Case 4WD tractor question(s)

[Kow Farmer]

There has been some very good discussions on here lately about the Case/IH merger etc. I was wondering why Case didn't stay building the rigid frame 4 WD tractors? Personally, I liked them way better than an articulated tractor. Did Case buy out Stierger to keep up with the rest of the industry with the articulated models? I am just curious. Seems like when you drive the articulated tractors, they take so much more room to turn around and they would have a lot more tractor maintenance?
Kow Farmer (Kurt)

 

[NY 986]

They did for a while after the merger. The 4494 was a continuation of the 4490 but painted red. Even with the Steiger line integrated there were a couple of solid frame models in the 9000 series. The wide spread market penetration of high horsepower MFWD tractors that farmers felt more comfortable in row crop operations was the biggest factor of the old solid frame Case tractor fading away. Back when the solid frame models were introduced in the 1960's there was no real agreement in the industry as to the power train in high horsepower tractors. Some such as Deere were less successful than others with their hydraulic assist front drive axles. IH's MFWD had poor steering as a characteristic. White probably had the best design.

 

[GreenEnvy]

They didn't stay with them because people didn't want them. Don't tell my neighbor Case crab steers are less maintenance because he will knock you upside the your head. Wishes he had a Versatile. The Case name around here was more or less tarnished by their 4x4s. They are usually grouped with the JD 30 through 50 series 4x4s as tractors that will nickel and dime you to death. I can't think of anybody around here that wished they had their rigid frame 4x4 either Case or IH back.

 

[Adirondack case guy]

GE,
You appear to be a bit of a Troll here in the Case forum. Do you do the same on the other forums, such as the JD forum? That being said, the acceptance of the Case rigid frame tractors was reigonal, and based on dealer support. Here in NY our land varies from river flats to steep slooped cropland on the sides of the vallies. The ridgid frame Case 4WD's were perticularly adapted to these conditions. Back in the 60s-80's most farming in NY was Dairy oriented, and prinicipal crops were hay and silage corn. Spring tillage and harvesting time wern't always blessed with warm, dry sunny days. Corn harvest was often in shin deep mud, and it was necessary to power and drag a forage harvester and selfunloading wagon through axle deep mud even on sidehills. With Case Crab Steer an operator could keep a pulltype chopper on the rows , by tweeking the rear and front steering. An articulated tractor was near imposible to control in this situation. Turn the front end upsloop to compensate for wheel slipage the back goes down,-- chopper badly off the corn rows. Most all farmers also used moldboard plows for primary tillade and precise steering was critical to doing a good job of turning the soil.
Flatland and crop farming operations this wasn't a problem, as the tractors were not needed to harvest the crop, and there was no sidehill drift.
It is true that Case needed to keep up with the mega HP race that started in the 80's. The ridgid frane 4 wheel steer design was expensive to build and maintain, and Case engineering and marketing knew that. The decision was made to just buy out Steiger Tractor, rather than dump millions into developing new designs, as the market was shifting so fast at the time.
Also Case engineering finaly embrassed the virtues of MFD row crop tractors in the 80's They make up the bulk fo all tractor sales today, no matter of brand.
There are still many Case ridgid frame tractors 1470-4894's still earning their keep here in Central NY.
Loren

 

[NY 986]

I think IH already owned 50 percent of Steiger when the merger happened. The tractor business slumped in the 1980's and early 1990's so Steiger was receptive to selling the remainder out.

 

[TomVAC]

Late 70's? they had leaking wheel planetary troubles and weak trunions? In the early 80's I worked for a former Case sales rep who bought a Case dealership. (Rivercity Equip. Eau Claire WI) He said the engineering dept. was told to fix the issues or heads would roll. They were losing sales because of this. From what I know they were redesigned?

