Broken studs

[caterpillar guy]

I can't say the wax has ever worked for me in the past. I would either try drilling out the stud some or soak with some diesel fuel let set resoak do it several times and over a couple days then with heat on the stud it will probably come off. Not necessarily easy but come off. The fuel will flame up as you heat till it all is burned out so watch for a flame poping up at your hand. No the diesel fuel will not explode in there.

 

[jaoneill]

I can't say the wax has ever worked for me in the past. I would either try drilling out the stud some or soak with some diesel fuel let set resoak do it several times and over a couple days then with heat on the stud it will probably come off. Not necessarily easy but come off. The fuel will flame up as you heat till it all is burned out so watch for a flame poping up at your hand. No the diesel fuel will not explode in there.

This is far from my first rodeo. When I first began the process I drilled a half dozen 1/16" holes, an inch or so deep, tight to the perimeter of each broken stud to give the penetrant a fighting chance. Over the last week I have filled these 6-8 times a day as I putter around the shop with other projects. I is possible that the wax might work at this point; little to lose in trying it.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Saw the remains of the stud off so it is flush with the head. You need a clean, clear area so you can accurately find the center of the stud. Rent a magnetic drill press and drill it out until the head comes off.

If there is not enough surface area for the magnet, fab a plate from 3/8 steel that is held down by the adjacent studs or bolts.

Finding center is the most important part of the job... take your time .. days if necessary... once you get drilling crooked you will never straighten it out. A good start would be a double-cut end mill the appropriate tap-drill size of the stud to find center... and end mill will permit position changes and re-cut a new center. When you have it where you want it, bury the end mill to maximum depth. By this time you will have an accurate hole that the drill bit will follow all the way to the deck.

After removing the head, do the same procedure to get the nub out of the block. Using the same end mill, bore down into the stud but don't cut all the way through it. Bore the last 1/2 inch with the twist drill; when the drill breaks through, the thread of the stud will start turning, and since it can't thread in any farther, it will stop at the bottom of the hole and collapse into the flutes of the drill.... then when withdrawn from the hole it will look just like a heli-coil insert.

 

[Dick L]

Thank you, I'll give that a go tomorrow. Any thoughts on putting the rosebud to the block?

I have always heated the block next to the stud to expand the threads away from the stud and grip the stud close to the head. always worked for me. It really don't take a lot of heat.

 

[Dick L]

Problem is that I can't get the head off over the studs; once the head is off it's no longer an issue, it's the 5"-6" that is stuck trough the head that is the problem; no matter how shallow a taper I drive between the block and the head, it won't budge.

Wrong color of green for me to give advise. That is the only brand of tractor I have stayed clear of all my life. No real reason I can think of other than I was raised on other brands and never had a soft spot when attending an auction. I do own a hay wagon with John deer running gear that pulls like a dream down the road at highway speeds.

 

[cjunrau]

Finally getting serious about swapping engines in my Tractomotive (Allis) TL-10. Donor engine (Allis W-226) came with the machine when I bought it and seller said it was sound but, has been sitting for the three years I've had it and likely for 20-30 years prior, but it does spin. Thought it would be wise to check into it and maybe freshen it up, and then the fun began. Head mostly bolts on but there are 4 studs and head was not about to slip off over them. After soaking for a week with penetrant two of them came loose with my stud remover tool but the other two snapped off. One still had 1/2" of thread exposed and I've welded a nut on it but the 800 ft lbs that my 1/2" drive impact gun develops won't stir it and I hesitate to use the 3/4" drive that would most likely snap it off again. (the small gun on the stud remover tool was what sheared them off initially). What are thoughts on heating the block below the head where the studs are threaded in?

I would use an electric heat gun and when hot enough to melt wax, melt it in around the stud. repeat a total of 10 X maybe. try to loosen every few times. once you have enough heat and wax has worked it's way down it will turn out no problem. Not sure why but wax gets into rust and dissolves some of it,

 

[jaoneill]

Update: Did the wax trick 10X on each stud, then welded washer/nut on each one, both snapped off 1/2"-3/4" below the surface of the head so I'm back to repeating plan A; a long term soaking. On a positive note, there is now a cavity to hold a respectable amount of penetrant over the studs; I'm thinking Kroil.

