Choices...Ferguson to-20 or ford 8n...which is better?

[K.Campbell]

I have a chance to buy a Ferguson to-20, it will be a project, it's stripped completely down, with only the complete engine and running gears assembled. Its a complete tractor...just needs assembled. The fella passed away while it he was redoing the tractor, he had it for many years and was gonna give it a paint job. He purchased a complete new steering unit for it among other things. I'm not afraid of a project...it comes with a manual and all nuts and bolts. Sheet metal is really nice, no dents all original lights and still a 6 volt system. Tires are "ok". ..
So, here's my choice..buy this tractor, fix it and keep it..or sell it and keep my 8n..
I know this is an 8n forum, but with an open mind, when both tractors are assembled and in running order, which one is better?

 

[R Geiger]

You need at least two tractors, they both have their good points. Keep both og them!

 

[HCooke]

Never owned a Fergie, but from what I have read - no position control on the three point on a TO20. Also parts are harder to
find. Also, I personally would never buy a basket case. I might take one for free tho.

 

[Lester Isby]

Myself I would keep them both, one can't have too many tractors.

 

[Dean]

8N has position control. TO-20 does not.

Enough said.

Dean

 

[Dan S (NY)]

I have seen it said many times over the years that 'Parts are harder to find' for Ferguson's. I have always wondered which parts you had trouble finding? I'm just curious. I have had a TO20 for 17 years and haven't had any trouble finding the parts I need to keep it going.

Dan

 

[Ultradog MN]

Skip the TO 20s and 30s. If you want a
Ferguson look for a TO 35.

 

[Caryc]

I've had my 8N with FEL for over ten years now. It's been a great tractor. A guy up the street from me just acquired a MF. Seeing it from a distance I thought it was an 8N. So I stopped to ask him about it. It was a MF202 Workbull with FEL. This is the industrial version of the MF35. Making a long story short I got it at a very good price. The 3 point didn't work on it. Just removing the side inspection plate and gently prying some stuck linkage loose fixed it.

Anyway, it's a whole lot more tractor than the 8N. It has a four cylinder OHV gas engine and power steering. It also has a three speed trans with a high low gear, making it a six speed. It has a lot more power than the 8N. I paid less for it than the 8N.

But I still love the old 8N. It's now my dedicated mowing tractor. The mower never comes off of it. The MF202 does all the hard work now.

Like someone said, I would at least try to find a MF35 or better.

 

[K.Campbell]

(quoted from post at 07:58:57 03/30/18) 8N has position control. TO-20 does not.



Dean

So that means with no position control...the three point is either all the way up or all the way down?

 

[Caryc]

(quoted from post at 10:43:43 03/30/18)

(quoted from post at 07:58:57 03/30/18) 8N has position control. TO-20 does not.



Dean

So that means with no position control...the three point is either all the way up or all the way down?

Correct

 

[KCM]

The TO-20 has the same 3-point system as the Ford 2N and operates identically. Remember that the lift system was Harry Ferguson's idea from the start. When Ford and Ferguson split up, Ford added the position control lever to the lift system to add to the constant draft system of the 2N and bypass Ferguson's patent. When this lever is down, the lift works the same whether a TO-20, 9N, 2N, or 8N.

Both tractors are fine. The TO-20 was Ferguson's direct competition to the Ford 8N after the split. The 8N has the flathead engine while the T0-20 has the Continental overhead valve engine. Otherwise they are both operated the same and will do the same job.

 

[steve19438]

prejudice.

 

[Caryc]

(quoted from post at 12:56:16 03/30/18) prejudice.

Why not throw a little racist in there also?

 

[Kirk-NJ]

Ditto

 

[Kirk-NJ]

(quoted from post at 13:11:40 03/30/18) Ditto

Ditto comment was meant for UD's comment about the TO35
Better then the TO20/30&8n

 

[Dean]

Agreed, but a TO-20 or 30 is no MF35 or Workbull.

Dean

 

[grayrider]

I?ve owned both, several of each as a matter of fact, I?d
choose the Ferguson, parts are readily available

 

[Hobo,NC]

TO20 is a 9/2N with a better engine... The engines are known to crack internally its a common flaw... If your 8N has a late steering box then add position control that's all it got over on a TO20...
If you N has a early steering box position control can be add to the TO than no advantage...

TO has better rear axles a real disadvantage on a 8N...
From the transmission back a TO20 and a 9/2N are pert-near interchangeable...TO20, 9N2N have better brakes than a 8N the reason folks beach about the brakes is they don't know what they are doing and haftarse repair them...

TO35 a different ball game for the most part all the tractor most would ever need. I always wanted 35/135 but never ran across a deal on one so settled for a Ford 3000 after owning a Ford 600 and a 850. If I were looking to up grade to a used 50 year are so tractor I would jump to a Ford thousand series are a MF135... Worst case you get a 20 year newer tractor with 20 years of less ware plus all the upgrades that are still common on today's tractors...