 

[Adirondack case guy]

I don't know about that, but there were several 4166's around and a newer articulated steiger built tractor.
The interesting thing that I fine around here is the large migration of 2+2's that have found homes around here on dairy farms. Many delegated to pulling large poo spreaders, and on ocasion a chisel plow. I guess they have finally found their place in life. "wink"
Loren

 

[NY 986]

The 4166's were a disaster around here. Could not stay running to get through one season. I almost bought a 2470 in 1992 because the neighbor offered to rent his farm to me. Something told me not to do either and I am glad I did not as it was a terrible year for crops. I'll have to admit I am not big on Case but that 2470 was in really nice shape and I could have gotten it for 10,000 with eight nice tires on it.

 

[Straw Boss]

In my opinion, all tractor companies were coming out with much larger, tighter turning, MFD tractors which were taking over the high horsepower row crop requirements that previously only 4WDs could handle. They had front axle duals and hydraulic controls and GPM for planter orbit motors that 4WDs weren't keeping up with so 4WDs were losing sales. Case knew they couldn't hold market share with crab steer sales demand alone. Also at this time, the row crop industry went from 38" to 30" rows with sugar beets and others going to 22". Can't be done with the large frame and steerable axles they were using but Steiger already had a 4WD on adjustable bar axles with a turntable style front axle for precision row crop work. It was a good fit to stay in the row crop market and simpler design and upkeep.

Case tried to keep crab steer sales and offered a Steiger 4WD with solid frame and Case style 4 wheel steerable axles, but again, it was not well suited for narrow row crops spacings and not as tight turning as the newer, bigger MFDs entereing the market so had limited sales success as an all around 4WD.

So they also experimented with a 4WD that had all the 4 wheel steering of the old Case in combination with articulation of the Steiger.
It was ahead of its time electronics wise. Was a bugger to keep all the wheels and articulation working together as it should. Front steer or coordinated steering for x number of degrees of turn before the articulation kicks in. Lots of sensors and wiring and if anything got out of whack, you couldn't trust it to stay on the road to get it home. They only produced a few of these and dropped the idea.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Case sold the 9240 and 9260 for a while. It was my understanding that the farmers did not want the rigid frames any longer. Like the others said, MFWD's took over the sales and they went well into the 200 HP range. By this time, nobody rowcropped with them anyway.

 

[Adirondack case guy]

A greese gun would have done wonders for longevity.
Loren and Tom S.

 

[casepower970]

Seems as if back then guys wanted a 4wd for muddier conditions because back then people hardly any tile...if any. But rutting things up doesn't help the situation either.
We owned a 4694 CIH, from 1994-2001. Dad didn't act like the tractor was ever an issue for him. All he said is that the turbo went out in late 94, it was originally a manure hauler. For around here, the crab was unessicary. He usually used the front for rear, mainly the front.

My neighbor has a 2870 Case, bought new in 78, and has had nothing but troubles with it, remember seeing it stranded out in the field due to hydraulic troubles. Always had troubles with the steering. They hardly ever use it after being replaced by a 335 and 9390 CIH, its just a back up now. They are very high maintence machines, and now days with farmers picking up more land, they don't have time to fix stuff.

Around here, Case is slowly fading away. Case honestly doesn't have the best reputation around here. Plus, having the Deere factory less than 7 miles away, a lot more green. Lots of IH around here though.

Now days with high hp MFWDs, you can get a lot more uses out of them then having a "clumsy" 4WD, IMO.

I agree with Adirondack, about greasing them.

Good question though.

Kenny F.

 

[GreenEnvy]

By the time of the merger, IH had sold their share of Steiger to Deutz.

 

[GreenEnvy]

Whats up with the smart attitude? You didn't like my pics of the prototype magnum I posted in the other thread? I figure I can post on here because I own a few pieces of Case equipment. Also own tractors from the other manufactures like IH and JD because I like it all. I guess my problem is I don't fall into line on this forum were Case is untouchable and flawless. Just tell it like it is. Check out the link below too.
Case crab steer converted to articulation

 

[Adirondack case guy]

GE,
Just stop pulling your underware up over your belly button!!! You apeared here with several comments that were belittling Case. There was creditability to most of them, but you lack the ability to present facts without bias, and present a combative atitude. We as Case people know that there were short commings, but you seem to belittle the Case inovations also. My replys have been truthful with my experiences as a Case dealer, and it seams that you are unwilling to accept any coments that are contrary to your preception of the Case Co.
Loren

 

[Adirondack case guy]

Show us proof.
Loren

 

[GreenEnvy]

Go read International Harvester Tractors 1955-1985 by Ken Updike.

