Case 580 Starting

[Duetz Fan]

Diesels all ( in my mind) have different starting characteristics.. I"ve got a Perkins here that starts immediate all the time even with frost on the hood.. I"ve got a Detroit that needs a starting fluid sniff if it gets down to 32... Everything is different. Just bought a Case 580C/no oilbath air cleaner..no glow plugs. I look in the manual.. Max crank time 30 seconds on the starter.. Wow, 30 seconds on a diesel starter seems long... I"ve never owned a Case before.. On a 30 degree day would 20-25 seconds of cranking ( blows white while cranking ) then eventual fires off with a puff of black but NO blue at all seem the norm on one of these Case machines? I"ve never owned a Case before so I"m curious if they normally require an extended crank when cold ( fires immediate once started ) before I start worrying... Under 32 degrees if the block heater is not plugged in it needs just a sniff to get going..Never any blue smoke then either...

 

[Anonymous-0]

Check intake for electric heater, have seen them in Case engines before, sure helps with cold starts if you have one. If not, most need a small shot of ether, but don't use both at once.

 

[BCnT]

guy i worked for years ago had a couple 580CK's...they were hard to start but also wore out junk he'd picked up somewhere...we soaked a shop rag in gas and held it up to snorkel in the morning to get em fired up...didnt take but a couple turns for them to start.

 

[steve n carol]

my CASE take about 8 seconds on the starter...207 ci (i think) no glow plugs, normally aspirated, old battery from a Honda, at about 25-30 degrees.

my ford 3 cyl skiploader, about 2 turns of the crank. Same conditions (and battery)...sl

no complaints...

 

[LJD]

It's a matter of your specific engine - not just the model. I've got a Case 188 that starts at 40 degrees with maybe 6 seconds cranking and no ether or electric heat.

I also have a brand-new Case 207D engine in a backhoe (same basic engine as the 188) that even at 50 degrees - has to do a lot of cranking -or needs ether or electric heat to start. As soon as it does start - it runs perfect all day long. Great power and uses no oil.

Same can be said for Deere and many other direct-injected diesels. Even when new at the dealer - some started great and some did not.

Case offers a electric air-intake heater for the 188 and 207. Screws into the intake manifold. Both mine have it.

 

[Duetz Fan]

Well by golly you just gave me a shot of Starting Fluid to the brain and the probable solution or at least saved some serious starter wear... I get me a glow plug from either Tractor Supply or NAPA ( I looked there's a boss with a plug in it in the intake manifold for a glow plug..) I use a fog lamp relay/got one on the shelf with a momentary switch to trip the relay to heat the plug about 1/2 an hour running the control wire & I'm almost done.. the missing puzzle piece...how long to warm the glow plug..? I've seen some old John Deeres take 3 minutes up to my Kubota taking 10 seconds... What do the glows light for on your D188's?

 

[LJD]

The 12 volt electric heater used in the Case 188 and 207 air intake takes 30-40 seconds to heat up. It is hot air only. Rated at 450 watts and draws 38 amps. Needs to be hooked to a good relay or a high-amp switch. Some other make tractors use the same with a fuel line attached and it creates a fuel-half-ignited mist in the intake (some Fords, SAME, etc.).

You can buy a new heater for $20-$30 if you look around. This Website sells several for other make tractors that might fit. You'll have to check thread size. Here they are listed under "manifold heater" and "thermostart."

 

[gusbratz]

The older 188 had 4 intake heaters in the manifold. then they swithced to 1 big one near the top. it looks like a ceramic spring. I asked my very knowledgable local former case dealership if he could get me a new one and he said that after being used a lot they get weak and fall apart and ruin your engine and that i should just stick a bolt in the hole. made sense to me. I put a block heater on mine for when it is cold out instead. also the round copper plate in the bendix gets all arc'd up from 1000's of start cycles and doesn't conduct as good. so even with good battery and cables you may not be delivering enough current to the starter. i replaced my bendix (10$ from napa) and it starts like a different engine. I couldn't believe how fast it rolled over i was so used to it going slow. starts a lot better now. I never use ether. it is like a cocaine habit for your engine. once it gets a tast of that stuff it will always need it......

 

[Anonymous-0]

Your post about solenoid wear has me thinking also.. I have diesels that spin faster/though I'm unfamiliar with Case... Next warm stretch I think I'm going to get a second person with a HEAVY/commercial set of jumper cables & a good battery hook up right to the starter lug while I turn her over.. I'll let ya know how that works out....

 

[AJ.]

Test the voltage both sides of the solenoid,check the voltage on the main battery cable terminal on the solenoid and note the reading,now hit the start button and note that reading,if its lots lower there is an issue with the battery, connections,the cable or ground,if it much the same connect the meter to the out terminal of the solenoid and hit the start button again and see what it is,if the solenoid is good it will be near enough the same as it was with the second test,if it is lower the solenoid is not making good contact meaning the starter is not getting full power and will be slow cranking the engine.
AJ

 

[gusbratz]

that would be kind of hard because the bendix is on top of the starter and the copper bus that goes to the rotor comes out of the bottom of it. plus cranking the engine to pull the bendix in will cause a the voltage to drop to like 7v. maybe with 2 meters and some leads installed when everything is taken apart and a 2nd person towatch while you crank it.the bendix is only like 15$ down at napa, i would just change it.

 

[Duetz Fan]

True, $15+ or - spent would not change anyones lifestyle. I was in a NAPA a few days ago to stock up on oil filters. I prefer NAPA/WIX oil filters.. They have metal anti flowback valves/disks. Fram who has the best advertising campaign in the industry and likely the worst filters/some kind of fiberous anti flowback valve that lets the oil drain back into the crankcase after being parked a while/over the years I've had several Fram eqiupped engines knock on start up & problem was solved by putting on a NAPA filter... Anywho while @ NAPA I asked about a starter solenid & they wanted to sell me a whole starter. Granted I was in a middle of big city NAPA @ the time/had they had just a solenoid for $15 I woulda picked it up.. Butt...adding to this whole mix, the machine has been WELL maintained/looks to have had a starter and alternator change in it's past. The starter/solenoid is not original so I'm suspect the solenoid not old & OK but curious anyway/she really turns slow... The company finally sold the tractor ( to me ) after years of being a backup machine in the yard loading mulch & such as the tractor stopped charging and running lights/dash board gauges stopped working @ the same time. Sometimes as you bounce along lights/wipers & dash will pop on briefly leading me to suspect a ground issue in the dash or if I read the service manual correctly, there is a heavy duty relay in the dash somewhere & either the ground on the relay or the relay itself is failed... But that will have to waite for spring... I got into all that due to I'm interested in the starter solenoid but not too sold on the idea as the starter has been replaced at least once.. Either from age or the prolonged cranking the machine seems to require. As I write this, I just remembered a friend with a slow cranking/hard to start 35HP Kubota... After years of fighting with that, just before he traded it in due to the starting issue he pulled the starter planning to have it tested & found paint on the mounting surface likely from when the tractor engine was assembled when new... He cleaned the paint off & it made all the difference in the world starting/spinning and he still has/is now happy with the tractor.. I gotta add that to my list/clean the mounting surfaces on the starter... Also when it warms up again...