hr forklift battery charged, as back up power for my cabin. Been pretty good for the past 2 years. To me the Victron is much quiter, and works better at maintaining the battery.

 

[Ray,IN]

I had a Hart charger/inverter for 20 years, then 1 year during a lightning storm it crapped out. Tried to get it repaired with no luck. Ended up buying a Victron 3000w inverter/charger. Some fellow told me they are not as good as Xantrex cause they are not repairable, well I don't know couldn't get the Hart unit repaired either. So far with the Victron, good for 2 years, no issues.
Need any parts for the Hart marine charger? My charger is used to keep an older 3000amp hr forklift battery charged, as back up power for my cabin. Been pretty good for the past 2 years. To me the Victron is much quiter, and works better at maintaining the battery.

Xantrex is not user repairable either, factory service centers_yes.

 

[Phil T]

The charger quit on mine. 30 amp camper,I bought a 4 AMP Viking charger from HF.It charged the battery,shuts off when charged, and starts itself back up when the battery has a load on it. I used it three years, the camper sits on my lot on the river all summer and the charged keeps it charged all winter setting in the garage.

Ditto on the HF charger maintainer, best charger I have ever had.

 

[MarkB_MI]

Not sure how I check these here, what I believe are breakers for being still good?View attachment 94961View attachment 94962

Not sure how I check these here, what I believe are breakers for being still good?

It's unlikely those circuit breakers are your problem. You typically have a circuit breaker on the battery charging line from the tow vehicle, while the other two circuit breakers are protecting high-current accessories, such as the landing gear motor. There probably isn't a circuit breaker between the power converter and the battery, although there should be two large fuses in the power converter's fuse panel to protect against installing the battery backwards.

If you read 12 volts on both sides of a circuit breaker, it's probably good. To be more certain, first disconnect the battery, then remove one lead from the breaker. You should read less than an ohm of resistance across the CB terminals.

For the THIRD time, did you check the two large fuses in the power converter? They protect the converter from installing the battery backwards.

 

[Ol 54']

The 2 fuses next to each other and marked 30, yes I pulled them out and they are bothe good. I hate to say it but when it comes to electrical, I have got to the be the dumbest individual to figure it out.

 

[John T]

Hey 54, your latest question:

Not sure how I check these here, what I believe are breakers for being still good?

Those are Circuit Breakers which are typically auto reset type that OPEN if current exceeds their rating but after a time auto re CLOSE until current may rise to high again. Think of them as a switch which is Normally On/Closed but Off/Open if current exceeds their rating.

PS I sorta doubt those breakers pictured are your problem !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I more suspect a faulty Converter/Charger (it MUST have power be ON and working) or a blown fuse (in or on the Converter/Charger) or a fuse or breaker in the circuit from charger to battery........

To test: 1) If they are to protect the 12 VDC wiring/output of perhaps a Battery or Converter/Charger and its ON and working, there would be 12 VDC on one side and IF On/Closed (NOT tripped) 12 VDC on the other side. Thats a simple easy check using a 12 VDC test lamp or DC Voltmeter SEE IF THERES VOLTAGE (with respect to the Negative) ON BOTH SIDE OF THE BREAKERS !!!!!!! If so they are okay and ON/Closed and NOT your problem.......

2) With their wires removed if On/Closed and NOT tripped, there should be continuity side to side which a continuity tester can verify or there would be near zero ohms side to side if checked with an Ohmmeter.......

As I mentioned above check alllllllllll Fuses, Circuit Breakers, Reset Switches (maybe small red buttons) ON the Converter/Charger as well as wiring FROM Converter/Charger TO the Battery. On some Converter/Chargers the circuit is protected by PLUG IN BLADE TYPE FUSES these are NOT the type you pictured so look for and check any (often typically) blade type plug in fuses right ON the Converter/Charger. In Line type fuses or circuit breakers are often right at the battery and there may be one in the circuit back from the tow vehicle to the RV battery via the 7 pin Round Plug on rear of two vehicle. Look for and check (per above methods) allllllllllllll the breakers you pictured PLUS any inline fuses PLUS any plug in fuses or re set switches ON the Converter/Charger. Those blade type plug in fuses (could be located in/on Converter/Charger or in line using a blade type fuse holder) will have continuity IE near zero ohms side to side if good but an Open circuit (NO continuity) if blown which you can also see by looking inside.

