440roadrunner
Member
Infrared is simply a wavelength of light/ heat, down towards the deep red/ invisible end of the spectrum.
Probably a better word is "radiant." Just about any electric heater that does not heat by using a fan or blower is a radiant heater.
Many radiant heaters heat by a COMBINATION of low frequency--deep red-- visible light and infrared. All incandescent light bulbs output a certain amount of infrared heat--that's why they are so inefficient as lamps---a large portion of the wattage you feed in is NOT outputted as light, but rather, heat. If you happen to want that heat, that's OK. If it's summertime, its a waste of power, and why the new compact flourescents have become so much better
All electric heaters are essentially the same efficiency, that is, so much power in gives so much heat out, minus the tiny amount---and it HAD BETTER be a tiny amount--that's wasted in the wiring.
Don't get caught up in the hype, the buzz words, etc, of false claims of efficiency.
While on this subject, I have friends and relatives that know Im an electrical engineer but when I tell them the cheapie Wally World electric resistance heater I just bought for $20 delivers about the same heat (BTU per Watt) as that fancy shmancy $300 Eden Pure or Amish Built unit they just purchased, THEY GET MAD AT ME AND/OR TELL ME IM CRAZY......... I guess if I just paid $300 Id swear up n down it puts out more heat then a $20 unit lol
Any way to convice them ? I figure let them die dumb and throw their money away to the Eden Pure Salesman, no skin off my nose.... I must admit theirs really throw a good amount of really hot feelin air out the spout.....
Keep warm yall, regardless if from a $300 or a $20 1500 watt unit. Gee you would have to feel warmer sittin in front of a $300 then only a $20 unit right?????????????
Ol John T (headed to Florida soon, its NOT cold here in Indiana, theres just less heat then in Florida)
Any way to convice them ? I figure let them die dumb and throw their money away to the Eden Pure Salesman, no skin off my nose.... I must admit theirs really throw a good amount of really hot feelin air out the spout.....
Keep warm yall, regardless if from a $300 or a $20 1500 watt unit. Gee you would have to feel warmer sittin in front of a $300 then only a $20 unit right?????????????
Ol John T (headed to Florida soon, its NOT cold here in Indiana, theres just less heat then in Florida)
With some heaters, the infrared makes a big difference. I don't know about your particular heater. It's not about total heat made, it's more about where it goes and how it's used.
We've got non-vented propane heaters that come standard and infrared models. Both have the same BTU output. But, big difference. Standard heats all the air generally. If you sit there, you gradually get warmed as the entire room warms. Infrared targets objects nearby. So, if you're sitting near an infrared heater, you get warmed almost instantly, long before the air around you gets warm.
Anybody that says it cannot happen has obviously never used one.
We've got non-vented propane heaters that come standard and infrared models. Both have the same BTU output. But, big difference. Standard heats all the air generally. If you sit there, you gradually get warmed as the entire room warms. Infrared targets objects nearby. So, if you're sitting near an infrared heater, you get warmed almost instantly, long before the air around you gets warm.
Anybody that says it cannot happen has obviously never used one.
Bill in IL
Well-known Member
I know exactly what you mean about the eden pure heaters. I deal with plenty of electricity to know that a watt is a watt no matter how its consumed.
My dad who is 300 miles north bought one last year and loves it. I must say it does work nicely and he uses it to supplement the back half of the house. I have seen it work and work well in his case now I just don't understand how it works so well.
My dad who is 300 miles north bought one last year and loves it. I must say it does work nicely and he uses it to supplement the back half of the house. I have seen it work and work well in his case now I just don't understand how it works so well.
For sure, if you stand right in the path of a similar type $300 heater or a $20 heater your body/target is going to be warmed versus if youre in the opposite side of the room and have to wait for the room air to come up to temperature, still the Eden Pure heater or the Wally World heater are going to yield the same 3.41 BTU per watt (heat versus energy consumed) I reckon.......But I still cant convince my neighbors of that after they spent all those big bucks lol
Yall keep warm now
John T
Yall keep warm now
John T
As JDemaris said about the propane heaters, the same is true with electric.
I've used both types of electric heaters and they both have their uses.
I bought a ceramic heater when they first came out. It was very small and put out a lot of heat for its size and was good for not taking up much space in a room. It would heat the same area as a common convection type heater, but with a fraction of the size. And as with all convection type heaters you are heating the air in the room.
I like to use an infrared type heater in my tin barn/shop because there's no way I can heat the entire shop, so I just have an infrared heater turned toward me as I work. As JDamaris said, when you turn the heater toward you, you can almost feel the heat instantly, even several feet away. The one I particularly like to use in the shop is a tall dual element quartz heater that I have.
If I was just using one to keep a room heated up to temperature, I would probably just use a ceramic or other type convection heater.
Infrared heaters will heat a room too, but if you're sitting too close to it you will get too hot. And you have to be more careful about objects being too close.
Ronnie
I've used both types of electric heaters and they both have their uses.
