case 1394 loader problems

[Anonymous-0]

Hi, I just purchased This tractor and I am not too familiar with it. It has 3 levers to the left of the seat. One for the 3 point, the other 2 iam not so sure of? It appears you move one forward (one closest to you) and you can control the downward movement of the bucket. move the middle one backwaard and you can control the upward movement of the bucket, but only if you move the exterior lever halfway back or forward, not all the way? seems pretty slow also, any help is greatly appriciated.
thanks

 

[RGMartin]

Should be 4 levers to the left of the seat.


PTO clutch, Parking Brake, and 2 different gear shift levers.



Right of the seat is where your hydraulic controls should be. Anybodies guess on how they loader is rigged up. 30 years gives lots of questionable folks a chance to play plumber. Pictures or descriptions of what hose goes where would help.



There are 2 factory loader set ups I know of:

1 will draw fluid from one remote outlet, and return to the filler port or the plug on the top left of the rear axle housing(better choice as this gets the fluid into the trans lube circuit).

The other uses a "Power Beyond" block that taps fluid from on top of the remote valves.



Some earlier DB loaders used a "3 way valve", or the remote valves themselves for power.

 

[snowman4evr]

Here is some photos. Had to go register before I could post them.

http://s853.photobucket.com/user/snowman4evr/library/CRCPILKINGTON

 

[RGMartin]

Does that have dual tires on the rear???


Anyway, whoever installed that loader decided to use the remotes themselves.

Make sure the lines are paired so that the top 2 outlets run one set of cylinders, and the bottom two run the other. I would bet there are lines crossed at the quick couplers.


It is also possible you have other hydraulic issues, bad pump, plugged strainer, selectamatic issues, water in oil... that are contributing issues.


Does it have a double hydraulic pump or single?

 

[snowman4evr]

Yes, it has duals on the rear.
I appreciate the help. I will try switching the
hoses when I get home.
I am not sure about the pump, other then I know
its on the front.

 

[RGMartin]

The easy way to tell if a single or double pump it to see how many oil lines run from the front of the tractor to the back along side the engine oil pan. The suction line is the large 2" one, the pressure line(lines) are the 3/4" ones. One line= single pump, 2 lines=tandem pump.

A single pump is never going to be a speed demon on a loader.

 

[snowman4evr]

thanks for all your Martin. Looks like it is a
double pump. (more pics up) Still havent had a
chance to swap the hoses on the loader yet. Iam
pretty confident that is the problem though. So
much I want to do to the tractor before summer. I
noticed the transfer case or what I consider the
transfer case front shaft or short shaft look like
it was stripped or half the cogs were gone on it,
its pretty wobbly. Any experience with these? I
cant find no reference to it in the shop manual.

http://s853.photobucket.com/user/snowman4evr/libra
ry/
transfer case ? and other pics

 

[RGMartin]

You are saying that gearbox was under your tractor? I haven't seen such an animal before.

 

[RGMartin]

THinking this through some...

What size are your front and rear tires? The fronts look proportionally too big to your rears. Someone may have added that gear box where the driveshaft goes in order to keep the ratios right when they oversized the front tires.

 

[snowman4evr]

thanks Martin. well that explains why I couldnt
find it in the shop manual.

Fronts = 13.6 - 28

Rear = 13.6 - 38

 

[RGMartin]

The normal matches are 18.4-34 with a 13.6-24, 16.9-34/18.4-30/13.6-38 with a 12.4-24, or a 16.9-30 with a 11.2-24.

Most any size can be used so long at the rolling ratio stays about 1.4 to 1


Where was that gearbox driven from? The normal location is under the belly of the tractor just behind the clutch inspection hole. There is a 6 spline shaft sticking out of a housing(PTO shaft fits it).

 

[snowman4evr]

So do you think with my size tires I am able to maintain that ratio?

It was driven from where you are saying. It had clamps on it to connect the shafts.

 

[RGMartin]

Assuming the gearbox is the right ratio it might be OK??? I am thinking it probably isn't the right ratio given the fact it stripped the splines off.

 

[snowman4evr]

Ahh, I was afraid of that. That shift that is stripped off has alot of play in it also, at least a half an inch. front one not much better. What would u suggest???

