Best snow pushing tractor?????

[Anonymous-0]

Hi, I wanted to originally get a big farm tractor like a 9n, but financially I don't think it is going to work out. But, I need some money and thought that snow plowing is the way to go.(Money is for college savings, I will be a junior in H.S.) I live in a development with 100+ houses, but I will only be asking about 40 to plow (As the rest are just to far away). About 50' x 30' is roughly the average driveway size. And we get a couple of wet snows, and other storms we get up to about 10" max.(2 hours north of NYC)

My friend is trying to convince me of a wheel horse/work horse or case. He has an 8n and got me into tractors. I think I will get one of them, but what is my best option? I will consider ford or cub cadet too, but would like one of the other two. Of course other brands are an option too and I will be open to them.

What has the most power/torque and will be best of plowing snow the quickest and most effectively?

ANY HELP GREATLY APPRECIATED

P.S. My development has between 1/2 an acre to 2 acres

 

[beau5278]

If your looking at older garden tractors,60s or 70s models,there were a lot of them built to work back then,I know there would be others that would disagree but I'd put Wheelhorse a ways done the list.Cubs are great tractors,but if cost is an issue there are better bargains out there.My personal favorite is Bolens,1050s are pretty common and plows or even a snowblower can be had cheap.

 

[Rickmn]

Almost all of the older garden tractors that will push snow without problems use the same engines....so HP and torque will be the same at the engine. I have and use hard Wheel Horse tractors for plowing, disking and cultivating 1+ acre of garden, maintaining a long (1/8 mile) and mowing. Stay away from the work horse models, they were not as good as the str8 Wheel Horse. Also the GT14 had issues. I currently have/use the following. C120, 1055, D200 and Commaner 12. Good tractors easy and cheap to work on. (I blow snow and do large farm work with an AC 190XT)

That said the Cubs, Jd's, Bolens and so on were all good tractors. I would do some checking on the net because some are no longer in production and very hard to get parts for.

Rick

 

[Anonymous-0]

Hey, thanks you guys. So anything I get from the 60's/70's is all pretty much the same and are all good? So I can't go wrong with what I get, thats nice, hahaha.

I heard that the work horses are a bit better though. Can you explain more about those? Thanks.

P.S. I'm finding them on craigslist, so overall they'll be cheaper than somewhere that specializes in them.

 

[beau5278]

The tractors from the 60s and 70s were really pretty different tractors,they used a lot of the same engines but all had different transmission/rear combinations.Some are much easier to work on than others also.Also as Rickmn says some are harder to get pats or than others.Most anything with a solid state ignition from the 1970s are going to be hard to get parts for if you need ignition parts,when you do find them,they are expensive.As I said before,I like the Bolens tractors preferably with a Wisconsin engine but internal engine parts for Wisconsin engines are very expensive.On the plus side if you stay with a more popular model,it's easy to find a spare tractor or 2 for parts.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Cub Cadet 1xx hands down is the way to go. Kohler engines that still have parts available. and the transmissions you can't kill.

The gear drive models are extensively uses by the pullers so every part in the trans can be purchased that is 10x as strong as the original.

 

[IH2444]

Don't leave out the Gravely riders. Hydraulic lift was even an option.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Just keep in mind that snow plowing with a garden tractor in a development can be costly ,you will need tire chains on your tractor and they tend to scratch a paved driveway and you will get complaints --you might want to rethink the 8N--

 

[Tom Arnold]

Somehow, I don't think that you have a clue about what you're getting into. So here's some advice from someone who has been involved in plowing snow.

First of all, snow falls everywhere at the exact same time. All of your customers think that they should be first on your list but someone always ends up being last. Trying to clear 40 driveways with any GT is going to be a challenge. You need to start thinking about WHERE you're going to push that snow to when you plow. Maybe you're better off with a blower instead of a blade. Maybe you should have both.

A blower will allow you to toss the snow well off the driveway instantly but blowers are slower than blades because you can't drive as fast. Plowing snow calls for a lot of backing up. You got good advice when you were told to buy a Case. These tractors have hydraulic drive in them that allow you to back up and instantly go forward with no clutch and gear shifting to slow you down.

You also have high clearance with a 400 or 4000 series tractor that is hard to obtain with other brands. Another fact of life is that all machinery breaks down and it does so at the worst possible times. Having a back-up tractor is almost a must. Having spare parts for your tractor is an absolute must. Having a warm, well-lit place to repair your tractor is also a must.

Imagine for a second just how ------ off your customers are going to be if your tractor breaks down during a 12 inch snowfall and it happens while clearing the first driveway? Whatcha going to do then?

