Char Lyn 207 series

[jtbartlett]

I have a nice 1953 Super M that I'm adding a 207 series Char Lyn torque generator for power steering. It's a wide front end with live hydraulics so I'm using a priority valve to feed the steering. The torque generator I'm using is second hand but was told to be a working unit. I have everything plumbed in and reassembled. I have flow through the priority valve to remote hydraulic valves -loader and back blade which work just fine. I have flow through the torque generator which I've checked by removing both the feed line and the return line - both have fluid so the circuit is ok. The problem I have is that the torque generator doesn't move the output side. My 'lock to lock' on the steering wheel is now 180 degrees instead of full rotation like it used to be. There is no fluid leaking at the torque generator so the seals seem fine.

Ive never seen a power steering setup so I'm not working from my own experience. When these units fail, how do they do it? the ratio from the input side is 1 to 1 for 180 degrees of steering wheel movement until it locks. I added an inline filter on the return line. Is it too restrictive? I have fluid after the filer so it would seem not to be.

If I need to rebuild this where is a good place to send it? I'm not that keen on doing it myself. Unfortunately the output steering shaft has been cut to length so I'm married to this unit, or a similar replacement, which, at the prices I've seen would be very expensive.

Sorry for the long post but thanks in advance for and help. This was given to me by my Dad so the tractor is staying and I need to figure this out.

 

[Destroked 450]

I'm not familiar with torque generators but am familiar with Char Lyn orbital motors
2 questions come to mind
Is it installed correctly
Is it plumbed correctly
The hose connection is closer to one end than the other, that end should be connected to the shaft going to the steering wheel
Looking at the steering wheel end with the connections straight up the the fitting on the right should be the pressure side with a hose coming from the pump, left side fitting is return

 

[jtbartlett]

Yeah, it's installed and plumbed
correctly. The out on the torque
generator is the return to tank. Should
it rotate 360 degrees is guess is my
dilema. I believe it should but it stops
hard at 180 degree steering wheel. There
is no hydraulic moment of the output side
at all, only movement is directly from
steering wheel.

 

[jtbartlett]

 

[used red MN]

As D..450 has pointed out double check the fluid
connections to make sure the flow is coming into the unit
correctly. If it is mounted as they normally are in a modified
gauge support plate I doubt it could be installed wrong or it
would be butt ugly sticking out rearward between the
gauges and the hood would have to be all hacked up to fit.
Seems when folks have hooked the flow up backwards to
them the action is reported as jerky and rotation of the
wheel bounces back against the operators turning
resistance, if that makes sense. Never heard of it being
reported as 180 degree as you have. To understand better
you say you turn the wheel a half turn and by doing this the
shaft to the steering box makes multiple turns and actually
steers the tires full left and full right? No, expert but I think
the internals of the unit are all clocked 1 to 1. I would try it
without the filter in there as well, but if it is reacting as I
described above I would say it has been assembled wrong
or it is the wrong unit. Some equipment such as some road
graders used steering as you have described. Which leads
me to the question of where you found the 207 series
number? Where did you get the unit, what do you know
about it? I am attaching a document that comes from
Midwest Power Steering in MO the company I worked with
when I resealed the unit on my M. In my case I only
removed the end caps and replaced the quad rings that
sealed the input and output shafts and all has been good. If
you look at the assembly procedure you can see there is
some definite possibility for incorrect assembly if you do
not have the proper instructions. If none of this helps I
would suggest to web search Midwest and give them a call.
Eaton torque gen. Doc.

Edit: The light bulb just turned on...does the unit only allow a half turn of motion? Did you find this to be true when installing it? If you jack it up so the front wheels are off the ground is this how it reacts? If so something is wrong in the unit.


This post was edited by used red MN on 06/06/2021 at 10:58 am.

 

[jtbartlett]

The steering wheel without the torque generator installed moved a full 540 degrees lock to lock and the front wheels would turn to full extension. With the char lyn torque generator installed, I get 180 degree steering wheel rotation and the front wheels love maybe 5 degrees, barely off center. The plate on top says 207 1015 001 which I believe is correct for the m series. I don't know if anyone has been into the unit or not, it was bought as a working unit but maybe that's not the case. Who rebuilds these?

 

[used red MN]

Midwest may rebuild them, they do carry rebuilt units in a price range of $550 - $1200, see link. The 207 series is not listed there, they may have them just not listed or one they show is a suitable replacement. There is contact info there as well. In the remote chance you are in MN around the twin cities I would consider helping you disassemble it to try to figure out what may be the problem, very likely assemble wrong. I suppose one other important item would be to see if the priority valve is supplying pressure along with the flow. Does it seem to labor the hydraulics when you try to turn it? What if you dead end a loader cylinder, does it react differently then? You probably need to tee in a 2000 psi pressure gauge in the steering supply line. I have no idea what the pressure should be wild guess 800-1200 psi. And something in the toque generator has to activate to require pressure to tell if the priority valve is doing its job. This is strictly at your own risk, if it was mine I would put a valve rated for the pressure on the supply line to the TG with the gauge Teed in before it and direct the flow in a bucket. Start it and pinch down the flow with the valve to see what kind of pressure and flow is coming to it. As for an actual required pressure I would check with Midwest. My tractor has a separate PS pump. Which leads to another point, you may not like the slower response of your loader with the steering on there operating off the live hydraulics, I think they say 3 - 4 GPM go to the TG, I think the live pumps are rated at 12 GPM.
MPS link

 

[Fritz Maurer]

I read these posts 20 times and I cant see it so Im
just gonna throw it out there: with torque generator
installed, and engine off , can you steer the tractor
normally, that is , manually?

 

[D Slater]

When shaft from steering wheel is turned the unit should keep turning 360 degrees or more until the steering stop is contacted. If
not, disconnect the shaft from output end and see if unit turns the output end around and around in both directions . If it does make sure the worm shaft will turn wheels from
stop to stop. If front is free you must have a problem in the unit. If someone had it apart it may not be set right. You do have return line from unit going to a place with no pressure?

 

[jtbartlett]

No. With the torque generator installed I cannot turn the steering wheel more than a half-turn, 180 degrees.

 

[Fritz Maurer]

Something is wrong internally with that thing. Gonna have to open it up to see what it is. I know you dont want to do that but there is a nice exploded view of you google it. Or take it back to whoever you bought it from.

 

[jtbartlett]

I have the return line plumbed in a tee with the return from auxiliary valves and priority valve return. I think the problem is in the torque generator.

 

[jtbartlett]

Ahaaa! I found the problem. I removed the filter from the return line to the tank and everything turns as it should. The torque gerenator was getting bound by the hydraulics. Thanks for the help getting there.