Case DC build

[Cabbage]

Well bought a toy today for the old man to pull. Gonna be a stock class tractor 3.5mph motors stuck so a rebuild is in the near future. Will 400 sleeves fit to get the 4.125 pistions? or can the stock ones be bored that far? Any ideas appreciated!

 

[NEcasepuller]

Post on the Case Forum you will get a better answer.

 

[mEl]

(quoted from post at 15:39:08 12/27/11) Well bought a toy today for the old man to pull. Gonna be a stock class tractor 3.5mph motors stuck so a rebuild is in the near future. Will 400 sleeves fit to get the 4.125 pistions? or can the stock ones be bored that far? Any ideas appreciated!

At the stock block dimensions the old M&W sleeve was very thin at the bottom so I would not try to get a 4.125 bore. No other sleeve will fit that block as machined. A bore job on the block and exterior machining on the proper sleeve will allow 4 .625 pistons to be used and with a good cam and high compression well over 100 HP at normal high idle can be attained. BUT, modifications to the rear main saddle to add support are vital to long block life. A properly built DC engine is a tough competitor in our area and our classes are a bit less restrictive than NATPA style pulling. mEl

 

[north puller]

I'm not saying that it cant be done, but with a stock stroke, that would only be 370 cubes. That tractor also only has a high idle of 1390 rpm. At 10% extra rpm, it barely turns more than a stock Massey, and at 20% extra rpm, it barely turns more than a stock farmall.

It seems to me that 400 plus cubes is typically needed for 100 hp in a tractor with more rpm.

Now we never said if we are talking 8:1 or 12:1 for compression, but if I called you on the phone to build me a motor, and you said 370 cubes with more than 100 hp, i would ask what you are smoking.

or am I just missing something?

 

[mEl]

(quoted from post at 09:31:39 12/28/11) I'm not saying that it cant be done, but with a stock stroke, that would only be 370 cubes. That tractor also only has a high idle of 1390 rpm. At 10% extra rpm, it barely turns more than a stock Massey, and at 20% extra rpm, it barely turns more than a stock farmall.

It seems to me that 400 plus cubes is typically needed for 100 hp in a tractor with more rpm.

Now we never said if we are talking 8:1 or 12:1 for compression, but if I called you on the phone to build me a motor, and you said 370 cubes with more than 100 hp, i would ask what you are smoking.

or am I just missing something?

No, I don't think you are missing anything, you seem to have understood everything I posted, just calling into question the accuracy of what I have posted as is your right. I am just giving you the results of the DC4 that I built for my cousin, it is as you stated a 370 inch DC with 5.5 x 4.625 bore. I use a piston (visible on his website) that I and Ray at Extreme tractor developed to use with a medium compression 5576A head. This head is way more open than a 5505 high compression head. We are better than 12:1 compression.The engine is zero decked so the head is right on the block.

My Cam is a Bullet grind by Sonny Daniels. My first and only dyno run was 120 HP at 1400 rpm on a reliable M&W P400, the 1400 rpm comes at the 620 rpm checkpoint on the the P400. The PTO was then removed for weight considerations. Anyone who pulls Central Penna will vouch for the power of this tractor.

You have every right to be sceptical as there are not to many DC's that are being built but I assure you that that I have never smoked even a legal product and don't know what beer tastes like and in the end if you put up stuff here you can't back up on the track you just end up looking stupid. I am lucky to have many friends whom I advise even outside the Case realm on this forum and any will vouch for my character and the iron that leaves our shop so I will not even defend that as I don't need to. I take no offense at your comments, in fact welcome them.

I hope you have a great New Year and that your pulling ventures are a sucess.

mEl

 

[Oliver 88 Puller]

Man, I wish we could have more adult conversations like this
one on this forum. A man casually asks how something is
possible, and the other man provides a respectful explanation
without getting defensive. I get tired of all the mud slinging
on here between folks. Thanks for the breath of fresh air
guys!

