Choosing Speed Limits

[Mopower]

Speed limits are the equalizer in modern pulling. I've pulled long chains, short chains, power tracks, brush tracks, big cubes, stock cubes, etc. In my observations, horsepower has an advantage, but only to a point, after which it can almost be a disadvantage. A larger tractor can gear up and throttle back, but that plan can backfire. Where's the fine line?
I observe a 65 horse WC in 3500#. My other bud makes about 110 with his 335. On any given day, one may beat the other. Is 3.5 mph too much, too little, or just right? I have my own thoughts, but would anyone care to share theirs?

 

[JDH]

Ethan, I agree. Something needs to be done to control the future of our sport. It"s turned into a money game where people are willing to mortgage the farm to build a toy. Someone just starting out will get discouraged quickly if all of his competition has big money in their tractors. I think the mph rule makes it more even, but still doesnt deal with a big cube farmall M turning 10% over stock competing against a stock M. We need to find a way to get new people into our sport that we love.

 

[Dblair]

been able to lug the engine and not run out of torque at a high enough speed to max out the speed limit is a winner . just my my opinion

 

[hahter]

I use to pull at this one pull where farm stock tractors ran at factory rpm and in first gear. If a tractor was built to run 10-20% over they will be at a disadvantage.

 

[Mopower]

I'm not trying to pick on you, but whenever I hear the word "control", it usually means saying "no". My personal opinion is DivII is the key to bringing in the new guys on a budget. Separating stock or M&W kit machines from strokers may be one way. Is there a way to bring in newbies and locals without telling the dollar guy what he enjoys is wrong or not welcome?

Sometimes just having the big spenders and the budget pullers in the same room seems to breed discontent even if they never actually meet in competition. It would be hard to enforce, but the intent of our local 3mph Mod class is no welded cranks. Offset grinds and over bore, but no gutted and stroked stuff.

 

[Larry Mc]

I think 3 MPH helps equalize the tractors at most "club" pulls. Haven't been to any of the "mega" pulls yet so I can't atest to how they work.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Thats the problem right there wanting to equalize tractors . Why? A 3000 dollar field tractor should never have rules favoring it in performance over a tractor with a 25000 dollar engine. Should be a place for both to compete amongst others of the same range.

 

[JDH]

That"s another problem. I dont have a stock engine nor do I have a 25K engine. So does that mean create another class for me? What I do know is I have friends and customers that have come to pulls before and they want to leave after the first 25 classes of watching the same tractors pull over and over again. (where we pull has 50 or 60 classes) I love pulling and would like to pull in every class but thats not what spectators want to see. If you look at the NTPA, they only have a couple tractor classes. I"m not saying we need two classes but we dont need to create a class for every tractor either.

 

[Superih]

(quoted from post at 11:40:44 12/17/10) Speed limits are the equalizer in modern pulling. I've pulled long chains, short chains, power tracks, brush tracks, big cubes, stock cubes, etc. In my observations, horsepower has an advantage, but only to a point, after which it can almost be a disadvantage. A larger tractor can gear up and throttle back, but that plan can backfire. Where's the fine line?
I observe a 65 horse WC in 3500#. My other bud makes about 110 with his 335. On any given day, one may beat the other. Is 3.5 mph too much, too little, or just right? I have my own thoughts, but would anyone care to share theirs?

You should not try to equalize everything. A Div 3 type class needs to have a tire size maximum of 18.4-38 and allow full cuts. A Div 2 type class needs to have a tire size maximum of 15.5-38 and only allow top cuts.
I say this for 2 reasons;
1-Tractor pulling can be boiled down to one thing, horsepower to traction ratio, if you have it perfect you will usually win. There are many factors that figure into this and that is a completely different post. So, to get this ratio correct you can have too much hp for a tire or not enough that is where the tire size comes into reason for the classes.
2-Most pullers that come to a pull will want to pull in their respective division, but if they wanted to jump divisions, especially from Div 3 down to Div 2 they would be forced to change tires, which 99% will not do, thus keeping them in their correct division.

 

[SOS 88 PULLER]

For a stock class put them on a dyno at 540 pto rpms to check horse power.

 

[Mopower]

I can agree there. Seems to be some flames between the top cut guys and uncut guys. I say top cut would make things cheaper. Others say no. For the most part, local club people stay in their own classes. I'm just wondering why the discontent and what changes, if any, people want. You know me, head scratching and keyboard pulling.