Snow doesn't always fall in one hour and then stop. Sometimes it starts at 11 o'clock at night and continues to fall until 5 AM. Now, that's when some people are waking up to get ready for their day. Some of them may be leaving for work at 6 AM. You need to find these things out so you can plan your route. Top speed of a GT is six mph. If you have two of those guys at either end of your route, how are you going to get both of those driveways cleared in time?

A 4WD pick-up truck with a seven and a half foot blade makes it easier to solve that problem. But a pick-up means licensing and insurance whereas a GT does not. When the snow falls, everything is covered and hidden. You don't know where the edges of the driveway are anymore and it's real easy to damage lawns and other stuff. If you wreck stuff in the winter, your customers will expect you to fix them in spring.......at your expense, not their's.

Sometimes you have to drive in stakes to mark these things out before the ground freezes solid so you can stop before you hit something. Sometimes you have to insist that customers remove items that might get wrecked. Are you going to hand-shovel walkways and the area right in front of the garage doors? If so, that takes more time and it slows you down. You are one person and one person can only do so much work each hour.

If I were you, I'd take on no more than a dozen contracts the first season. Better to have a dozen happy customers than 40 ------ off customers who refuse to do business with you next year and then tell everyone else about their bad experience with you. Trust me. Snow removal is a brutal, taxing job. That white fluffy stuff can make the toughest of men break down and cry. It tests man and machine to the limit. Cold steel is more vulnerable to breakage than warm steel is.

In addition, you personally will be exposed to the elements due to no cab on your machine. If you do get a cab, then you have to deal with windows fogging up. Putting heat in a cab is a real challenge with air-cooled engines under the hood.

You can't plow driveways if cars are in the driveway. People are generally pretty ignorant of your needs. In a perfect world, everyone would have their vehicles in their garages. There wouldn't be any boats, trailers, motorhomes, campers etc sitting in the driveway and people would immediately come outside and move their vehicles out of the driveway before you get there. NOT!!!!!

If you think that you can get through your route in 8 hours on paper, the real world will show you that it takes 16 hours to get it done on the best of days. Four wheel drive is superior to two wheel drive and diff lock on a 4WD is better yet. And then we have the issues created by whatever clears the streets. You could get halfway through your route and then along comes the road grader or plow truck. He leaves a two-foot high windrow at the end of all those driveways you just cleared.

If you think that your customers are going to look after that, you better think again. They're paying YOU to look after their snow problem no matter how it's caused. You need signed contracts setting out how much snow must fall before you are required to show up and clear it. You need to define what a "snow event" is if you are charging on a "per snowfall" basis. If you go flat-rate for the season, then you need to spell out the terms of payment.

Get 1/3 up front in November and another third no later then the end of January with the balance due on April first. If you're going to be in business, then run it like a business and don't be afraid to demand your money. Your machine will only run so long on a tank of fuel at wide open throttle. How are you going to handle refueling? You need to check your oil every time you refuel and that means having oil on hand. Making some sort of carrier at the rear of the tractor may be essential as well as having a few hand tools. Wiring in an hourmeter so that you are changing your engine oil in a timely manner is another wise move.

It won't take long to rack up 25 hours of use when plowing snow. Preventative maintenance between snow events is crucial. Assume nothing. Look for missing bolts, loose bolts, broken or cracked steel. Check over everything. That machine is your livelyhood. Without it.....you're screwed.

 

[Kentb of SWMO]

D-8,D-9, or D-10 CAT though NO QUITE A GARDEN TRACTOR.

Kent

 

[cbryder]

Hands down a Power King 16 14 with front end loader.

 

[CJ3b_jeep]

In my opinion I've never had much luck pushing snow with a garden tractor at all, 12" of snow is just way too much for them, plus the added factors of having to add weight, chains and get off the tractor to change the angle of the blade. I'd say find a good, heavy old cub cadet or Wheel Horse or one of the heavier Bolens machines with a hydro trans and a snow blower. It'll make the job much easier.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Hey Tom, THANKS for that advice. The biggest thing that caught my eye is that I should have a back-up tractor.

But first things first, I bought a wheel horse charger 12 for $80 today. Not running and no deck or any implements, well, it does have plow mounts.

Secondly, I don't plan on having any contracts etc. This is because I want to go around and tell them(before snow starts) that if the snow is too heavy, or for whatever reason they don'y want to shovel it, than they can call me and I will do it. I DON'T and WON'T have contracts that say I MUST remove their snow. I guess like a day to day bussiness. I also guess that you could compare it to a deli. Some days your paid to make a guy a sandwhich, but otherdays he'll make his own; Some days you'll be overwhelmed, some days you won'y have a lot of bussiness.