 

[MarkB_MI]

Update: Did the wax trick 10X on each stud, then welded washer/nut on each one, both snapped off 1/2"-3/4" below the surface of the head so I'm back to repeating plan A; a long term soaking. On a positive note, there is now a cavity to hold a respectable amount of penetrant over the studs; I'm thinking Kroil.

Update: Did the wax trick 10X on each stud, then welded washer/nut on each one, both snapped off 1/2"-3/4" below the surface of the head

Did you try to remove the studs while they were hot or cold? I've never tried the wax trick, but I've had pretty good results with heat alone.

If hot wax didn't penetrate into the threads, I'm dubious that penetrating oil will, either.

 

[560Dennis]

I’d sugg putting it up on the vertical milling table now . Make short work ithe job. save the threads . Just what iwould do,

 

[Mobuck]

At this point I'd suggest finding a suitable chunk of wood and a big hammer to physically pound the head loose from the block.

 

[m16ty]

Worst case, find you another 226 engine instead of trying to swap something else in. They were great engines, parts are still readily available, and can be found fairly easy.

 

[560Dennis]

Stuff some rope down the cylinders and crank it over ,it will pop the head loose .

 

[Mobuck]

^^ Or bend a rod?????

 

[Dick L]

^^ Or bend a rod?????

You won't bend a rod by hand on the flywheel just repeatedly bumping the head with rope in both cylinders turning first one way and then the other. Heard about this method several times over the years.

 

[used red MN]

I’d sugg putting it up on the vertical milling table now . Make short work ithe job. save the threads . Just what iwould do,

The whole engine? That stud fastens the head to the engine. The shank part of the stud is rusted tight to the ID of the hole the entire thickness of the head.
I do agree with those that suggested a mag drill. I think it is the only way to get the head off. In my opinion, irregardless of what people think no magic juice is going to soak through that rust. Put an end mill in the mag drill and flatten the end of the broken stud. Then come back with a drill bit and drill it out, done and over.

 

[Mobuck]

"You won't bend a rod by hand on the flywheel"
But that's not what was suggested. The suggestion was 'CRANK IT OVER' NOT TURN IT OVER BY HAND

 

[560Dennis]

put some air pressure thru spark plug hole on compression . put in low gear ,lock and chock the wheels to hold it . Increase pressure will lift it off, tap head with soft hammer will help . You’ll get to come off .

 

[Janicholson]

"You won't bend a rod by hand on the flywheel"
j

But that's not what was suggested. The suggestion was 'CRANK IT OVER' NOT TURN IT OVER BY HAND

If all the studs are loose in the head, or bolts are removed, doing a rope trick is OK. the head has already been broken loose on one side, therefore the rope trick would only bend the stuck stud/s
Jim

 

[Janicholson]

"You won't bend a rod by hand on the flywheel"
j

But that's not what was suggested. The suggestion was 'CRANK IT OVER' NOT TURN IT OVER BY HAND

If all the studs are loose in the head, or bolts are removed, doing a rope trick is OK. the head has already been broken loose on one side, therefore the rope trick would only bend the stuck stud/s
Jim

 

[will-max dairy]

I wonder what a few drops of milkstone remover would do in each cavity where the studs broke off.

You can either try to penetrate rust... or just plain eat it away... (edit...I've used milkstone remover on rust, and it WILL eat it efficiently, but you WILL find out how much metal is left after the rust is gone, and that might not be a reassuring thought)

I've done the hot wax method before... I've found that the heat cycles are probably doing the work... multiple rounds of melting wax are mostly excuses for multiple heat cycles...

I've also done penetrant soaking. It works only to a point, it would seem that point is about as deep as you've already broken them off.

The air pressure thing scares me a little...isn't there a chance that... if you can store enough pressure to break that many frozen studs free...if they did break free... would you now be in punkin' chunkin' territory... only you would be chunkin' engine heads? (maybe not... but me and stored up air pressure are not friends...)

The other thing is... if you have now broken the studs off into the head... you now have a perfect centering mechanism for the previously suggested magnetic drill trick...