Charging problem

[Clint(oh)]

I have an 801 power master 6 volt PG that isn't charging. I have checked with a digital voltage meter with the engine running and I have 7+ volts at the generator as well as the regulator. No change above 6.15 volts at the battery and the engine dies once the battery is disconnected. Any ideas, any other place I should look? I have thought about replacing the wiring harness as it seems to have the original still on it.

 

[Bern]

I have an 801 power master 6 volt PG that isn't charging. I have checked with a digital voltage meter with the engine running and I have 7+ volts at the generator as well as the regulator. No change above 6.15 volts at the battery and the engine dies once the battery is disconnected. Any ideas, any other place I should look? I have thought about replacing the wiring harness as it seems to have the original still on it.

If you have 7 volts at the genny and only 6 at the battery you either have a cutout relay in the regulator that isn't closing or else something is wrong with the external wiring. If you have 7 volts at the B terminal of the regulator then the cutout relay is fine and the problem must be in the external wiring.

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley RIP]

I have an 801 power master 6 volt PG that isn't charging. I have checked with a digital voltage meter with the engine running and I have 7+ volts at the generator as well as the regulator. No change above 6.15 volts at the battery and the engine dies once the battery is disconnected. Any ideas, any other place I should look? I have thought about replacing the wiring harness as it seems to have the original still on it.

I have an 801 power master 6 volt PG that isn't charging. I have checked with a digital voltage meter with the engine running and I have 7+ volts at the generator as well as the regulator. No change above 6.15 volts at the battery and the engine dies once the battery is disconnected. Any ideas, any other place I should look? I have thought about replacing the wiring harness as it seems to have the original still on it.

HiYa Clint-
"....the engine dies once the battery is disconnected..."this tells me your wiring is mucked up somewhere in the system as tractor is running straight off battery power. 1st is do you have the belt tensioner on your GEN? Without proper fan belt tension you will never charge the battery. Get battery tested at a shop. Avoid swapping out parts willy-nilly til proof old is bad. Next, hold off on a new harness but go thru current entire wiring and verify system is correct. Having a 6V battery does not mean the system is wired correctly for the 6V POS GRN setup. A digital VOM will give false readings if engine is running so toss it. What and where are you testing at anyway? Got the 3-WIRE GEN and VR wired right? Got the 3-Wire Starter Motor with the RELAY? What does the IGN CHARGE LAMP show at start up? Lights? Disconnect for now.

Tim Daley (MI)

 

[Hemmjo]

Tim, I have to disagree with some of that advise.

1. It starts and runs with the battery. The battery is not the problem.

2. A DVM is just fine for this application. The refresh rate is plenty quick enough to capture close enough voltages. Might be off by a tenth or two, but not enough to warrant tossing it out.

Clint, you do need to check the wiring. The gen is working some or you would not get 7v any place.

Has this tractor functioned properly in the past?

Have you changed any thing recently?

It YES to the 1st and NO to the 2nd, I suspect a broken wire or corroded connection. Or perhaps rodent damage. OR bad voltage regulator.

Keep us posted.

 

[Bern]

2. A DVM is just fine for this application. The refresh rate is plenty quick enough to capture close enough voltages. Might be off by a tenth or two, but not enough to warrant tossing it out.

I agree 100% with point #2.

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley RIP]

I have an 801 power master 6 volt PG that isn't charging. I have checked with a digital voltage meter with the engine running and I have 7+ volts at the generator as well as the regulator. No change above 6.15 volts at the battery and the engine dies once the battery is disconnected. Any ideas, any other place I should look? I have thought about replacing the wiring harness as it seems to have the original still on it.

FYI Clint:
Your GEN works by charging thru AMPERES, it ain't the volts. Ever see "APOLLO 13"? MOTOR TEST the GEN to start with or take it to a local ALT/GEN shop to do. Might need an AMMETER as '01 Series never had one. Again I ask, when you first start the engine, what does the dash IGN CHARGE IDIOT LAMP show? It should come ON for a few minutes then OFF when up to charging rate. Many start probing their VOM without a clue on what they are doing or where to look or what to look for. A 6.1 VDC battery is weak. take it to your shop as well and test it under load on their machine. If battery is not kept on a float charger when tractor is idle, it loses effectiveness within a week. Your basic trickle charger connected won't do anything. If battery is dead and won't sustain a full charge under load, time to replace it. Get a new, good brand (DEKA INTERSTATE DURACELL EXIDE, EAST-PENN) and leave the bargain house brands at tsc and wally world. Check date code when buying new. Cheap batteries can be junk out the door and tend to have 2 years or less lifespans. Also, a 6V battery does not mean the entire wiring system is correct so go thru to verify. Disconnect lights. Often lights are wired incorrectly as well and can cause shorts. Can reconnect once root cause problem is solved. Start over with this.

