1955 ford 172 gas engine won’t start

[rdjinny]

I was running tractor for a couple hours and then it just stopped running and wouldn’t start again it also had a Pertronix ignition,
I checked for spark and didn’t have any assuming the Pertronix went bad. Anyway I had another distributor that has new points and condenser gapped at 25 thousand set the flywheel at 26 degrees on compression stroke on 1 cylinder installed the new distributor and I’m having trouble getting the gears to mesh to point to the no.1 piston it goes down before and after I installed anyway and I have good spark but it will pop or backfire no matter how much I rotate the distributor what am I doing wrong?
Tested coil seems to be good, new plugs, plug wires are good I tried turning the oil pump to get distributor in the right direction but haven’t been successful.
Any suggestions I sure would appreciate it

Thanks in advance

 

[old]

I was running tractor for a couple hours and then it just stopped running and wouldn’t start again it also had a Pertronix ignition,
I checked for spark and didn’t have any assuming the Pertronix went bad. Anyway I had another distributor that has new points and condenser gapped at 25 thousand set the flywheel at 26 degrees on compression stroke on 1 cylinder installed the new distributor and I’m having trouble getting the gears to mesh to point to the no.1 piston it goes down before and after I installed anyway and I have good spark but it will pop or backfire no matter how much I rotate the distributor what am I doing wrong?
Tested coil seems to be good, new plugs, plug wires are good I tried turning the oil pump to get distributor in the right direction but haven’t been successful.
Any suggestions I sure would appreciate it

Thanks in advance

Sounds like you have it 180 out of time. Get it to TDC on the compression stroke and check where the rotor is pointing I bet it is point to someplace other then #1 on the cap

 

[Jim.ME]

I was running tractor for a couple hours and then it just stopped running and wouldn’t start again it also had a Pertronix ignition,
I checked for spark and didn’t have any assuming the Pertronix went bad. Anyway I had another distributor that has new points and condenser gapped at 25 thousand set the flywheel at 26 degrees on compression stroke on 1 cylinder installed the new distributor and I’m having trouble getting the gears to mesh to point to the no.1 piston it goes down before and after I installed anyway and I have good spark but it will pop or backfire no matter how much I rotate the distributor what am I doing wrong?
Tested coil seems to be good, new plugs, plug wires are good I tried turning the oil pump to get distributor in the right direction but haven’t been successful.
Any suggestions I sure would appreciate it

Thanks in advance

You are installing the distrubutor with the timing marks too far advanced. I set the timing marks to #1 cylinder at top dead center on the compression stroke, to install a distributor, not at 26 degrees advanced. 26 degrees would be how much the distributor advances the timing when running at high idle (about full throttle).

 

[wore out]

You are installing the distrubutor with the timing marks too far advanced. I set the timing marks to #1 cylinder at top dead center on the compression stroke, to install a distributor, not at 26 degrees advanced. 26 degrees would be how much the distributor advances the timing when running at high idle (about full throttle).

The Ford manuals generally stated to install the distributor with the engine timed to the advanced position, while holding the distributor advance mechanism in the "advanced" position. That's where the confusion comes in.

 

[rdjinny]

Ok I did rotate the engine again with no1 on compression stroke to see where rotor was pointing to and it’s right before the no1 spark plug knowing it should be a little more what I’ll do tomorrow is set flywheel to TDC and try to reinstall distributor and hopefully I can get it closer than it is…. Is there a trick to get this to mesh other than I’ve been trying?

 

[old]

Ok I did rotate the engine again with no1 on compression stroke to see where rotor was pointing to and it’s right before the no1 spark plug knowing it should be a little more what I’ll do tomorrow is set flywheel to TDC and try to reinstall distributor and hopefully I can get it closer than it is…. Is there a trick to get this to mesh other than I’ve been trying?

If the rotor turn when you slip it in turn turn it so the next tooth on the gear lines up so it then set in with the correct tooth lining up

 

[Jim.ME]

The Ford manuals generally stated to install the distributor with the engine timed to the advanced position, while holding the distributor advance mechanism in the "advanced" position. That's where the confusion comes in.

Understood, it works if it is held in advance but that seems to get missed. The OEM Ford Manual I have describes installing the distributor as I described doing it. In any case, I just find it easier to install it without having to hold the cam advanced, get it running and check the advance operation with a timing light.