I bought a ceramic heater when they first came out. It was very small and put out a lot of heat for its size and was good for not taking up much space in a room. It would heat the same area as a common convection type heater, but with a fraction of the size. And as with all convection type heaters you are heating the air in the room.
I like to use an infrared type heater in my tin barn/shop because there's no way I can heat the entire shop, so I just have an infrared heater turned toward me as I work. As JDamaris said, when you turn the heater toward you, you can almost feel the heat instantly, even several feet away. The one I particularly like to use in the shop is a tall dual element quartz heater that I have.
If I was just using one to keep a room heated up to temperature, I would probably just use a ceramic or other type convection heater.
Infrared heaters will heat a room too, but if you're sitting too close to it you will get too hot. And you have to be more careful about objects being too close.
Ronnie
Stan in Oly, WA
Well-known Member
Hi John,
When I'm confronted with a discussion of a subject that I have no background in, like fluid mechanics, for instance, I have no idea what's being said but I don't worry about it because I know that you can't know everything. There are a few subjects that I understand thoroughly and well.
Reading user comments about Eden Pure heaters on another site makes me feel that that's the way most people must feel about everything except for sports, tv programs, and what kind of pizza they like. It's scary to think that those people raise kids and may vote.
Enjoy yourself in Florida,
Stan
When I'm confronted with a discussion of a subject that I have no background in, like fluid mechanics, for instance, I have no idea what's being said but I don't worry about it because I know that you can't know everything. There are a few subjects that I understand thoroughly and well.
Reading user comments about Eden Pure heaters on another site makes me feel that that's the way most people must feel about everything except for sports, tv programs, and what kind of pizza they like. It's scary to think that those people raise kids and may vote.
Enjoy yourself in Florida,
Stan
Cameron Smith
Member
For the engineers, my 50 yr. old 4800 watt 220 volt milkroom heater still works like the day I got it. Is there any advantage to getting a new one(more efficient?)or just keep the old one going? Thanks
440roadrunner
Member
You might re--read some of the posts here. There is no such thing as a "more efficient" electric heater. The only real difference is between such things as these "radiators" (low temp radiant/ convection), fan units like your milkhouse, and hi--temp radiant heaters. In some cases the hi temp radiant have advantages, and in some cases they are outright dangerous.
For example, I have a VERY small "bedroom" that I use as my radio room, and use a small milkhouse style heater for auxiliary heat--under the desk. A radiant heater there would be dangerous--cooking my pants legs or burning the hair off my legs.
SO ONE LAST TIME. "So many" watts produces "so many" BTU's of heat, period. As stated above, a KW of power produces 3400 BTU's.
I dont see any new one as "more efficient" if the new one still produces 3.41 BTU/Watt like the old one probably did if thats what you consider efficiency???? Provided keeping the old one going isnt costing an arm and a leg nor is it overly burdensome and its maintained and kept in good working order I SEE NO REASON TO BUY A NEW ONE...
Of course, as discussed below, if you require instant warmth and youre gonna be standing in front of it versus having to wait until the entire room air temperature rises, the type of heater may become more important, but still if it draws 4800 watts REGARDLESS OF TYPE, your electric meter is still gonna spin the same speed as with the old 4800 watt unit .......
John T
Of course, as discussed below, if you require instant warmth and youre gonna be standing in front of it versus having to wait until the entire room air temperature rises, the type of heater may become more important, but still if it draws 4800 watts REGARDLESS OF TYPE, your electric meter is still gonna spin the same speed as with the old 4800 watt unit .......
John T
I don't think anyone has disagreed with what you said. But, the original poster didn't ask about efficiency. He asked if there is a difference, and yes there is.
A good infrared heater can heat a distant object without heating all the air in-between. That makes no difference if you're trying to heat a entire room. But, it can make a big difference if you're standing there working 5-10 feet away and want some quick heat on yourself.
And, especially when you do go such a room for a short period of time, and run the heater low enough just to heat yourself, less energy can be used.
No amount of quoted, or misquoted science will indicate different.
Once prime example is an infrared wall heater we have in big living room. When we are sitting along side of it 10 feet away, we can run it on the lowest setting at get just a warm then the previous radiant heater when it was run on full-heat and using more fuel. That because it had to get the entire room warm before we started to feel it.
A good infrared heater can heat a distant object without heating all the air in-between. That makes no difference if you're trying to heat a entire room. But, it can make a big difference if you're standing there working 5-10 feet away and want some quick heat on yourself.
And, especially when you do go such a room for a short period of time, and run the heater low enough just to heat yourself, less energy can be used.
No amount of quoted, or misquoted science will indicate different.
Once prime example is an infrared wall heater we have in big living room. When we are sitting along side of it 10 feet away, we can run it on the lowest setting at get just a warm then the previous radiant heater when it was run on full-heat and using more fuel. That because it had to get the entire room warm before we started to feel it.
I guess I didn"t make myself clear. Everybody has gone to explaining watts and btus.