 

[GreenEnvy]

Here is more proof.
IHs share of Steiger

 

[pete 23]

I think Loren is one of most reasonable and knowlegable guys on this forum and he was just stating the facts. I come over here now and then just to see what the Case guys are up to and he has always been respectful of my remarks. Pete

 

[GreenEnvy]

Show me were I belittled Case innovations? All I did was present facts. When presented the opportunity I do the same thing on the other boards. And Nutty and I had a nice good short discussion on the combines. You also seemed to have glossed over the part in one of my previous posts where I also said JD 4x4s weren't that great either.

 

[Straw Boss]

I knew they built tractors for IH and Ford, but I didn't know IH had money in the company. Thanks for the info!

 

[1370rod]

In our area the high maintenance issues hurt sales. A grease gun and the outlawing of front mounted spray tanks would have helped but there were numerous other issues that kept driving nails in the coffin. It is to bad but even big green and red built models I don't think they are doing any bragging about, it was a learning curve for all. In the mid 70's I believe CASE was #1 in 4WD for a short time, correct me if I'm wrong. In my opinion and it is just that, the simple 1470 was their most trouble free 4 wheeler. Rod.

 

[GreenEnvy]

Versatile was about the only one that had it completely figured out in the 70s. Funny you mention the 1470. There is one sitting 1/4 mile from my house. I don't know if its dead or not but the owner died so its tied up in the estate right now but someday I wouldn't mind owning it.

 

[GreenEnvy]

And I bet the IH people didn't know they would be back together with Steiger again 5 years later permanently.

 

[Adirondack case guy]

Ge,
Cool of my friend. You have only posted about 50 plus posts on YT thus far. you need to calm down and learn about all the other long time posters here. They also have a vast amount of experties with farm equipment. We all are a family here, and have seen new to the forum people post with your attitude, myself included,years back. Hopefully you will gain respect for others here and provide your knowladge in a more respectful manor.
Loren, the Acg.

 

[GreenEnvy]

I've been posting on ytmag for over 10 years. I've changed screen names a few times since they started the password thing for usernames. So I called Case crab steers junk. Sorry if that offends you but that is my opinion like it or not. And looks like I'm not too far off from that assessment anyway looking at some of these other posts.

 

[Bill in Colo]

I ran a 2470 the past 31 years and its treated me fine, I 've a lot of hillside so use the crab a lot sure I've rebuilt the engine and powershift, engine was do to a cooler failure and the powershift wore out after 4400 of hard use. It has been the most economical tractor on fuel I've owned.
Went to a farm sale three years ago had two big well used Stiergers and one mint first year 2470 with about 3600 hours it was probably never out much more than 30 day a year, its job was to plant about a 1000 acres of hillsides with 40 ft drill every year, hard life it had probably replaced a AC crawler.

 

[Case Nutty 1660]