Tim Daley (MI)

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley RIP]

Tim, I have to disagree with some of that advise.

1. It starts and runs with the battery. The battery is not the problem.

2. A DVM is just fine for this application. The refresh rate is plenty quick enough to capture close enough voltages. Might be off by a tenth or two, but not enough to warrant tossing it out.

Clint, you do need to check the wiring. The gen is working some or you would not get 7v any place.

Has this tractor functioned properly in the past?

Have you changed any thing recently?

It YES to the 1st and NO to the 2nd, I suspect a broken wire or corroded connection. Or perhaps rodent damage. OR bad voltage regulator.

Point taken

I agree 100% with point #2.

OK - fair enough, sir. I know on my N's I need an analog VOM with engine running as too much static interference will give false readings. Also as I say, it ain't the volts anyway -GENS work by charging the AMPS. Incorrect Wiring is #1 root cause problem with non-starting. Also he hasn't answered if he has the FAN BELT TENSIONER BRACKET attached and tension on belt working right? The #2 problem is guys fail to have a belt tensioner regardless if using the GEN or an ALT. Apollo 13 - "...it isn't the volts, it's the amps. Everything depends on the AMPS. Without 12 AMPS they can't operate anything..."

Kind Regards Bern
Tim Daley (MI)

 

[Sean in PA]

Point taken

OK - fair enough, sir. I know on my N's I need an analog VOM with engine running as too much static interference will give false readings. Also as I say, it ain't the volts anyway -GENS work by charging the AMPS. Incorrect Wiring is #1 root cause problem with non-starting. Also he hasn't answered if he has the FAN BELT TENSIONER BRACKET attached and tension on belt working right? The #2 problem is guys fail to have a belt tensioner regardless if using the GEN or an ALT. Apollo 13 - "...it isn't the volts, it's the amps. Everything depends on the AMPS. Without 12 AMPS they can't operate anything..."

Kind Regards Bern
Tim Daley (MI)

Also as I say, it ain't the volts anyway -GENS work by charging the AMPS.

Charge is volts. Amps is current. Any battery charging system uses amps to add charge to the battery's voltage. You need both the proper voltage and current to charge a battery. If the voltage being applied to the battery is not higher than the voltage of the battery, then no current will flow and the battery charge will not increase. The voltage difference between the charging system and the battery is the driving force that causes the current to flow to be able to build the charge.

 

[Sean in PA]

FYI Clint:
Your GEN works by charging thru AMPERES, it ain't the volts. Ever see "APOLLO 13"? MOTOR TEST the GEN to start with or take it to a local ALT/GEN shop to do. Might need an AMMETER as '01 Series never had one. Again I ask, when you first start the engine, what does the dash IGN CHARGE IDIOT LAMP show? It should come ON for a few minutes then OFF when up to charging rate. Many start probing their VOM without a clue on what they are doing or where to look or what to look for. A 6.1 VDC battery is weak. take it to your shop as well and test it under load on their machine. If battery is not kept on a float charger when tractor is idle, it loses effectiveness within a week. Your basic trickle charger connected won't do anything. If battery is dead and won't sustain a full charge under load, time to replace it. Get a new, good brand (DEKA INTERSTATE DURACELL EXIDE, EAST-PENN) and leave the bargain house brands at tsc and wally world. Check date code when buying new. Cheap batteries can be junk out the door and tend to have 2 years or less lifespans. Also, a 6V battery does not mean the entire wiring system is correct so go thru to verify. Disconnect lights. Often lights are wired incorrectly as well and can cause shorts. Can reconnect once root cause problem is solved. Start over with this.

Tim Daley (MI)

Tim, see my reply to your post just above this one.

 

[Jim.ME]

Charge is volts. Amps is current. Any battery charging system uses amps to add charge to the battery's voltage. You need both the proper voltage and current to charge a battery. If the voltage being applied to the battery is not higher than the voltage of the battery, then no current will flow and the battery charge will not increase. The voltage difference between the charging system and the battery is the driving force that causes the current to flow to be able to build the charge.

