Case baler chain

[Phil Tibbetts]

The main drive chain on my case 200 baler got ripped apart beyond repair. Does anyone know how many drive links it is supposed to have? This is critical to timing the knotters. I have heard 83 and 84 links. don't want to wipe out a set of needles. 83 seems right to me but 1 link makes a difference. does anyone know the correct number? i got the parts book but it doesnt say.

 

[rrlund]

My head feels foggy. How would one more or less link in the chain change the timing? Wouldn't you have to have one more or less cog on one or the other sprocket to do that? Maybe it's just too early in the morning for me to get it through my head.

I almost hit the back button and didn't post this, but I need to understand I guess.

 

[Tom in TN]

Phil,

I don't have any experience with a Case baler but I do have a New Holland 273 square baler. I know for sure that the number of links on the knotter drive chain doesn't make any difference as to the timing. On my baler, that chain is a continuously running chain so you never know which links are actually going to drive the knotters. When, and which links are actually going to drive the knotters on any given bale, is a function of the length of the bale, not where the chain is in its rotation around the driving and driven gears.

Now having said that, my 273 doesn't have much latitude for adjusting the chain tension. A couple of links wouldn't make much difference, but there is only so much adjustment range on the tensioning pulley.

Good luck.

Tom in TN

 

[Moonlite37]

Yes the length is not important but the number of links between sprockets is.

 

[Eric in IL]

I have a 200 baler. That fact does not make me an expert because I also own a set of broken needles for it.

My owners manual has nothing about a specific length for any of the chains on the baler. Seems like that information would be there if it was critical to timing the needles.

I am sure there is a certain number of links needed in that chain so you will have the best use of the slot provided on the tensioner sprocket. I believe the condition and tension of that chain running on the plunger arm sprocket is highly important though. If it ever skips a tooth for whatever reason, you are out of time. That is why I run that chain fiddle string tight. Likewise the chain that connects the counter shaft to the knotters must not skip a tooth.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

(quoted from post at 06:52:03 08/16/22) Yes the length is not important but the number of links between sprockets is.

Correct. One link one way or the other changes the angle of one of the shafts by a few degrees, changing the timing.

There are instructions in the owner's manual for properly timing the knotters, plunger, and stuffer.

 

[Tom in TN]

Moonlite,

I'm not trying to be a know-it-all smart-alec because I certainly am not an expert on balers. But, just an observation, the number of links between the drive gear and the knotter clutch is a function of having set the timing properly, not a determinate of timing. What I'm saying is, you can't just count the number of links, put the chain onto the two pulleys, and expect the timing to be right. But you probably knew that.

Every time I have to set the timing on one of these balers, I have to get out the manual and follow it step by step. I can't just do it from memory.

Regards,

Tom in TN

 

[rrlund]

I guess I still don't get it. The idler is on the slack side of the chain, not the drive side isn't it? I still don't understand how having more or less slack on the return can change the timing. Changing it on the drive side I understand. Maybe a Case baler doesn't use an idler?

 

[Eric in IL]

rrlund, this baler uses two idlers on the chain from the plunger pitman. The one on the tight side of the chain is a fixed position idler. The one on the slack side of the chain is adjustable.

I'm on your side on this debacle so if we're wrong, at least there are two of us. lol

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

(quoted from post at 07:21:21 08/16/22) I guess I still don't get it. The idler is on the slack side of the chain, not the drive side isn't it? I still don't understand how having more or less slack on the return can change the timing. Changing it on the drive side I understand. Maybe a Case baler doesn't use an idler?

We're talking about changing it on the drive side. If you have the wrong number of links between the sprockets on the drive side, and you take up the slack with the idler on the slack side, you pull the works out of time.

Our NH 316 baler doesn't make the most even bales side to side, so we tried going through the timing. With everything positioned per the manual, the chain didn't fit on the sprockets. New chain, worn chain, didn't matter. One link either way put the timing off, so do you go long or go short, and what are the consequences? We just put it back the way it was to be safe and lived with it.

 

[rrlund]

I'm just picturing in my mind another set up that should have the same results. Let's say that you have two sprockets, one above the other to make it easy to see in your mind. Just to call it even, let's say that they're timed. The bottom one is the drive sprocket, the top one is the driven. The sprockets turn clockwise so the right hand side is pulling down straight. There's an idler on the left side to take up the slack as the return chain goes up to the driven sprocket again. There's an adjustable idler on that side that's slid in an inch to take up the slack. Now I build a bracket a foot back to the left and make a new chain that's twice as long as the original. I take out the connecting link, take off the old chain and put on the new one without moving the sprockets at all, and I put the new chain back over that new idler a foot behind the original. Now the chain is twice as long. As long as I didn't turn the sprockets at all while changing the chain, how did I change the timing by installing a chain that was twice as long? I'm missing something.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

(quoted from post at 09:42:04 08/16/22) I'm just picturing in my mind another set up that should have the same results. Let's say that you have two sprockets, one above the other to make it easy to see in your mind. Just to call it even, let's say that they're timed. The bottom one is the drive sprocket, the top one is the driven. The sprockets turn clockwise so the right hand side is pulling down straight. There's an idler on the left side to take up the slack as the return chain goes up to the driven sprocket again. There's an adjustable idler on that side that's slid in an inch to take up the slack. Now I build a bracket a foot back to the left and make a new chain that's twice as long as the original. I take out the connecting link, take off the old chain and put on the new one without moving the sprockets at all, and I put the new chain back over that new idler a foot behind the original. Now the chain is twice as long. As long as I didn't turn the sprockets at all while changing the chain, how did I change the timing by installing a chain that was twice as long? I'm missing something.

Get one too many links on the drive side, then pull it tight. This pulls the sprockets out of time.

 

[rrlund]

Ya it will, but as long as the extra link is on the return side and the sprockets are timed, a thousand extra links on the return
side wouldn't throw off the timing. As long as you don't turn them out of time or move them closer together or farther apart, it
wouldn't matter.

 

[caterpillar guy]

IF the sprockets are not turned after the chain is off the slack side would not matter how long it was. I would just put the chain on and turn it by hand till it cycled and see what happened it should work or stop by hand with out breaking the needles and then just adjust from there. A worn chain would seem like if this is so critical you would want to change them about every 2or3 years so the wear in the links didn't affect it. Fiddle string tight wears chains fast and would then let them be out of time by the wear in the links. Wears sprockets fast too.

 

[Phil Tibbetts]

Thanks for all the replies.
Got it fixed and it does have to be the right number of links which is 84. The main drive off the gear box drives a sprocket on a jack shaft which in turn drives the knotters and needles. I've had this baler for over 55 years so know it pretty well. I have set the timing many times over the years so I have that down pat. Just wanted to be sure I had the right drive chain. Sometimes it is better to ask than destroy something.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Make that three. There will always be the same number of pins between the sprockets on the taut side, whether it be 84 links or 175 feet of chain through a myriad of idlers.

 

[VACLee]

You are exactly right that the length doesn't affect the timing, only the number of links between the sprockets will. The length only matters when you try to tension it. I have had mine about 30 years and when I got it there wasn't a main drive chain on it. I bought a roll and cut it to fit. I apparently got it too long because I cannot get it as tight as it should be since there is a limited amount of adjustment in the idler. I thought when I get everything working, I would cut a couple links out of it. Well you know how that goes. I don't bale a lot, so it has been that way ever since. It has only taken up shed space for the last 15 years.