 

[rdjinny]

Okay that’s what I’ll try and I’ll let you know how it goes
Thanks

 

[rdjinny]

The Ford manuals generally stated to install the distributor with the engine timed to the advanced position, while holding the distributor advance mechanism in the "advanced" position. That's where the confusion comes in.

That’s what I was going from a little confused actually, do you or have you set timing at tdc or at a certain degree? I tried static timing also heard a noise but not a spark first time I tried I heard a loud pop from the opposite side of the tractor but didn’t see anything or damage from it that I know of sry for rambling.

 

[Jim.ME]

That’s what I was going from a little confused actually, do you or have you set timing at tdc or at a certain degree? I tried static timing also heard a noise but not a spark first time I tried I heard a loud pop from the opposite side of the tractor but didn’t see anything or damage from it that I know of sry for rambling.

Just to clarify. How are you confirming #1 is on the compression stroke?

 

[rdjinny]

Just to clarify. How are you confirming #1 is on the compression stroke?

I’ve used my finger to feel for compression and also used a balloon with a nozzle connected to #1 cylinder

 

[Jim.ME]

I’ve used my finger to feel for compression and also used a balloon with a nozzle connected to #1 cylinder

Good, thank you.

A couple basic review items. Have you checked that the plug wires are in the correct firing order? And that the wires are on the cap in the proper rotation? Swapping the distributors it is possible a couple got crossed.

When you are lining up the timing marks are you always turning in the correct rotation of the running engine? Turning the wrong way can make some difference as any backlash in the gears is on the wrong side of them. If you have to "back up" got a bit past, then come forward in the correct rotation so the backlash is removed on the proper side of things. It's not a big thing, but good practice if nothing else.

At 450 - 475 RPM the timing should be at 4 degrees BTDC according to the Ford manual I have.

As I posted I install a distributor at TDC. Once the distributor is seated, I rotate the engine backwards 30 degrees or so then come forward to the line up the static (low Idle) timing marks. Then rotate the distributor just enough to hit the points opening spot. When the engine is running, I check/adjust timing with a timing light and check the advance operation.

If you have the distributor gear engaged where you want it, but it doesn't go down due to the oil pump drive shaft, you can turn the engine while the gear is partially engaged to get the distributor to drop onto the oil pump drive shaft. Lightly hold down on the distributor while rotating the engine. Once the distributor is down you line the static timing mark (4 degrees BTDC) up to set the static timing by point opening.

Others may do it different; this works for me. YMMV.
.

 

[rdjinny]

Good, thank you.

A couple basic review items. Have you checked that the plug wires are in the correct firing order? And that the wires are on the cap in the proper rotation? Swapping the distributors it is possible a couple got crossed.

When you are lining up the timing marks are you always turning in the correct rotation of the running engine? Turning the wrong way can make some difference as any backlash in the gears is on the wrong side of them. If you have to "back up" got a bit past, then come forward in the correct rotation so the backlash is removed on the proper side of things. It's not a big thing, but good practice if nothing else.

At 450 - 475 RPM the timing should be at 4 degrees BTDC according to the Ford manual I have.

As I posted I install a distributor at TDC. Once the distributor is seated, I rotate the engine backwards 30 degrees or so then come forward to the line up the static (low Idle) timing marks. Then rotate the distributor just enough to hit the points opening spot. When the engine is running, I check/adjust timing with a timing light and check the advance operation.

If you have the distributor gear engaged where you want it, but it doesn't go down due to the oil pump drive shaft, you can turn the engine while the gear is partially engaged to get the distributor to drop onto the oil pump drive shaft. Lightly hold down on the distributor while rotating the engine. Once the distributor is down you line the static timing mark (4 degrees BTDC) up to set the static timing by point opening.

Others may do it different; this works for me. YMMV.
.

Okay I’ll try doing it that way, instead of rotating engine to seat the distributor which is definitely happening should I rotate the oiler instead ? I’ve tried doing that but really hasn’t worked out pulling distributor out rotating oiler and trying to reinstall with no luck

 

[Jim.ME]

Okay I’ll try doing it that way, instead of rotating engine to seat the distributor which is definitely happening should I rotate the oiler instead ? I’ve tried doing that but really hasn’t worked out pulling distributor out rotating oiler and trying to reinstall with no luck

Get the rotor positioned where the distributor gear is engaged with the cam gear such that the rotor will be pointing where you want it after it spirals down. Then rotate the engine to engage the oil pump shaft. The distributor gear rotates as it meshes down into the cam gear, thus it does not drop straight down on the oil pump intermediate shaft. Try doing it by the book.