just have to say yes that is your opinion they are junk, I have four of them from 1200-2670 and my opinion they are far from junk, I have put over 15000 hrs combined on my units and other than fixing the parts that were worn when I got them due to lack of serivce by the previous owner I have had very little problems at all, I feel you are a bit bias to them from what you have heard (again my opinion) not from first hand experiance like Loren and I have the crab steer units have their place as do the articulated units as others on this post has said times change and the simpler bend in the middel units do in my opinion have less wear parts and combined with good componant's they do give good serivce as well, as Rod stated the 1470 was a simple 8spd manual tranny with one of the best Case engines ever made combine that with a solid iron frame made strong they will last a long long time, the power shifts in the later models can give trouble but again most of those problems like breaking trunions back to operator misuse and or abuse, I like Loren was a dealer when these came out and were in their heyday of sales out here in the plains we very seldom lost a sale to other brands becasuse we had "junk" to sell they were a very good product but like any thing one can always find faults, one thing I want to bring up is trunion breakage, as a dealer we seen a few break, mainly what I seen breakage on was the ones we sold with dozers and the guys would not remove the duals or at the very least run reduced air pressure in the out side duals when dozing, a 24/2670 has a lot of torque and push power put all of that on the outside dual enough and yes you would break a trunion but again to me as a dealer/mechanic/operator that was abuse bar none, we did have a rear one fail under warrenty on a 2470 we sold with a V-ripper with extra long shanks, operator went across a coal mine haul road(one they run haul trucks carring 200 tons of coal) with the ripper buried almost to the frame, the 2470 spun out about have way across the very hard packed road bed, instead of backing up a bit to relieve the shanks he grabbed the 3pt lever and raised,,BANG broke the RH trunion, due to the low hrs and to make them happy Case agreed to replace the part no charge upon me explaining what had happened, that coal mine bought 4 more 4 wheel drives from us to use at other mines because of that and never broke another trunion, sorry for the long post but I felt the need to give more input on these units, as Rod said Case did have the #1 sales spot for several years I think in the late 70's I have the info some where

 

[justanothercase]

Before i sent my 2470 down the road it got relegated to manure scraper duty. And honestly now that its gone its missed, it was the best tractor for the job. it would turn shorter than the 2wd tractors(unless you used the brakes in them) it would go through quite a bit and since it was dualled up it would float through the spots it needed to. I think the demise of these tractors had more to do with cost than anything else. More parts to make them turn, u-joints on every corner.Articulated tractors are cheaper and a more reliable steering system without the cables and electronics that plagued steering in later models. And i agree that a greese gun goes a long way twoards less trouble. My personal opinion is they needed more motor in these tractors. The popularity of 200 hp front assists completely eliminated these tractors in my area. The larger farmers bought bigger articulated tractors 300+ hp. The cases with a pto make a pretty decent grain cart tractor too.

 

[tanman_2006]

(quoted from post at 14:05:07 03/21/13) Before i sent my 2470 down the road it got relegated to manure scraper duty. And honestly now that its gone its missed, it was the best tractor for the job. it would turn shorter than the 2wd tractors(unless you used the brakes in them) it would go through quite a bit and since it was dualled up it would float through the spots it needed to. I think the demise of these tractors had more to do with cost than anything else. More parts to make them turn, u-joints on every corner.Articulated tractors are cheaper and a more reliable steering system without the cables and electronics that plagued steering in later models. And i agree that a greese gun goes a long way twoards less trouble. My personal opinion is they needed more motor in these tractors. The popularity of 200 hp front assists completely eliminated these tractors in my area. The larger farmers bought bigger articulated tractors 300+ hp. The cases with a pto make a pretty decent grain cart tractor too.

I would run a crab steer or 2+2 for a drilling tractor. I dont do heavy tillage and my 8920 does great for drilling but a larger framed tractor that might be able to crawl hills better might be nice someday, anyways it would be neat to say I use an old rig like that on a daily basis.

There are a couple 2+2's parked in the weeds at a neighbors and my buddy has 3 crawlers (not sure of the models) and he uses them for big square baling and working their ground, his dad drills with a 2290 or similar model 140hp.

 

[justanothercase]

While i had my 2470 i used a 2590 to pull my airseeder. The "25" would put quite a bit more power to the ground, i could pull the airseeder(30ft. 1850 Deere w/787 cart) and 230 bushel cart at least 1.5 mph faster with the 25. My 24 was turned up too. there were times the four wheel drive would have been nice but not often enough to make me want to pull airseeder with it. my biggest complaint was i just couldnt get enough horsepower to turn all those differentials and put the power to the ground. I really shouldnt even call it a complaint, i was just asking the tractor to pull things it wasn't capable of.

 

[tanman_2006]

(quoted from post at 16:12:58 03/21/13)
While i had my 2470 i used a 2590 to pull my airseeder. The "25" would put quite a bit more power to the ground, i could pull the airseeder(30ft. 1850 Deere w/787 cart) and 230 bushel cart at least 1.5 mph faster with the 25. My 24 was turned up too. there were times the four wheel drive would have been nice but not often enough to make me want to pull airseeder with it. my biggest complaint was i just couldnt get enough horsepower to turn all those differentials and put the power to the ground. I really shouldnt even call it a complaint, i was just asking the tractor to pull things it wasn't capable of.

