Condenser/ Capacitor

[Ted in NE-OH]

The condenser is an automotive term. A capacitor is an electronic term. Same thing. For our tractors condensers (especially new ones ) are a problem, even the new ones go bad randomly.
A reliable capacitor is PN 224j630V It is .22mfd 630 volts and is available from Amazon for $7.00 for 10 pieces, you can't beat that!!

 

[Geo-TH,In]

The condenser is an automotive term. A capacitor is an electronic term. Same thing. For our tractors condensers (especially new ones ) are a problem, even the new ones go bad randomly.
A reliable capacitor is PN 224j630V It is .22mfd 630 volts and is available from Amazon for $7.00 for 10 pieces, you can't beat that!!

On Amazon you can also buy an electronic meter that measures everything, Including capacitors/condensers.
The meter costs less than $40. It is the red meter in the pic. I don't leave home without these meters in a togo bag.
Each meter in my pic has at least one special feature the others don't have.
I rarely have an issue with condensers. I have more issues with capacitors used on electric motors.

Edited:
Did you know in the early 1900's you made radios using home made capacitors using metal foil and paper or cardboard as the insulator. You would roll your own capacitors and dip them in wax to keep the moisture out. Take a condenser from a tractor apart and you will find metal foil and cardboard.

 

[wore out]

The condenser is an automotive term. A capacitor is an electronic term. Same thing. For our tractors condensers (especially new ones ) are a problem, even the new ones go bad randomly.
A reliable capacitor is PN 224j630V It is .22mfd 630 volts and is available from Amazon for $7.00 for 10 pieces, you can't beat that!!

Ah, YES, the chinese version of the old Sprague "Orange Drops"!

 

[Janicholson]

In early "tube" or Fleming valve) Devices they were called condensers. I remember them as that name. Jim

 

[used red MN]

A reliable capacitor is PN 224j630V It is .22mfd 630 volts

Not being an EE I am somewhat electrically dumb at this level. If you attached leads to this with alligator clips for the purpose of testing a suspected failing ignition condenser you would disconnect it in the distributor and connect this at the coil and run the engine? I suspect long term it is far less rugged and susceptible to failure from vibration, heat and moisture.

 

[MarkB_MI]

You've used this part in an automotive ignition system?

I agree it's hard to find a reliable automotive condenser these days; substituting an industrial-grade capacitor seems like a good solution.

 

[Geo-TH,In]

You've used this part in an automotive ignition system?

I agree it's hard to find a reliable automotive condenser these days; substituting an industrial-grade capacitor seems like a good solution.

Mark,
It's been a lifetime ago we had cars with points and condensers. Some time in the Early 70's cars went with electronic ignition and electronics voltage regulators. I recall converting my old mechanical regulator, one with relays, to an electronic voltage regulator.
I may be wrong, but I recall some places sold large condensers that were too big to fit next to the points. You mounted them next to the coil.
Some claimed the larger than normal condenser shortened the life of the points. I replaced condensers annually when I replaced points. I don't recall having a bad condenser back in the day. I had a Cub cadet lawn mower and never replaced the condenser.
Again that was a lifetime ago. Of course my long term memory is better than my short term memory. I open the Refrigerator door and have to ask myself, "Why did I opened the refrigerator door?"
I bet no one has that problem!

 

[Jim.ME]

Mark,
It's been a lifetime ago we had cars with points and condensers. Some time in the Early 70's cars went with electronic ignition and electronics voltage regulators. I recall converting my old mechanical regulator, one with relays, to an electronic voltage regulator.
I may be wrong, but I recall some places sold large condensers that were too big to fit next to the points. You mounted them next to the coil.
Some claimed the larger than normal condenser shortened the life of the points. I replaced condensers annually when I replaced points. I don't recall having a bad condenser back in the day. I had a Cub cadet lawn mower and never replaced the condenser.
Again that was a lifetime ago. Of course my long term memory is better than my short term memory. I open the Refrigerator door and have to ask myself, "Why did I opened the refrigerator door?"
I bet no one has that problem!

A large condenser (capacitor) mounted next to the coil, sounds like the old noise suppression capacitors used to quiet interference on auto radios. The lead connected to the coil + terminal. Some were installed on alternators as well.

 

[da.bees]

Hypothetically ,if the ignition condenser failed and a good condenser was connected at coil WITHOUT disconnecting old condenser, would ignition perform normal?

 

[wore out]

Hypothetically ,if the ignition condenser failed and a good condenser was connected at coil WITHOUT disconnecting old condenser, would ignition perform normal?

Depends upon how the installed condenser has failed, if "OPEN", the external test condenser should restore good spark.

If the installed condenser has failed "SHORTED" spark CAN'T be restored by an external test condenser while the shorted condenser is still in the circuit.