From the Ford Manual:

 

[rdjinny]

Get the rotor positioned where the distributor gear is engaged with the cam gear such that the rotor will be pointing where you want it after it spirals down. Then rotate the engine to engage the oil pump shaft. The distributor gear rotates as it meshes down into the cam gear, thus it does not drop straight down on the oil pump intermediate shaft. Try doing it by the book.

From the Ford Manual:

View attachment 65529

Sounds like a plan I’ll try that today and hopefully it will work out, I’m making it harder than I should for sure. Thanks for your advice

 

[rdjinny]

Get the rotor positioned where the distributor gear is engaged with the cam gear such that the rotor will be pointing where you want it after it spirals down. Then rotate the engine to engage the oil pump shaft. The distributor gear rotates as it meshes down into the cam gear, thus it does not drop straight down on the oil pump intermediate shaft. Try doing it by the book.

From the Ford Manual:

View attachment 65529

Okay I did everything you suggested and it wouldn’t start just backfired, I said a few choice words started rotating distributor and it started, rotated that the oiler is pointing directly at the coil it’s running good but is this okay? Makes for getting distributor cap on and off difficult?

 

[Jim.ME]

Okay I did everything you suggested and it wouldn’t start just backfired, I said a few choice words started rotating distributor and it started, rotated that the oiler is pointing directly at the coil it’s running good but is this okay? Makes for getting distributor cap on and off difficult?

Good to hear you got it running.

There is no nice way to say this. It ended up as it did because of where you engaged the distributor gear into the cam gear. You did not allow properly for the rotation of the shaft, as those two helical gears fully meshed, to determined where the rotor would point when seated. As far as running, it will run fine if properly timed. Just because a picture in a book shows #1 at a certain position the reality is as long as the correct cap terminal is chosen for #1 plug wire and the wires go from there around in the proper firing order it will run and can be properly timed. As you are seeing it can be harder to access the clips for the cap, but that doesn't stop it from running. The only other issue might be if something interferes with rotating the distributor body enough to set the correct timing, then you might need to pull the distributor to change the location of the shaft (rotor button).

I didn't ask but does your distributor have the clip, on the shaft, under the rotor button? Make sure the clip is good so there is no slop in the rotor button fit on the shaft.

 

[rdjinny]

Good to hear you got it running.

There is no nice way to say this. It ended up as it did because of where you engaged the distributor gear into the cam gear. You did not allow properly for the rotation of the shaft, as those two helical gears fully meshed, to determined where the rotor would point when seated. As far as running, it will run fine if properly timed. Just because a picture in a book shows #1 at a certain position the reality is as long as the correct cap terminal is chosen for #1 plug wire and the wires go from there around in the proper firing order it will run and can be properly timed. As you are seeing it can be harder to access the clips for the cap, but that doesn't stop it from running. The only other issue might be if something interferes with rotating the distributor body enough to set the correct timing, then you might need to pull the distributor to change the location of the shaft (rotor button).

I didn't ask but does your distributor have the clip, on the shaft, under the rotor button? Make sure the clip is good so there is no slop in the rotor button fit on the shaft.

Yes the clip is installed, I was able to get it into time, I don’t know what they were thinking about the placement of the timing marks very hard to see. I’ll just leave it as it is and thanks for all the help

 

[rdjinny]

I was running tractor for a couple hours and then it just stopped running and wouldn’t start again it also had a Pertronix ignition,
I checked for spark and didn’t have any assuming the Pertronix went bad. Anyway I had another distributor that has new points and condenser gapped at 25 thousand set the flywheel at 26 degrees on compression stroke on 1 cylinder installed the new distributor and I’m having trouble getting the gears to mesh to point to the no.1 piston it goes down before and after I installed anyway and I have good spark but it will pop or backfire no matter how much I rotate the distributor what am I doing wrong?
Tested coil seems to be good, new plugs, plug wires are good I tried turning the oil pump to get distributor in the right direction but haven’t been successful.
Any suggestions I sure would appreciate it

Thanks in advance

I just wanted to say thank you all for all the input with my issue as of right now everything seems to be good, tried sending a couple pics with before and after rebuilding bit it saying it's to large. Again thanks again