Berry cams

[johninmn]

I just wondered what bad experiences people have had with them. It seems like most that reported to not be satisfied are 2 cyl tractors is it just coincidence? Not interested in any bashing but im just wondering what the deal is because they wouldnt still be in business if they turned out only junk. I am planning on have them do the cam for my farmall m whenever I get the rest of my parts. Thanks all
John

 

[Anonymous-0]

I made the mistake of sending a Moline cam to Berrys. Lost 7 horespower.

 

[north puller]

I am no expert on cams, and there are better and more educated engine builders than me on this forum, however I have dona a lot of reading, and feel that I have a basic understanding of how cam changes effect an engine.

If your compression, stroke and rod length stayed the same, and you simply put a bigger piston in your tractor, you would want to have more lift and/or duration on your cam to allow for more airflow.

More compression means more pumping efficency, and can then take advantage of more lift/duration yet, where a stock engine would start to stumble from the extreme cam.

When you change stroke, or rod length, you want to change cam timming events to match the new position of the piston at that particular point in the stroke. Longer stroke means faster piston travel, and different rods will put the piston at a different spot in the stroke at the same degree of rotation.

Therefore a stroker engine, or one with lengthened/shortened rods could benefit from a grind that changes valve timing.

Also, changing valve timing can change the rpm range that the cam makes power in, and also how wide the rmp range would be. Some people want to custom taylor the rpm range of their engine.

From what I have learned, a two banger will benefit from a change in the timing of the intake lobe. Also increased lift and duration to match compression and engine size.

I dont know if they can or will for other brands, but when I called Berry about a 2 banger cam, they said that they do not change valve timing, only lift and duration, which is not what I thought my engine needed.

Otherwise they do have good prices and turn around time. Many people like them. I have never done any more business with them than one phone call and it seemed that they did not offer what I wanted for my tractor.

On a side note, Sonny at Bullet cams in mississippi does cams as well and he owns and pulls a Farmall M and people say that he does a good job.

 

[Josh Blackburn]

If i was building a M i would go straight to Gary Baker. His engines are proven and he grinds his own cams at a fair price.

 

[buickanddeere]

Quote " More compression means more pumping efficency, and can then take advantage of more lift/duration yet, where a stock engine would start to stumble from the extreme cam." Unquote

I think you intended to say "More displacement means more pumping efficency, and can then take advantage of more lift/duration yet, where a stock engine would start to stumble from the extreme cam."

Or "More compression also means more power stroke expansion ratio, and can then take advantage of more lift/duration yet, where a stock engine would start to stumble from the extreme cam."

 

[Agco Avenger]

Berry Cams used to be one of the best, maybe the best place to get a cam ground. Now the Berry family is not operating the shop, someone else has taken over that has almost no cam grinding experience. The cams from there are way off sometimes now. The last one I got for a Moline was off by about 20 deg. from where it should have been. I had to jump it ahead 3 teeth on the timing gear and use an offset key to get it close to right. The timing card didn't have the cam specs, just the master number & max lift. I set it up by the split overlap method since I didn't have opening & closing points. When I called to find out why this cam was off so much from the timing marks, and how to set it up, the guy told me that he was new to cam grinding & was now running the shop. He said that I would have to figure out where to degree it. He had only been told which masters to use for different applications when he took over.

 

[Mopower]

I've purchased a couple camshafts from Berry cams. I've always been very happy with their turn around and their price as well of their performance. I always dealt directly with Scotty but he has been in poor health and I don't know if he is with us any longer. This could account for the change and service and product. I hope they can continue.

 

[puller1]

Was wondering how long ago this take over happened. I had a moline cam done a while back & was just installing it.Will definately degree it.

 

[Schim]

I sent Scott an email on Monday and have yet to hear from him. Everyone else must call to get a hold of them I'm guessing... On the other hand I also sent an email to Murphys the same day and have yet to hear from them as well... Guess I will have to pick up a phone.

 

[Agco Avenger]

The new guy has been running the shop for about 9 months he told me a month or so ago. He said he had worked a short while with Scott Berry before taking over the business.

 

[johninmn]

Who would you guys recommend then? My thought was being berry is not far from me to just take it there but I would rather spend a lil more to ship and have it right then fight it after the fact. Its going into a 408 ci farmall 400 block....whenever I get the rest of the parts. Thats a topic for another time anyway wondering what you guys think thanks a bunch.
John

 

[north puller]

Sounds like the right time frame. I called about 6 months ago about my deere cam and didn't like the answer I got on the phone. Don't know the name of the guy I talked to.

 

[Anonymous-0]

I was always happy with the stuff Scott did for me on Case's like his #362B. Not saying someone else might have had something better but I always told him what I was doing and he ground me a cam that made some torque. I know some guys didn't like a Berry in a jd but they seemed to do fine in a 4 or 6 cyl. Maybe I have to go cam grinder shopping. I'm not interested in paying someone to learn on my cams!