I"m trying to learn the way to identify an infrared heating tube. Does the tube have any visable wire in it? If not what causes the resistance? Will I find one in a toaster oven or the like? Or only in a small fanless heater? What about the old time heaters that were shaped like a shell had a tapered screw-in ceramic element in the center with coiled wire around the ceramic holder. I want to use the tubes for a paint remover tool, and the parts list calls for infrared tubes.
BY the way, I think the Amish heater with genuine cherry mantle is a rip off.
I"m trying to learn the way to identify an infrared heating tube. Does the tube have any visable wire in it? If not what causes the resistance? Will I find one in a toaster oven or the like? Or only in a small fanless heater? What about the old time heaters that were shaped like a shell had a tapered screw-in ceramic element in the center with coiled wire around the ceramic holder. I want to use the tubes for a paint remover tool, and the parts list calls for infrared tubes.
BY the way, I think the Amish heater with genuine cherry mantle is a rip off.
Fostoria has a manual with some good info on infrared stuff here:
(Dial-up connections beware....it's 6+mb)
http://www.infraredheaters.com/pdfs/fostoria electric infrared heating manual.pdf
As for the much-hyped efficiency of the Eden Pure and Sun Heat style heaters, what I find interesting is the way they intentionally confuse people. In this thread, some are posting that infrared heat "feels" different and such....and it does. But look at the miracle heater company websites or read their ads. Their infrared lamps or tubes aren't directing their output out at you, instead they're using the infrared elements to heat up a heat exchanger of one kind or another. Then a blower fan directs airflow across that heat exchanger and blows the [i:8b5e099d55]warmed air[/i:8b5e099d55] out. The only thing that's receiving any direct infrared heat.....is the heat exchanger itself.
Read the first couple of paragraphs in the Fostoria infrared heating manual. It states, (among other things), that infrared travels in straight lines outward from the source to warm you. Well, in the miracle heaters....it can't. It also says that infrared heats objects....and not the air. In the miracle heaters, this is true. The infrared output DOES heat an object....it's the heat exchanger. THEN, the blower fan moves air across that heat exchanger, which in turn warms the AIR....and sends it on its way. It sounds remarkably similar to the way "normal" space heaters work.
A while back, I emailed one of the companies because their website had an icon you could click to view the .pdf results of a "lab efficiency study". The reason I emailed them, was because the lab study was a complete joke. There was nothing in it that addressed "efficiency", all it was was "data" pertaining to how fast one of the heaters warmed up a certain cubic foot space. Not only was the "efficiency study" laughable, but the heater company had to farm it out to a lab in Asia.
I'm thinking they really didn't count on anyone clicking on the link and calling their bluff.....
(Dial-up connections beware....it's 6+mb)
http://www.infraredheaters.com/pdfs/fostoria electric infrared heating manual.pdf
As for the much-hyped efficiency of the Eden Pure and Sun Heat style heaters, what I find interesting is the way they intentionally confuse people. In this thread, some are posting that infrared heat "feels" different and such....and it does. But look at the miracle heater company websites or read their ads. Their infrared lamps or tubes aren't directing their output out at you, instead they're using the infrared elements to heat up a heat exchanger of one kind or another. Then a blower fan directs airflow across that heat exchanger and blows the [i:8b5e099d55]warmed air[/i:8b5e099d55] out. The only thing that's receiving any direct infrared heat.....is the heat exchanger itself.
Read the first couple of paragraphs in the Fostoria infrared heating manual. It states, (among other things), that infrared travels in straight lines outward from the source to warm you. Well, in the miracle heaters....it can't. It also says that infrared heats objects....and not the air. In the miracle heaters, this is true. The infrared output DOES heat an object....it's the heat exchanger. THEN, the blower fan moves air across that heat exchanger, which in turn warms the AIR....and sends it on its way. It sounds remarkably similar to the way "normal" space heaters work.
A while back, I emailed one of the companies because their website had an icon you could click to view the .pdf results of a "lab efficiency study". The reason I emailed them, was because the lab study was a complete joke. There was nothing in it that addressed "efficiency", all it was was "data" pertaining to how fast one of the heaters warmed up a certain cubic foot space. Not only was the "efficiency study" laughable, but the heater company had to farm it out to a lab in Asia.
I'm thinking they really didn't count on anyone clicking on the link and calling their bluff.....
440roadrunner
Member
Most of what you describe uses what is called nichrome wire---resistive wire. So do clothes dryers, and forced air furnaces.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Many older home have # 14 wire feeding outlets.This limits the heaters to 1300 watts.Many outlets cant handle the current drain of 15 amps.Ive taken some apart and found little metal to metal contact.You need a 20 amp rated outlet and # 12 wire to use an electric heater.An elderly friend bought a quartz heater.He asked me to check the outlet before he used it .I found the outlet in his bedroom was fed with a piece of zip cord from a bathroom outlet.I told him he needed a #12 wire with a 20 amp circuit breaker.The house was old and had some questionable wiring.
Brian43214
New User
when that 20 dollar heater explodes after 6 months and burns down your house, let us know how well your investment turned out 
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