As a courtesy I will re post part of my above


5) POSSIBILITIES: It may be your RV's Converter/Charger is bad orrrrrrrrrr theres a blown fuse or tripped breaker in/on the charger or in the circuit from charger to battery (like an inline fuse or a bad/open wiring connection) those connections can break or corrode.

Check any fuses or breakers (in/on charger or in wiring) or try any re sets in the charger and all the connections from charger to battery.......See if the Converter/Charger manual address the issue (re sets or fuses or breakers etc at fault)

I take it the converter/charger is receiving good 120 VAC on its Input side ?????????????? Its fed from a 15 or 20 amp single pole circuit breaker in your RV Power Distribution Panel IS IT GETTING 120 VAC POWER ??????????????????????????? It cant work with no 120 VAC input !!

Hang in there you're asking good questions so digest the above and get your DC Test lamp and/or Continuity Tester, or Ohm meter or DC Voltmeter, and check breakers or fuses and for DC voltage OUT of the Converter/Charger TO the battery. Again a fully charged battery would be around 12.6 volts BUT IF CONNECTED TO A WORKING CONVERTER/CHARGER rise to 13 to 14 Volts. ALSO a bad battery may not accept a charge.

Post back any other questions, best wishes and God Bless

John T

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Not relatively new; my 2000 Winnebago MH came with a Hart inverter/charger. It died so replaced it with a Xantrex 3,000W inverter/charger.

Well, my 2000 Palomino truck camper has a simple CONverter. I know several people with much newer RVs ranging from travel trailers on up to high-end diesel pushers, some no more than 1-2 years old, and NONE of them have an inverter/charger. They all have CONverters. Some of them have had separate standalone INverters installed by their owners aftermarket.

So perhaps you can understand why I may not have heard of them.

 

[Ol 54']

I pulled the fuse/ breaker panel back from the opening, it is below the refrigerator and there sits the converter, with a ton of wires, it looks like the only way to remove it would be to take that other component out from the outside then the converter.

 

[John T]

X2 on the big fuses. Often they are sized at 40 amp.

In 54 years of constant RV ownership I agree I've seen plenty of them often blade type plug in right on the Converter/Charger !!!!!

John T

 

[John T]

I pulled the fuse/ breaker panel back from the opening, it is below the refrigerator and there sits the converter, with a ton of wires, it looks like the only way to remove it would be to take that other component out from the outside then the converter.

Thanks for the updates, Im NOT surprised, the RV I'm sitting in as I type has the Converter/Charger under the fridge with a rats nest of wires and almost impossible to get to grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. You can at least insure the 120 VAC Power Panels 15/20 Amp circuit breaker that feeds 120 VAC power to the Converter/Charger is not tripped and has power on its output, at least flip it all the way off then back on. Again, the bottom line if alls well and working when plugged to working shore power the battery voltage should rise to at least 13 to 14 +........... While you cant easily get to the Converter/Charger to check any fuses, breakers or re set switch/buttons, you can get to and check any and all fuses or circuit breakers in, on, or near the battery and compartment...........

As I told you above concerning the circuit breakers you found, if hooked to shore power and alls well and working there should be near the same voltage (12.6 and less NOT charging, 13 to 14 if charging) on BOTH sides of those breakers. If so and all else is fine with no blown fuses or breaks in the wiring FROM Converter/Charger TO battery, its voltage should rise to 13 to 14+ ...In the event you need a new Converter/Charger I would choose a so called SMART 3/4 Stage regulated suitable for your battery chemistry and FWIW in years of RV use Ive had good luck with Progressive Dynamics but not as good with Xantrex or WFCO.

Post back any more questions and your findings

While my advice above remains I cant help much more over the net, sorry. KEEP LOOKING

John T

 

[MarkB_MI]

The 2 fuses next to each other and marked 30, yes I pulled them out and they are bothe good. I hate to say it but when it comes to electrical, I have got to the be the dumbest individual to figure it out.

The 2 fuses next to each other and marked 30, yes I pulled them out and they are bothe good.

Good! That eliminates one thing. Now unplug the RV's shore power and pull those fuses. Check to see if the battery is actually connected to the converter by checking for 12 volts between the two fuse sockets; check across the same side of the two fuses. If you don't find voltage on one side, check the other side. If there's no voltage on either side, there's a problem between the battery and power converter.

If the battery voltage is present, check the power converter. Leave the fuses out and plug into shore power. Check for voltage on the opposite ends of the fuses from where you found the battery voltage. It should be around 14 volts. If there's no voltage your power converter is dead.