Agree with Sean.

 

[Hemmjo]

Point taken

OK - fair enough, sir. I know on my N's I need an analog VOM with engine running as too much static interference will give false readings. Also as I say, it ain't the volts anyway -GENS work by charging the AMPS. Incorrect Wiring is #1 root cause problem with non-starting. Also he hasn't answered if he has the FAN BELT TENSIONER BRACKET attached and tension on belt working right? The #2 problem is guys fail to have a belt tensioner regardless if using the GEN or an ALT. Apollo 13 - "...it isn't the volts, it's the amps. Everything depends on the AMPS. Without 12 AMPS they can't operate anything..."

Kind Regards Bern
Tim Daley (MI)

You cannot push any AMPS through a circuit or into a battery without sufficient VOLTAGE. They work together. Volts is a Force, Amps is a "volume". A volt meter on the dash in place of an amp meter it a much better to monitor your charging system.

 

[sotxbill]

It looks like... the problem is at the VR or wiring at that point... have you cleaned the contacts of the VR??? is the wire from the VR to the battery bad?? Stay with what we know... And yes,, with solid core spark plug wires, many dvms will pick up stray pulses and be nearly useless. I take the both leads of the voltmeter and twist them around each other to help stop the meter from picking up the spark plug pulses. Also keeping the meter leads away from the distribitor, coil and spark plug wires will help prevent the induction of the spark pulses. NEW spark plug wires will usually eliminate the pulses.

 

[Btzj02]

I have an 801 power master 6 volt PG that isn't charging. I have checked with a digital voltage meter with the engine running and I have 7+ volts at the generator as well as the regulator. No change above 6.15 volts at the battery and the engine dies once the battery is disconnected. Any ideas, any other place I should look? I have thought about replacing the wiring harness as it seems to have the original still on it.

Volt readings and amp readings are all good when diagnosing a problem but may I also suggest making a pigtail long enough to reach from the gen to the bat. Use an old piece of 10 gauge wire and put an alligator clip on each end. Sometimes bypassing one part of a circuit at a time is invaluable for trouble shooting.

I forgot to add: there is information out there incorrectly showing how to wire an amp meter on these Ford tractors. One wiring method simply measures the gen/alt output, meaning the gage only reads zero to +amps. The correct wiring method shows the amp meter wired such that the meter is a net amp meter that reads gen/alt output - tractor load. This amp meter wiring method reads negative if power is draining the battery and positive if the battery is being charged. This second, correct wiring method is a lot more helpful when diagnosing a problem.

 

[Clint(oh)]

So today I bypassed the field terminal at the VR and the charging rate increased and the tractor ran with the battery cable DC'd. Even though it is a brand-new VR it appears to me to be faulty.

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley RIP]

I have an 801 power master 6 volt PG that isn't charging. I have checked with a digital voltage meter with the engine running and I have 7+ volts at the generator as well as the regulator. No change above 6.15 volts at the battery and the engine dies once the battery is disconnected. Any ideas, any other place I should look? I have thought about replacing the wiring harness as it seems to have the original still on it.

Motor test the generator. You need an AMMETER. Don't rip the VR off yet. Or take all to a good shop and they will test it all.

Tim Daley (MI)

 

[JMOR]

So today I bypassed the field terminal at the VR and the charging rate increased and the tractor ran with the battery cable DC'd. Even though it is a brand-new VR it appears to me to be faulty.

"bypassed the field terminal". What does that mean? please elaborate.

 

[Btzj02]

So today I bypassed the field terminal at the VR and the charging rate increased and the tractor ran with the battery cable DC'd. Even though it is a brand-new VR it appears to me to be faulty.

Reconnect the VR and tap it with a small wrench or screw driver. I fought a bad, (new), VR for months. Tapping the VR did get the contacts to operate but I eventually lost my patience and bought a new US made VR. I know others may chip in but $39 is not going to get you a quality VR.

 

[Clint(oh)]

"bypassed the field terminal". What does that mean? please elaborate.

Jumper wire from the armature the battery.

 

[Clint(oh)]

Reconnect the VR and tap it with a small wrench or screw driver. I fought a bad, (new), VR for months. Tapping the VR did get the contacts to operate but I eventually lost my patience and bought a new US made VR. I know others may chip in but $39 is not going to get you a quality VR.

I would like to know where you found an American made VR?

 

[Btzj02]

I would like to know where you found an American made VR?