 

[mEl]

(quoted from post at 07:48:53 05/12/11) Who would you guys recommend then? My thought was being berry is not far from me to just take it there but I would rather spend a lil more to ship and have it right then fight it after the fact. Its going into a 408 ci farmall 400 block....whenever I get the rest of the parts. Thats a topic for another time anyway wondering what you guys think thanks a bunch.
John

Don't want to cloud the issue because I have never had work done by Berry but my friend Doug Boll has and recommends them. I will say however that Sonny at Bullet Cams has done well for me and makes some pretty nice grinds for my Cases. Sonny pulls an M himself and I am sure that he has experimented to find what a Farmall likes. Sonny was a grinder for Lunati before coming over to Bullet and did cams for me before coming to Bullet. I have always had excellent turn around times and what I thought was competetive pricing. An example of the cam that Sonny gave me that I am extremely proud of is the 369.6 cube stock stroke DC4 that makes 120 HP at 1400 rpm PTO. I am sure there are other grinders but I'm like Doug in that I'm not going to pay someone to learn my cams when I have a well respected cam grinder/puller grinding mine. I have also noticed that when this subject comes up sooner or later Sonny's name comes up as in the MM cam post down the page here so my opinion is shared by many others. mEl

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 15:14:54 05/11/11) I just wondered what bad experiences people have had with them. It seems like most that reported to not be satisfied are 2 cyl tractors is it just coincidence? Not interested in any bashing but im just wondering what the deal is because they wouldnt still be in business if they turned out only junk. I am planning on have them do the cam for my farmall m whenever I get the rest of my parts. Thanks all
John

Reground cams are just reground cams from factory ground cores. Some dont want to tell you but that limits a cam . Herbert Brookshire, Mike Jones ,Ron Iskyderian can design custom cams for a specific engine build the draw back is a blank cam core is 1400 to 1500 dollars.

 

[BushogPapa]

Ever look at the "Over-Lap" specs on any Gas or All-Fuel JD 2-Pop "A" or "G" tractors..??
Strangely, there isent any..!!!
Intakes Open ATDC..
Very strange thinking, back then...but then, they were (generally) pretty fuel-efficient..

Ron..

 

[Anonymous-0]

The thing to remember on a regrind is, when the lobe is reshaped, it is very likely that the stock timming marks will become useless. A reground camshaft ALWAYS needs to be degreed in. You can use the stock timming marks as a baseline and sometimes they will work once again, but alot of times they won't. Antique engines are kinda troublesome to adjust the timming since the gear is pressed on the cam. You can make an offset key, or even broach a new keyway in the cam gear to split a tooth. I usually remove the key and rotate the gear to get the correct centerline. Once that is done, I remove the cam and drill & tap two 1/4-28 in the seam of the cam and gear 180deg from each other. This way is alot easier and stronger than using offset keys. It will also prevent the cam gear from "Walking" off the camshaft at high RPMs. Hope this helps.........

 

[mEl]

(quoted from post at 21:34:04 05/12/11) The thing to remember on a regrind is, when the lobe is reshaped, it is very likely that the stock timming marks will become useless. A reground camshaft ALWAYS needs to be degreed in. You can use the stock timming marks as a baseline and sometimes they will work once again, but alot of times they won't. Antique engines are kinda troublesome to adjust the timming since the gear is pressed on the cam. You can make an offset key, or even broach a new keyway in the cam gear to split a tooth. I usually remove the key and rotate the gear to get the correct centerline. Once that is done, I remove the cam and drill & tap two 1/4-28 in the seam of the cam and gear 180deg from each other. This way is alot easier and stronger than using offset keys. It will also prevent the cam gear from "Walking" off the camshaft at high RPMs. Hope this helps.........

Cody brings up a good point, after having a custom crank done by Moldex and having a cam ground we assembled the engine and it did not live up to expectations performance wise. After much soul searching and pulling our hair out we degreed the cam and found that it was 12 degrees off spec. Skipping a tooth on the gear and making an offset key put it on the money and it ran like a totally different unit. A degree wheel and some time learning the procedure is well worth the effort. To spend thousands in parts and not insure proper assembly is silly when a dial indicator and degree wheel are so inexpensive. I suspect there are many engines well below their potential because this step is skipped.

ML is correct in cam design. Some cores are better suited for a good grind than others. I have had this discussion with my grinder as my most frequent build has a less than ideal cam for performance. mEl

 

[farmer_nk]

Here's my first and last experience with Berry's cam.
I sent them a JD G cam a spring of 2009. I had about 5 hours motor run time last fall when I opened the crankcase to make a final inspection prior to painting. What I found was the cam lobes on the right cylinder were severely pitted. After removing the cam and follower I found they didn't grind the cam surface wide enough on the back side of the intake lobe near the oil pump drive gear, which in turn took out about 1/4 inch around the perimeter of the follower. I contacted Berry's Cam last fall, this was the machinist guy not Berry himself, about it and he declined any warrantee of their work, stating they don't know how much the tractor was used and it’s a pulling cam, etc etc. I finally convinced him of the machining error and to at least take a look at it if I sent it back to him. 3 weeks later my cam was returned. It was apparent it was reground. The intake lobe heights differed by over 0.10 inch and the exhaust 0.03 inch. He also gave me a different follower which wasn't even ground flat. Now the backside of the left cylinder intake lobe had a high spot.

I have since purchased and installed an Isky cam for twice the money as Berry’s. The Isky cam is well worth the price for the professional work they do. The Berry cam was very noisy. They grind such a sharp pointed lobe with no quieting ramp, which is hard on followers, and transmits a loud knocking/ticking noise. The Isky cam is much smoother running. Berry will never get any more of my bussiness! Nathan

 

[buickanddeere]

Thanks for the update. It's too bad to hear that
what was once a fine shop has gone to the dogs.