 

[mEl]

88,

Thank you, your comments are very much appreciated.
You and yours have a great New Years wish also from the Bennetts in NC Penna.

 

[CLIFF S]

What mEL Has Said about this Tractor is True!

I Was there when it was Dynoed and I also was the Person that Painted It!

I Have Pulled This Tractor Myself and it Pulls with The Best Large Cubed JD G,450,M,88 Etc in the 6 MPH Class Usualy the Top 3 of the Class!

It Also Runs 18.4x38 Dubble Cut Tires!

Its One of the Best Stock Stroked Tractors out There!

Come to Buffalo Valley New Years Day and watch for yourself or Check out there website later in the week i bet you will be Suprised!

Cliff S

 

[north puller]

You know, there still is an educational aspect to this site every once and a while. I was skeptical, and assumed that if it was at all possible, then it must have considerable compression. Seems more than I even thought! 120 hp is very impressive from those cubic inches. Obviously the parts manufacturer and the builder got every little detail bang on. I won't make it to buffalo valley - I don't think that I can run with those big dogs. Happy New Year.

 

[Cabbage]

Wow awesome guys! Mel what liners did you use for this? Will you be at Buffalo valley Sunday I was thinking about taking a ride out!

 

[mEl]

(quoted from post at 16:31:20 12/28/11) Wow awesome guys! Mel what liners did you use for this? Will you be at Buffalo valley Sunday I was thinking about taking a ride out!

I use any 504 liner for the Case big bore engines as I bore the block and then turn the outside to fit my bore dimensions , turn the o ring grooves in and install in typical wet design protocol.

I would indeed like to be there as we have made some updates to further enhance the DC4 and I would like to see it run and be there to tweak carb and timing if needed. I at least will not be there when the pull starts but could be there before it pulls. Our church usually lasts till a bit after 12 and run home and change and drive 30 miles will take a bit. We'll see. If there you will be able to pick the tractors out of the crowd. mEl

 

[jd b puller]

(quoted from post at 16:58:19 12/28/11) Man, I wish we could have more adult conversations like this
one on this forum. A man casually asks how something is
possible, and the other man provides a respectful explanation
without getting defensive. I get tired of all the mud slinging
on here between folks. Thanks for the breath of fresh air
guys!

You can look around for a long time and not find a man with as much knowledge and tact as mEL. You can count on him to give a thoughtful answer and it will normally be 100% ccrrect. I've worked with him on several motors and we've talked about some pretty interesting big stuff like the 600+ CI Case 400.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Dear north puller ,It bothers me that someone would doubt Mel and his sons ability to build a stock stroke DC engine with 370 cubes, that makes well over 120 horse now, you obviously don't know Mel's and sons knowledge of Case tractors and surely you have never seen this tractor run, please know that my dad owns this tractor and I have drove it many times so I maybe partial to this tractor and the builders of it, We welcome any challenger so if you need a schedule of the pulls that we attend I would be glad to send you one.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Hey,you case guys, I've gotta 51 DC antique puller, I'm wondering how hard is it to make a dry clutch out of a wet one? The book says it dont have a rear main seal, got any help?

 

[mEl]

We had ours dried up, We had to make a plate the shape of the bell housing and center it on the crank flange, the crank flange is not wide enough for a seal to run on so we had to relieve the rear of the block for a speedy sleeve to run and press a seal into the machined hole in the plate after machining it to a seal OD. It's real close there and the flywheel had to have material removed on the block side so the flywheel would not rub the plate. The drilling in the crank was then plugged and provision made to grease a homemade throwout bearing carrier as it is a brass bushing running directly on the clutch shaft. We had slight leakage but it was very adequate with a heavily sprung performance pressure plate and button clutch. The wet hand clutch is adequate for the HP most pullers need, it works well up into the mid hundred HP range. The foot clutch I would not even consider for much over stock HP. JMHO and some one will prove me wrong on that. mEl