 

[Texasmark]

Mark,
It's been a lifetime ago we had cars with points and condensers. Some time in the Early 70's cars went with electronic ignition and electronics voltage regulators. I recall converting my old mechanical regulator, one with relays, to an electronic voltage regulator.
I may be wrong, but I recall some places sold large condensers that were too big to fit next to the points. You mounted them next to the coil.
Some claimed the larger than normal condenser shortened the life of the points. I replaced condensers annually when I replaced points. I don't recall having a bad condenser back in the day. I had a Cub cadet lawn mower and never replaced the condenser.
Again that was a lifetime ago. Of course my long term memory is better than my short term memory. I open the Refrigerator door and have to ask myself, "Why did I opened the refrigerator door?"
I bet no one has that problem!

Remember J.C.Whitney in Chicago? They fed the aftermarket market pretty well for the day. I don't know what happened to them.

 

[504]

I would expect it to continue to run ,a bad condenser mostly burns to open,not to short.

 

[John T]

Generally (not perfect or exact) if an automotive condenser is weak, open, or too small in rating, you might still get a spark albeit weaker snd points burn sooner,,,, However if way too big you may not get a spark at all and if dead shorted no spark at all

An analog ohm meter can help indicate if a condenser is totally bad like open or shorted (old kick back test) however it can’t show if it’s good or it’s rating like a true capacitor tester

A friend that runs a mag shop told me over half new condensors he buys are bad ir out of spec

Some condensors were used to reduce radio interference had nothing to do with ignition.

John T

 

[Phill Tibbetts]

Remember J.C.Whitney in Chicago? They fed the aftermarket market pretty well for the day. I don't know what happened to them.

I bought a lot of parts from them in my younger days. Seems the had just about everything

 

[wore out]

I would expect it to continue to run ,a bad condenser mostly burns to open,not to short.

"a bad condenser mostly burns to open,not to short"

That's an interesting "observation"!

Over the years I have found MANY to be shorted or at least "leaky" with may Allen condenser tester.

 

[Geo-TH,In]

Generally (not perfect or exact) if an automotive condenser is weak, open, or too small in rating, you might still get a spark albeit weaker snd points burn sooner,,,, However if way too big you may not get a spark at all and if dead shorted no spark at all

An analog ohm meter can help indicate if a condenser is totally bad like open or shorted (old kick back test) however it can’t show if it’s good or it’s rating like a true capacitor tester

A friend that runs a mag shop told me over half new condensors he buys are bad ir out of spec

Some condensors were used to reduce radio interference had nothing to do with ignition.

John T

Just wondering what is the MDF of mag or auto condenser?
Isn't the job of the condenser to provide an AC current path from one side of the coil to ground? The spark will be a few AC waves. It's not a DC spark
I can't get my head around how a condenser saves the points. There will always be a spark when the points open and turn off the 4-5 amp primary current off.
If a condenser saves the points, a switch, Would a condenser save the contacts on a water pump switch or air compressor switch?
Please keep your answer simple so a first grader like me can understand.

 

[TheBartman47]

Just wondering what is the MDF of mag or auto condenser?
Isn't the job of the condenser to provide an AC current path from one side of the coil to ground? The spark will be a few AC waves. It's not a DC spark
I can't get my head around how a condenser saves the points. There will always be a spark when the points open and turn off the 4-5 amp primary current off.
If a condenser saves the points, a switch, Would a condenser save the contacts on a water pump switch or air compressor switch?
Please keep your answer simple so a first grader like me can understand.

A condenser (capacitor) saving the contact points is necessary because it switches thousands of times per minute, where as a switch or relay contacts on a water pump only switches once in some minutes, so would not wear out anywhere near as much, but if you just really wanted to, you could put something like a run capacitor like what is used on air conditioners in circuit with your well pump. You would need to know or measure the inductance of your well pump in order to get an appropriate size capacitor to match it.

 

[JMOR]

 

[Janicholson]

Just wondering what is the MDF of mag or auto condenser?
Isn't the job of the condenser to provide an AC current path from one side of the coil to ground? The spark will be a few AC waves. It's not a DC spark
I can't get my head around how a condenser saves the points. There will always be a spark when the points open and turn off the 4-5 amp primary current off.
If a condenser saves the points, a switch, Would a condenser save the contacts on a water pump switch or air compressor switch?
Please keep your answer simple so a first grader like me can understand.

As the coil magnetic saturation collapses, the magnetic force passes through both the primary windings, and the secondary (where the high voltage is produced). At the instant the points break open, the ~4 am circuit is shut off, but in reality the voltage still tries to cross the increasing gap. The condenser (at that moment is not charged at all, and the voltage pushes into that "reservoir" limiting the arcing at the points. the coil magnetism is still collapsing and produces much higher voltage in the form of high frequency ac of 350 volts Peak to peak. This is also absorbed and reflected by the condenser as the coil magnetism is spent across the spark plug and the resistance in the wires/components. This is called "ringing".
In an AC electric motor the purpose of the capacitors is to modify the AC input phase in the starting windings this causes far greater starting torque from stopped and is a short term issue designed to be taken out of that circuit with a governed switch. The phase change issue is something to look up rather than spend a page of writing. The running capacitors on some motors also modify phase relationships increasing the efficiency of the design. Those are intended to stay in the circuit without heating. Jim

 

[Brown David]

Remember J.C.Whitney in Chicago? They fed the aftermarket market pretty well for the day. I don't know what happened to them.

The internet.