On a sidenote, why is it when a guy spends some money on a tractor, he becomes a target of scrutiny? I see no reason to say it's ok for one guy to enjoy his hobby on a moderate budget, but it's taboo to drop big bucks on what makes you happy. It gets a little insane. That's why I brought it up. Speed limits make a good competition, but to those who are upset, what would they change besides telling a guy what he should spend on his toy?

 

[north puller]

I am trying to decide on a speed limit for our club too. We only have two classes or divisions. Modified, which is anything goes, and stock antique, which up until now has been stock block, no cut tires, and 10% over RPM. 5 years ago a truly stock tractor could place or even win with good balance and a bit of luck. Today we have tractors running out the end at 6 and 7 MPH. Not really stock. Thenew pullers with stock tractors get discouraged and don't come back. Because we don't have multiple classes, I need to come up with a speed limit that will keep the most people happy and give us the best attendance. Trying to decide between 3.5 and 4 MPH. Any suggestions or comments are appreciated, especially from any pullers in Ontario, Canada. Email is open too.

 

[Mopower]

The difference is NATPA pays bills from selling hooks. NTPA makes money by putting butts in the seats. It's participant vs. spectator funded events. But to your point, yeah some of these classes are splitting hairs. It's more fun to see who wins a 25 hook class than a 5 hook class. This explains the rise of jackpot pulls all over the country. It did wonders in our club!

 

[Anonymous-0]

Yea on a given day it may help , but on most days give me the HP. If you are maxed out and I still have throttle left at the end , odds are I can give it a little more and get myself out of any trouble or it will help. And I am usually on the bad end of that deal I always end up pulling against big cube olivers that have at least 100 more HP than I do.

 

[supermpuller]

You can do it with draw bar length, most of the good runners are 18in. back of axle . Make it over 20 in back and they are out of luck . 16 in. high and 24 back and 3 mph speed limit you won't see any hot tractors.

 

[Mopower]

Here's a very simplified summary of Clintonia Antique Farm Power Club classes:

Weights are 2500-6500# (sometimes 7500)

Barnyard 2.5mph
Factory model specific parts only. Cast wheels must remain. Uncut tires. One size over stock width tire. 10% on rpm

Mod 3mph
Up to 15.5 size top cut tires or 18.4 for 30" and under. Factory tire sizes ok. 10% on RPM. hitch must extend beyond rear tires.

Mod+ 4mph
18.4X38 and full cut allowed. Pretty much NATPA div3 rules except engine can be stock length. Most bolt on stuff is allowed. There are weight limits on certain models.

Supermod
Same as 4mph pretty much but no weight restrictions. Engines are a little more abundant.

Our hitch height is 19" for everything. Other clubs bounce between 18" and 20" so much, we put it in the middle. Our chain is a bit longer too.

 

[Welding man]

We have 3 stock antique clubs in my area that we pull with. All clubs pull from 2000# thru 12,000# classes. No cut tires and only 2 sizes bigger than what came on the tractor. No hang on weights and 10% over stock RPM .3.5 MPH up thru 5500# class and 6000# thru 12,000 4.0 MPH. If the tire rule or the RPM's don't take care of the problem the speed limit will. We have a lot of stock tractors out pull the hot ones because they can't open them up or they spin out.And yes we have a good turnout 125 to 250 hooks.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Hell I would just like a place to pull that was less than 100 miles 1 way from my Town! I have 3 show pulls that I can go to that are under 50 miles one way.
They are fun! But it would be nice to have a few more!
I know quit your Bitching!
Later!

 

[com-yellow]

Ethan,,( goodstuff) I pull stock and I mean stock MM's a u302 lp and a g705 lp at 3.5 mph and have won when!! I got the balance and gearing right , some of the tractors with 50% over stock horsepower spinout or have trouble balanceing the tractor at that speed, I wish I had a answer but I think of quiting some times instead of pulling againest mods. claiming to be stock BOB

 

[39 A]

(quoted from post at 19:34:25 12/17/10) Here's a very simplified summary of Clintonia Antique Farm Power Club classes:

Weights are 2500-6500# (sometimes 7500)

Barnyard 2.5mph
Factory model specific parts only. Cast wheels must remain. Uncut tires. One size over stock width tire. 10% on rpm

Mod 3mph
Up to 15.5 size top cut tires or 18.4 for 30" and under. Factory tire sizes ok. 10% on RPM. hitch must extend beyond rear tires.

Mod+ 4mph
18.4X38 and full cut allowed. Pretty much NATPA div3 rules except engine can be stock length. Most bolt on stuff is allowed. There are weight limits on certain models.