It looks like I will be able to get another tractor before winter and maybe I'll have my little brother or neighbor come out and help me on the harder days. So, that will cover my back up tractor(hopefully). And I think I WOULD get a case because of the hydro drive, or whatever you guys were saying. My friend has a case with that feature(unless all have it), and was saying case or wheel horse. It would be a different tractor and after driving them and using them, different days might require a different tractor. But my grandpa has tire chains in his barn that he doesn't use any more, and he said I could have them. I know they will fit for sure.

But as said before, in a different way, NO GUARNATEE'S!!!! to the customers, and I will make sure they understand. Another reason is that I might have school when their driveways need to be plowed. I will have payments preferably after each plow. Maybe different for some people, I don't know.

But the hourmeter to keep track is another great idea. Could you tell me how to do that? If not, I'll see if my friend know's or I'll put that question up here after I get it running.

Would tire weights be helpfull to, along with the tire chains?

But thanks again tom, you did have some really great advice that I didn't think of before!!!

P.S. I might see if I can rig a rack or something to the back to hold a gas tank, so when I run dry, it's right their. I have to think about that too thought because if it spilled, I'd be in trouble.

 

[Anonymous-0]

I did want a powerking, but they are just to hard to find. If one pops up with a reasonable price, I think I would grab it. But those are a lot more money than garden tractors. Or if I see a bigger tractor, between a garden and power king, I would DEFINITLEY take it. But I can't seem to find those anywhere either. But keep in mind, I don't have a job so money might not permit me these bigger tractors. And I plan on keeping the plow at an angle the whole time.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Also Tom, I don't need a cab. I love the snow and know how to dress for it. I also know some days will be just brutal, but, oh well, I'll just have to suck it up.

The other thing is the driveways. I will ask them to buy reflectors and put them around their driveways, and I would do their first plow at a discount.

 

[Tom Arnold]

OK Paul. Good move in not committing to all these people.

First off, you need to have a plow that can be angled both ways from center. The UB-54 Case blade will allow you to select either a 15 or 30 degree angle. You can choose any Case or Ingersoll branded 444, 446 or 448 tractor made from 1971 to 1989 for your needs.

All of these tractors use 8:00 x 16" rear tires so check those chains you have. The Hy Driv is found on all of these tractors as is the Hy Lift that will hydraulically raise and lower the plow blade. Believe me, after a day of plowing you will be grateful for choosing a Case 400 series machine. Being able to just move a lever beside the steering wheel to go forward and back instead of stepping on a clutch and shifting a transmission will greatly improve your speed to clear snow.

Having a lever on the other side of the wheel to lift the blade with one finger will save you a ton of arm-ache. Yes, you definitely need wheel weights and tire chains. Don't leave home without them. I would also load the tires with RV plumbing antifreeze to put even more weight on the chains.

Once you spend some time operating the Case, all other tractors will pale by comparison. The Case has a two-speed trans-axle and this is helpful when pushing light snow with the blade. Normally, low range is the work range but under certain conditions, high range works well with snow plowing. This tractor will solve your plowing needs everyday.

If you can get a back-up tractor, then another Case with a snocaster on it would be the best choice. That way, you could blow the really deep stuff and blade the light stuff. Don't worry about which model. The 444's are very capable of doing this work and I prefer them over the Onan twins in the 446 and 448 tractors. Other than the engine choice, the tractors are all the same.

Hourmeters are cheap to buy and easy to hook up. Two wires, that's it. Hook the negative lead to a clean ground on the tractor and run the positive lead to the positive terminal of the engine coil. Whenever you turn on the key, the hourmeter will get power just as the coil does. See the link below.

Make a rack that will hold two or three one gallon plastic, approved gas cans. A one gallon can is much easier to handle in cold weather so there is much less chance for spillage. Obviously, the smart place to refuel is in the street over snow so that any spillage will be absorbed by the snow and no customer property can get damaged.

Don't wait until you run out of fuel. Time your refueling so that you are between a 1/4 and a 1/2 full in the tank. Also, put an inline fuel filter on the fuel line just before the pump if there isn't one there now. And if there is one there, put a new one on.

Be very careful when refuelling to keep snow from getting into the tank. Normally, the alcohol in the fuel sold today will take care of a bit of water but if you get too much, then gas line antifreeze is essential to add to the tank.

Always check the engine oil before leaving to plow. Always top it up even if it's down just a wee bit. Don't play Russian Roulette with your engine oil or you'll lose.
hourmeters