 

[Royse]

Sounds like you plan to buy it either way, no?
If that's the case, fix it up, use it and compare them for your use case.
Everybody uses tractors differently so one may work better for you.

Others have mentioned the position control. A Zane Thang will
add it to a Fergy the same as it does to a 9N/2N.
The Continental engines start and run very well.
Prone to crack as was mentioned.
Distributor is easier to get to for service.
Tilt up hood can be difficult to add a front bumper, but also easier
to run with the sheetmetal off since the gas tank isn't in the hood.

I've not had trouble finding parts for my Fergusons, but they are
often priced higher than parts for an 8N. Especially for my TE-20.
Neutral safety starter switch for example. 8N about $20, TO-20
$30~$40, TE-20 no longer available. Find a dealer that has a new
old stock switch on the shelf and try to talk them down from $250.

BTW, I found a dealer that wanted their shelf space back, so I
got it for a lot less than that, but still more expensive than an N.
That switch is quite a PITA to put in BTW.

I have a TO-35 Deluxe too. Live hydraulics, live PTO, remote
hydraulics, real nice tractor. Unless you have to change the gauges.
It seems most people just cut holes in the back of the dash to
gain access to change them. :shock:

 

[Caryc]

(quoted from post at 19:46:01 03/30/18) Sounds like you plan to buy it either way, no?
If that's the case, fix it up, use it and compare them for your use case.
Everybody uses tractors differently so one may work better for you.

Others have mentioned the position control. A Zane Thang will
add it to a Fergy the same as it does to a 9N/2N.
The Continental engines start and run very well.
Prone to crack as was mentioned.
Distributor is easier to get to for service.
Tilt up hood can be difficult to add a front bumper, but also easier
to run with the sheetmetal off since the gas tank isn't in the hood.

I've not had trouble finding parts for my Fergusons, but they are
often priced higher than parts for an 8N. Especially for my TE-20.
Neutral safety starter switch for example. 8N about $20, TO-20
$30~$40, TE-20 no longer available. Find a dealer that has a new
old stock switch on the shelf and try to talk them down from $250.

BTW, I found a dealer that wanted their shelf space back, so I
got it for a lot less than that, but still more expensive than an N.
That switch is quite a PITA to put in BTW.

I have a TO-35 Deluxe too. Live hydraulics, live PTO, remote
hydraulics, real nice tractor.[color=red:098dbb6a81] [b:098dbb6a81]Unless you have to change the gauges.
It seems most people just cut holes in the back of the dash to
gain access to change them. :shock:[/b:098dbb6a81][/color:098dbb6a81]

I was wondering about that myself. Can that be done without removing the whole thing? How close is anything to that back panel. Could something like a small cut off wheel be used making a cut no deeper than say 1/8"?

 

[Royse]

"Can that be done without removing the whole thing?"

That's the rub Cary, you can't remove the whole thing either,
because you would have to unhook the wiring and lines to do so.
You can take the proofmeter out, then reach through that hole
to get to some of the stuff if you have really small hands.
In the pictures I saw, people used a cut-off wheel.
Mine is still in tact with one gauge needing to be replaced.
I'll get one of the grandkids or nieces/nephews to reach in there.

 

[Benj R]

Hey K. Campbell. There is a frequent poster by the handle of Steve19438 that was
wanting to sell a To35 a while back, maybe check with him. I have 8ns and a
Ferguson Tea 20,and besides what other posters have said, the Ferguson's have a
slower reverse. I prefer the faster reverse on the 8ns myself,but many others
curse it. I also have a To35 Deluxe which is a super great tractor,if you like
your 8n you will love the 35, it is only about 2 inches longer than the 8n and has
the dual range transmission witch includes a creeper gear and is available with
Live pto, live hydraulics,position and draft control and more power.

 

[K.Campbell]

man you guys have really given me somthing to think about. Yes I'll prolly buy the TO20, ( if I can buy it right) I'll probably fix it up and then decide for myself. I was planning on flipping one of the two tractors for a profit, if possible.....the Ferguson, as mentioned earlier, is a basket case, meaning lots of time involved in re-assembly. However all the parts are there and I know the fella pretty well who is selling it. He is vouching for the engine and transmission being sound. The most intimidating part of the whole rebuild, at least for me, is reassembling the steering mechanism, I've no experience with this...he is however including a manual that shows an exploded view of this and a brief "how-to" type instruction. I'll know alittle more tomorrow when I see all the parts gathered up..I'll keep ya'll posted. Thanks! And wish me luck! Lol

 

[Caryc]

(quoted from post at 20:28:43 03/30/18) "Can that be done without removing the whole thing?"