 

[RGMartin]

Unless you are prepared to spend a bunch of money, I'd probably just run it as a 2 wheel drive.

Your front and rear tires aren't compatible with each other, and it is pretty clear that the bandaid/gearbox that someone stuck in there wasn't the right solution.

They may have destroyed something else with their engineering project gone wrong.

 

[snowman4evr]

If I was able to locate the right size fronts
12.4 - 24, is this supposed to just have a
driveshaft there?

 

[RGMartin]

Unless it was one of the special ones that had equal size tires on all 4 corners, a set of 12.4-24s with a straight driveshaft should work.

I don't know how they accomplished the gearing on the ones with equal tire sizes.

 

[snowman4evr]

ok Martin, I really appreciate your help with this,
guess I will try to find some right size tires.
Will

 

[RGMartin]

Tires, rims, wheel centers, driveshaft, driveshaft couplings...

That would be the shopping list assuming nothing else is broken internally.

Anything in the front axle, or drop box could be trashed too.

How much free play does input shaft into the front axle have if you turn it?

Does the shaft coming out of the drop box(transfer case) turn freely when disengaged, and not turn when engaged?

 

[snowman4evr]

(quoted from post at 16:00:32 11/18/13) Tires, rims, wheel centers, driveshaft, driveshaft couplings...

That would be the shopping list assuming nothing else is broken internally.

Anything in the front axle, or drop box could be trashed too.

How much free play does input shaft into the front axle have if you turn it?

Does the shaft coming out of the drop box(transfer case) turn freely when disengaged, and not turn when engaged?

ok then. I have the couplings from the old box that was there.
front axle has no play, and input shaft turns free when disengaged, and doesn't turn when engaged. seems good. I bet my front tires came off the rear of another tractor huh?
So basically it looks like the tires I should have are 4" smaller than what is on the tractor now. 4" makes alot of difference I expect, will this not put the tractor unlevel? It seems pretty level right now.

 

[RGMartin]

12.4-24s are about 45" tall

13.6-28s are 51" tall

Multiply that 6" times 3.14 an you can see how much those tires would fight each other. Obviously you don't run the front axle engaged on hard ground.

I'd make sure you find at least 6 ply tire for the front given the fact you have a loader, 8 would be better.

If your rear tires are on the smaller end of the size scale, or very worn, an 11.2-24 might be more appropriate. The rears should be as close as you can get to 1.4 times taller than the fronts.

I would be somewhat concerned you have no play at the front axle shaft. Should be at least 10-15 degrees just to take up the slop in the gears(ring and pinion slop plus the planetary slop).

The down hill is probably an optical illusion, those hoods slant forward pretty good.

Keep in mind that all of this info is speculation based on some pictures of some parts of your tractor that may or may not hide some aspect that would change my thoughts. It is worth exactly what you paid for it.

Good luck,

Rich

 

[snowman4evr]

(quoted from post at 18:21:42 11/18/13) 12.4-24s are about 45" tall

13.6-28s are 51" tall

Multiply that 6" times 3.14 an you can see how much those tires would fight each other. Obviously you don't run the front axle engaged on hard ground.

I'd make sure you find at least 6 ply tire for the front given the fact you have a loader, 8 would be better.

If your rear tires are on the smaller end of the size scale, or very worn, an 11.2-24 might be more appropriate. The rears should be as close as you can get to 1.4 times taller than the fronts.

I would be somewhat concerned you have no play at the front axle shaft. Should be at least 10-15 degrees just to take up the slop in the gears(ring and pinion slop plus the planetary slop).

The down hill is probably an optical illusion, those hoods slant forward pretty good.

Keep in mind that all of this info is speculation based on some pictures of some parts of your tractor that may or may not hide some aspect that would change my thoughts. It is worth exactly what you paid for it.

Good luck,

Rich

Thanks Rich, where u from anyway, if you dont mind me asking.
Sounds like I need to pick up about half of your knowledge.
Front shaft of that front gear housing may have some slop, was just going off memory, still at work right now. I know the front wheels have slop in them, about 1/4". Figured a bearing was wore. There leaking a might. Probably those huge tires.
Rich, again thank you for all your help. If you are ever down kentucky way, give me a yell. I liked to treat you out to eat at least.