Cockshutt 40 no spark

[Masseyharrisnut]

Used to think i was pretty good at figuring point style ignition systems out and fixing. But Im confused. Restoring a 40 right now. I put a picture of it on this forum a
while ago. Started it up a few days ago and it ran briefly then quit. Started up again right away and quit again. Would not restart. Checked a couple plugs and
found intermittent spark so decided to dig a little further. Looked at the points and decided to put new ones in. Replaced condenser and rotor as well. Coil was
new already. Tried to start and would not fire. No spark at the plugs. Tested coil and it tests good. Even put old coil on to try and no start. Checked power going
into coil and its good. Checked all plug wires and they test good. Battery is good and all cables and wiring from ignition switch are good, they are all new. Tried a
different condenser and still no spark. Put new plugs in this afternoon tested the coil again and checked voltage going into distributor from the coil and it is good.
Did a resistance check on the coil wire through to the carbon contact to the rotor and its good. Still no spark. What am I missing?????? Thanks for any help

 

[scootergmc]

Are you sure you have good ground contact? Did you clean both ends- battery and tractor? I'd start there.

 

[rrlund]

Cap? The cows tugged on the wires on my 1550 Oliver one time. They lifted the cap a little and there was actually kind of a spring loaded pin in the center of the distributor cap where it contacts the rotor. That pin fell out, then what was left wasn't making contact anymore.

 

[tractorsam]

Could the wire from the coil to the points be shorted to ground where it passes through the distributor? Sam

 

[old]

Simple test that will tell where the problem is. With the cap off so you can see the point use a hot wire from the ignition side of the battery to the ignition side of the coil. Touch it on and off and watch for a spark with the points close. If you have spark as you should then turn the engine so as to open the points. Touch the wire to the coil again and off and on a few times. If you still have spark you have a short either the wire to the condenser or the insulator going into the side of the distributor has gone bad

 

[Masseyharrisnut]

Thank you old. I will use your method to check that in the morning. I did check with an ohm meter but may not have done that right.

 

[Masseyharrisnut]

Thank you tractorsam. I will test that in the morning.

 

[Masseyharrisnut]

Thank you rrlund.The carbon contact is still in place and tests good with am ohmmeter.

 

[Masseyharrisnut]

Thanks scootergmc. Have tested both ends with voltmeter, ohmmeter and test light. Seem okay.

 

[old]

I learned decades ago the simple test I talked about always works if you do it right. I use this spark test any time I trouble shoot a no spark condition. Do it you can figure out if maybe the ignition switch is bad or a broken wire or a bad insulator in the side of the distributor and all it takes is a piece of wire and your eyes

 

[rustred]

not that this is your problem , but these old tractors use wire core in the plug wires not carbon core wires. plus to check for spark. have key on and points closed and open the points with a little screwdriver you should see and hear the spark at the contacts. and also when holding the coil wire out of the cap a bit you will see the spark jump.

 

[Masseyharrisnut]

Thanks rustred. The plug wires all check good with an ohmmeter. Going to check the points for sparking tomorrow.

 

[greg krush]

I would second the ground theory, if all else checks out a weak ground connection can frustrate you to no end. you need good ground on
the whole distributor, on the plate that holds the points, points to the plate, battery to frame, the fact that the tractor started and ran
then quit indicated something that is variable, such as a weak ground connection.

 

[scootergmc]

Yes, but did you disconnect the main cable and clean everything well?

 

[Masseyharrisnut]

Thanks Greg krush. Heading out to the garage soon to check all of that out.

 

[P Heisey Harleysville,PA]

LOOK AT YOUR ROTOR..........MAKE SURE THERE IS A METAL INSERT INSIDE YOUR ROTOR ...WHERE IT PRESSES ON TO YOUR AUTO-LITE DISTRIBUTOR SHAFT...THE 40.50 TRACTORS USE A DIFFERENT ROTOR THAN THE 20-30-35 COCKSHUTT TRACTORS....THE NECK OF THE 40/50 ROTOR IS ALSO TALLER THAN THE 2O-30-35 ROTOR.