That's the rub Cary, you can't remove the whole thing either,
because you would have to unhook the wiring and lines to do so.
You can take the proofmeter out, then reach through that hole
to get to some of the stuff if you have really small hands.
In the pictures I saw, people used a cut-off wheel.
Mine is still in tact with one gauge needing to be replaced.
I'll get one of the grandkids or nieces/nephews to reach in there.

How can you get the proof meter out if you can't get to the back of it?

 

[Royse]

(quoted from post at 00:59:22 03/31/18)

(quoted from post at 20:28:43 03/30/18) "Can that be done without removing the whole thing?"

That's the rub Cary, you can't remove the whole thing either,
because you would have to unhook the wiring and lines to do so.
You can take the proofmeter out, then reach through that hole
to get to some of the stuff if you have really small hands.
In the pictures I saw, people used a cut-off wheel.
Mine is still in tact with one gauge needing to be replaced.
I'll get one of the grandkids or nieces/nephews to reach in there.

How can you get the proof meter out if you can't get to the back of it?

The dash has a front/outer section and a back/inner section that are welded together.
The proofmeter goes through both so you can get to it.
The other connections are sandwiched between the two sections.

Here's a picture of one with holes cut in the back. PTFarmer posted it.
The three holes in the top center of the back section are for the proofmeter mounting and cable.

 

[tractorguy2]

I would much rather have the 8n. The TO20 had a habit of
cracking the block. Parts are harder to find and more expensive.

 

[steve19438]

um..........believe that is my pic of a TO-35 dash i mutilated. it worked tho !!

 

[steve19438]

no offense meant to any one but i have had a TO-20, TO-30 and now have all 35's. (over 30 years) never had a problem getting a part i needed and no more expensive than any other parts. IME

 

[Royse]

"um..........believe that is my pic of a TO-35 dash i mutilated. it worked tho !!"

Sorry about that Steve.
I was trying to give credit to the right person and it looked like he posted it.

 

[K.Campbell]

Well, the owner of the T0-20 and I couldn't come to an agreement...it's pretty much a basket case with all the bolts, nuts, springs and rods to put it back together,steering box is completely tore apart with new components to put back in place. Rear tires are weather checked, not badly...but still not the greatest. Wiring harness, key switch, headlights and work light are accounted for.Upon closer inspection of the engine, it has many oil leaks and looks like it has been used and abused. I couldn't inspect it very close the first time I went to see it, as the clutter in the building was a little overwhelming..the owner is stuck on 900$ no way a I'm doing that for a tractor that appears to need a full restoration...but thanks for all the information, it may come in handy in the future! For now, I plan on keeping the 8n and using it.

 

[Abbby]

Parts are much more readily available for the 8N than the TO-20

 

[steve19438]

no problem.

 

[steve19438]

i would say all the TO's had problems with the blocks cracking. the 20 i had was cracked and a 35 i bought was too. buyer beware !!!

 

[K.Campbell]

(quoted from post at 07:29:57 04/01/18) i would say all the TO's had problems with the blocks cracking. the 20 i had was cracked and a 35 i bought was too. buyer beware !!!

So what causes the block to crack? Where does it crack normally? My dad has a to30 since 1964 and his never cracked. However he was been warned that the metal between the waterjacket and head is very thin and to keep an eye out for water in his oil or oil in his anti freeze. That’s the only thing I’ve ever heard of, Dad doesn’t work on his himself and nowadays doesn’t run it often, but back in the day it pulled a plow and was the main tractor on a 50 acre farm.

 

[HFJ]

(quoted from post at 06:01:16 04/02/18)

(quoted from post at 07:29:57 04/01/18) i would say all the TO's had problems with the blocks cracking. the 20 i had was cracked and a 35 i bought was too. buyer beware !!!

So what causes the block to crack?

just a blind guess, but i'll go with the same thing that causes the B&S Intek engines, like the one in my riding mower, to blow the head gasket - bad engineering.

in the case of the Intek, there's a long stretch between 2 of the head bolts, and they routinely blow the gasket out there. the 2 smaller holes in the pic are alignment pins only, not bolts.

 

[L.Fure]

(quoted from post at 15:29:57 04/01/18) i would say all the TO's had problems with the blocks cracking. the 20 i had was cracked and a 35 i bought was too. buyer beware !!!

I found a repair for the Ferguson engine crack in Farm Show magazine. The article was for repairing cracks that are between the cylinders.

 

[jon corbett]

many of the u.s.fergs had bad blocks=poor casting here in the u.s.when working-plowing the web cracks would open up and water would enter the oil.i have seen many repairs-some worked some didn't.only the te's were made in England=good block casting.i just purchased a 9n with the Sherman trans.may the best tractor win!