Supermod
Same as 4mph pretty much but no weight restrictions. Engines are a little more abundant.

Our hitch height is 19" for everything. Other clubs bounce between 18" and 20" so much, we put it in the middle. Our chain is a bit longer too.

So in the 3mph class you must have some guys with allis tractors or short type tractors that have all the pull with the tire rules. For 38" tires you allow 200 sq in maximum, but yet allow nearly 30% bigger for the shorter tires at 258 sq in. Makes no sense to me.

 

[Allis Fields]

The last pull of the year was on black top. I placed 3rd in 4500,5000. I run a wd45 gas 1700 rpm 4"x4.5" not rebuilt but a reground pulling cam. 15.5-38 and a diesel rear end. There was a digital MPH read out at the end of the track. I went down at 3mph or less. The two brothers used staight stick wd that beat me had 16.9-28 and went down the track between 4 and 5 mph. I know there gearing is higher in the tractor. What was there rpm? The one was checked at a differnt pull a few years ago. And in a 1700 rpm max allowed it was running 3500 rpm. the other one backed out of the next pull. Both of these guys are friends of mine and I won't tatle to get to win. I wanted to beat them fair and square. Maybe this year.

 

[Cockshutt Mike]

In my area there are two clubs that do very well. Both clubs have three divisions. One club contols all divisions with RPM MPH and hitch height 18" & 20". Second club all 20" hitch height and contols with RPM, HP limit checked with dyno, and only allows you to pull in first or second gear. Second club does have a class of open HP. Both clubs have cut and non cut tire divisions. I have pulled a lot with both clubs and I must say it has always been a fair fight. Tractors at both from 25HP to 150 plus HP. I do think the dyno keeps a lot of tractors out simply because they don't have a pto. If it was me I would do the bottom three divisions as such. (first class)18" hitch, Stock RPM, 1st or 2nd gear (no shifting) no cut tires and max tire size (example)a max size 2500 to 4000 then another max size 4000 to 5500 and so on. (second class)20" hitch, 20% over stock RPM, cut tires, again with a max tire size, and 1st/2nd gear only. (third class) 20% over RPM 20" hitch, run what you got and hope you got enough. All these classes would rquire stock block, head, etc. or proven replacement. I think this would save a lot of trouble. I would also raise the tractor age so that the younger generation would become more involved.

 

[VicS]

Just go to United States Antique Pullers, John Lampkin has the easiest simplest rules to enforce. Farm Stock 3 mph 15.5 X 38 top cut tires 10 % over rpm. Mod 4 mph 18.4 mph full cut tires 20 % over rpm. then 8mph and 12 mph All hitches 20 in high 18in back from axle center. 11 ft long from center of rear axle to very front of weights. I have a 3.5 mph tractor and I have did very well against higher hp tractors. It's the little things all added together that let you compete well. Copy the winners and soon you will be one of them. It's not all hp.

 

[buickanddeere]

3mph is a nice round number.
About the slowest speed possible without DQ'ing factory tractors with a way too fast 1st gear such as the JD G and 70.

 

[LCB]

I agree with VicS usap rules are the way to go.Simpel rules and every one has a chance but you are wrong on RPMS it is 20percent over for super farm stock also.Power is nice but have been beat by stock tractors manny times ask farmall 47.

 

[al-roi]

Ethan,I have really enjoyed pulling with the W.A.T.A. club the last couple of years. The antique class from 3200 to 7500 is 15.5-38 max tire size,top cut,24" hitch from center,20" high,3 M.P.H. with a really long chain.The tire size and speed really keeps the people who dont belong in the class out. there is a class for them also.I am able to pull 5 classes on a pretty equal pulling field.

 

[Anonymous-0]

We ran 5 mph this past season and it worked well keeping the modified tractors at bay, but rpm i think plays a bigger role.(southern Ontario)

 

[Anonymous-0]

a couple of questions, what do you do about tractors that had no factory pto installed and does anyone want to be stuck running th dyno all day? Also what do you do with a dc Case for example? It was only tested at Neb. in 1939 and made 37hp but with Cases intro. of 4" pistons and gas head it was updated to 45hp but never retested through it's production until discontinued in 1954.

 

[Anonymous-0]

if you want an antique stock class look at it this way, most tractors have a low gear in the area of 2.5mph so we allow 3mph in our class one which compensates for a few more rpm's or a little taller tire, we also have a 210sq. inch tire rule (per Firestone chart) which allows 14.9/15.5-38. 16.9-28 ect., class one has an 18"high drawbar rule which helps the lower hp tractors.