I'm honestly surprised the hydraulics held up. They told me my 8920's hyd's would not work well with an air seeder, I was looking for 25-30ft. I went with a Great Plains No Till 30ft instead.

Our neighbor tried his older stieger and it couldnt keep enough pressure iirc and it is a well kept rig.

 

[justanothercase]

The hydraulics worked good. Couldnt quite lift the tool all the way out of the ground when turning sometimes though. I didnt run the active down pressure either. i just bumped the lever a few times going down the field and paid attention to the pressure gauge. I bought a 4960 deere last fall and have a feeling it will be the same. Im going to run it this year and see and if it doesnt work well i will put a auxillary hyd. unit on it, probably off the PTO. Im tying my money up in a blockage/population monitor this year so it will have to wait.

I went with the airseeder with a tow between cart because i was told i would have a harder time pulling a set of box no-tills since i wouldnt have the weight on the hitch. How does your tractor handle those great plains is it ever a traction battle when they are loaded? my airseeder was harder to pull up hill when its about empty than when it is fully loaded. I can seed about 70 acres between fills, what do you average with the box drills?

 

[tanman_2006]

(quoted from post at 22:03:49 03/21/13) The hydraulics worked good. Couldnt quite lift the tool all the way out of the ground when turning sometimes though. I didnt run the active down pressure either. i just bumped the lever a few times going down the field and paid attention to the pressure gauge. I bought a 4960 deere last fall and have a feeling it will be the same. Im going to run it this year and see and if it doesnt work well i will put a auxillary hyd. unit on it, probably off the PTO. Im tying my money up in a blockage/population monitor this year so it will have to wait.

I went with the airseeder with a tow between cart because i was told i would have a harder time pulling a set of box no-tills since i wouldnt have the weight on the hitch. How does your tractor handle those great plains is it ever a traction battle when they are loaded? my airseeder was harder to pull up hill when its about empty than when it is fully loaded. I can seed about 70 acres between fills, what do you average with the box drills?

Traction hasnt been an issue, my 8920 has a full rack up front and weights on the inner rear axle. If I loose traction there arent many other tractors that can pull that hill either, had fewer issues than our 9420 deere an 350 cart w/ 42ft drill on large sand hills. I have tounge weight with my 500 gallon liquid tank on the tounge and once you get down pressure cranked up that puts stress on the hitch too, thinking a 3pt hitch next time.

How long I can drill depends on how many #/Ac I'm putting in lol. I can get ~70 ac on mine too running normal bushel and a peck most grain farmers do here. 2bpa will run me short pretty quick but I dont do many acres at that rate.

 

[Anonymous-0]

I got to run a 4994 pulling a big heavy disk setup. When the transmission was happy that was an awesome tractor. That big Swedish V8 was some motor. I also spent a fair amount of time in a 2870 packing silage piles (love that crab steer with a 6-way dozer). Apparently the later engines in the 90 series were Mexican-built and a little less reliable in the long run, or so I was told. It's interesting to compare the different approaches to engineering a four wheel drive tractor. The articulated and the knuckle steers were a big departure from something that was usually a modification of an existing two-wheel drive design. Something like a Ford County, or even the IH anteaters to some degree. If you look at the earlier JD tractors, they essentially had the entire rear structure of a two wheel drive in the back, with cables to run things, so that they could articulate (7520, 84 and 8630). At least with that approach, the problem of including a PTO was solved, and the brakes and hydraulics were already developed and proven.

 

[axe55]

i'm new here and i have learned a lot . yes we are loyal to case, i'm not a farmer so a little trouble really doesn't matter. most on here are
farmers. real smart guys loyal to case. but loyalty doesn't make money they buy the best product for they're needs . as long as i have been on the forum no one here has run down other makes and models. ( guys don't even respond to negativity.)