PHIL HEISEY
215-256-8651

 

[Masseyharrisnut]

A message for Mr. P. Heisey. I read your post while I was in for lunch after doing the tests and checking things over that others had posted here earlier as well as rechecking things I had done and checked several times before. My thoughts on your post where that sounds legit so when I went back out to my garage I grabbed the new rotor I had put in and looked for that piece of metal.Was not there. Grabbed the old rotor and wow theres a piece of metal on this rotor. Kinda dirty and grubby looking so I cleaned it up and reinstalled it and in less than two rotations cranking the engine it fired up and ran flawlessly just like it should. I have not run into that situation in all the years of doing my own mechanical work. I want to thank you for your help getting my cockshutt 40 running and I wish you and your family all the best in the new year.

 

[scootergmc]

Woohoo! Glad you got it sorted.

 

[J.Wondergem]

Phil also stocks a lot of parts for your tractor.

 

[Masseyharrisnut]

Yes j wondergem thats what Ive heard. And nothing but good comments on the service he provides as well. Not all that common these days but nice to know.
Problem with the parts i need is getting them shipped to Canada and of course the 30 percent difference in money. Happy happy that my 40 is running good now.

 

[P Heisey Harleysville,PA]

BINGO !!! Glad to Help !!! YOU ARE WELCOME!

Phil

 

[P Heisey Harleysville,PA]

Jack,

THANKS for your comment.

Phil

 

[kenbob]

Did you put the old condenser back in? The new ones are faulty more often then not. As far as your original problem before replacing the condenser: Could you have a restriction in your exhaust? That would cause it to run for a while then quit. Also on my Case Vac I had a similar problem. It turned out the wire to the ignition switch had come loose just a little (not sure why it would do that after 70 years). When I had my wife run the starter I was able to look at the switch and could see it arcing. tighted it up and that was it.

 

[Masseyharrisnut]

Well kenbob the new one is still in the tractor but Im keeping the old one because it has made in USA stamped in it. This tractor will only see a few hours of running per year at a a couple stock vintage tractor pulls in southern Alberta and maybe some light work around the yard. Ive got a bunch of tractors to choose from so none of them get many hours put on them.

 

[kenbob]

Just between my brother and I we have had 3 junk condensers in the past year. Putting the old one back might return it to the point it was before, running just a little while, but it would be a start. If you get it back to that point, fuel starvation is another possibility to cause it to quit. You might have gas in the sediment bowl, but it might be too thin a stream to keep the tractor running. I am interested to see what you find.

 

[Masseyharrisnut]

Good morning kenbob. No fuel starvation or exhaust blockage. Ran the tractor for a half hour yesterday and it runs excellent. I had gone through all the obvious stuff like that early on in the work. I bought this tractor from a couple of elderly gentlemen that had rebuilt the engine and did the restoration up to about a 90% level. I just have a few parts to acquire to make it complete and put it on the dyno and then wait for the vintage tractor pulls. Waiting for the local parts store to get a new fan belt in and then the front nose piece and hood will get put back on and then im bringing in a Massey Harris 20 that is running but needs some oil leaks addressed and a bit of tin work repaired. Cant wait. Bored sitting in the house in this brutally cold weather.

 

[kenbob]

I guess I missed it, What was the cure?

 

[kenbob]

I read the entire post. I saw the answer. Glad you are up and running.

 

[Masseyharrisnut]

Mr. P Heisey suggested that I check the distributor rotor to make sure it was the right one. Turns out I put the wrong rotor on. The proper one has a metal part inside the rotor cavity that grounds it to the distributor shaft. The one I put on was identical in all ways but no metal part on it. Cleaned the old one up because it was dirty and corroded some and tractor fired right up and runs great. I have since received a new one that is correct. Stay warm kenbob.