Converting from standard ignition to Electronic

[Don Eldreth]

I can see the benefits in converting from a standard ignition system to an electronic system, would it also be advisable to change the distributor at the same time.

 

[xicor37]

I'm a young'n (30). I grew up around electronics. I am an electrical engineer. I build cars from the ground up and prefer fuel injection over carbs. I make my own wiring harnesses. I program my own ECU's. In short I love electronics.

I really don't understand why people convert to electronic ignition though. Points work just fine. Sure they may break down more often but when they do you can fix them with a dime (literally)! Yeah, your electronic ignition may last longer but it [i:ae9705abfa]will[/i:ae9705abfa] break and when it does you're out of action until you can locate a new one. In the end your spark is igniting your fuel so there is really not even any performance/economy benefit.

To answer the question though, If the distributor is in good shape then there's no need to replace or rebuild it. However if it's 60+ years old then yeah it would be prudent to do so.

~Tyler

 

[Bob]

Typical add-on EI (PERTRONIX is LESS sensistive to some shaft bushing wear than points.

However, the centrifugal advance needs to be in good condition, operating freely and advancing to "spec" for the engine to operate at top power and efficiency.... something to check out if re-using the distributor.

 

[Dell (WA)]

Tyler.......excellent answer. There are many discussions about EI in the archives at the top of the page of this great N-Board. You pay $150 for an EI that doesn't fit the weird 4-nipple frontmount. The 5-nipple sidemount has plenty of room and EI works well. .......Dell, retired Electronics Engr

 

[Anonymous-0]

FOR XICOR. There are many old small tractors still in use that would benifit fron a full eletronic fuel system. Assumimg that you have other engineer friends , why don't you and others design new manifold and injection systems for these old units? Make them run for another half century.

 

[xicor37]

It wouldn't be terribly difficult. I once designed and fabricated a custom fuel injection system for my uncles cobra replica. He wanted the look of the dual high rise tunnel ram with two 4bbl carbs but the reliability of electronic injection. I gutted a couple of old holleys and used them as the throttle body. Machined injector bungs into the tunnels ram and programed a stand alone ECU for it. It worked wonderfully. The really fun part was figuring out the injector placement. there was a lot of room to play with the high rise tunnel ram and the distance of the injectors from the intake valves determined the RPM range of peak torque. Lots of time spent in calculations.

The problem with an N injection kit would be price. There's no way I could recoup engineering costs. It would be difficult at best even just to get cost of materials out of the kit. Might be a fun one off project though. Maybe on my 840

~Tyler

 

[Ultradog MN]

[i:654c4848f0]"when it does you're out of action until you can locate a new one"[/i:654c4848f0]

Not really.
You keep a set of points and condenser around and IF the EI goes out you stick them back in and keep on trucking till you get a new module for your EI.
In the meantime you get the benefit of less maintenance. You also get the benefit of optimum dwell all the time which results in slightly more HP and better fuel efficiancy.
You also don't care about a bit of wear in your distributer bushings as the air gap in isn't so critical as the point gap is.

 

[Bruce (VA)]

"I am an electrical engineer."

"I really don't understand why people convert to electronic ignition though."

Well, you're now at least the third EE on this board who has the same opinion of EI on a 60 year old tractor.

We just heard from one of them (Dell).
50 Tips

 

[Ken(Ark)]

I really don't understand why people convert to electronic ignition though.

Tyler

Most people dont convert to EI because it IS better but because it is easier to THEM .

I personally do not enjoy spending my time jerking a front mount , I would rather be out bush hoggin .

Either way I dont care , give a man his options and let him choose which system is best for him .

 

[Bob]

ED, NO NEED for MORE engineering/reinventing the wheel.

An outfit called Megasquirt has do-it-yourself fuel injection that will run ANYTHING you choose to install it on.

GOOGLE is your friend,"Megasquirt" is the word to GOOGLE.

 

[Hobo,NC]

(quoted from post at 20:14:22 10/31/10) I can see the benefits in converting from a standard ignition system to an electronic system, would it also be advisable to change the distributor at the same time.

Replacing the dist is your call,,, a successful conversion would propel ya to guru status... The swap does not bother me I can fix both no fancy degree needed,,, it does mess with those that can not fix both... They have some kinda cheap arse excuse,,, If I never seen a points set up are a carb again it would satisfy me,,, the unqualified who likes modern chit....

 

[Ultradog MN]

I'm just a carpenter - with a degree in literature and I approve this message.
This one and Hobo's above.

 

[xicor37]

I can repair either. It just doesn't bother me to set points and for the $150 for EI I can keep a spare distributor. Although I will admit I did speak without thinking as both my 840 and my 8n are side distributor. If I had a front distributor I would seriously consider EI.

~Tyler

 

[NOXJohn]

If you have any problems with the distributor or anything else it is best to make those repairs first before converting to EI. I have a 1949 front mount that I have converted to EI two years ago and consider it money well spent. I have owned this tractor for 22 years and my father had it for 25+ years before me. In all those years I have been the only one to work on it. I converted it to 12 volts when I rebuilt the engine for better head lights and to be able to use 12 volt equipment. My main reason for converting to EI was because of the difficulty in finding good front mount points and I also dislike getting down on my knees and fighting to get those two bolts out to remove the distributor. I am also an EE but it does not take an EE to install and set points or install EI. In two years (around 100 hours operation time) I have not had to mess with the distributor at all and my tractor still runs great. I have a side mount 1950 8N that is 12 volts but still has points. I do not plan on converting it to EI unless finding good points also becomes a problem.

 

[36 Coupe]

I put a drop of oil in the place provided on my 640 no bushing wear.Slightly more horsepower and fuel efficiancy.Thats BS.My points have lasted 24 years.Check the gap when spring work starts.I ve cleaned the points with a pocket knife 2 times when the engine stopped.If I had 150 bucks to spend today I would buy 6 more sheets of metal roofing for the barn tieup instead of blowing it on an uneeded solid state ignition.I dont call it electronic ignition because my point ignition uses electrons.A good set of points properly aligned with a good condenser will last a long time.Most ignition trouble is self inflicted by wanna be mechanics.

 

[Ultradog MN]

I hope you get your barn done. Winter is a coming and it's no fun on a roof then.
BTW, have you ever owned an N with a front mount distributer?

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 07:19:47 11/01/10) If you have any problems with the distributor or anything else it is best to make those repairs first before converting to EI. I have a 1949 front mount that I have converted to EI two years ago and consider it money well spent. I have owned this tractor for 22 years and my father had it for 25+ years before me. In all those years I have been the only one to work on it. I converted it to 12 volts when I rebuilt the engine for better head lights and to be able to use 12 volt equipment. My main reason for converting to EI was because of the difficulty in finding good front mount points and I also dislike getting down on my knees and fighting to get those two bolts out to remove the distributor. I am also an EE but it does not take an EE to install and set points or install EI. In two years (around 100 hours operation time) I have not had to mess with the distributor at all and my tractor still runs great. I have a side mount 1950 8N that is 12 volts but still has points. I do not plan on converting it to EI unless finding good points also becomes a problem.

E: complaints about removing/replacing front mount distributors. I bet a cup of coffee that the[i:aef8c4b316] majority of owners[/i:aef8c4b316] are much more capable of remove/replace the front mount successfully than side mount. Why? Because the front mt will only install ONE way, whereas the side mount will install into 11 positions plus a +/- variable adjustment, resulting in a virtual infinite variety of installation positions. The experienced can handle either with ease, but I am speaking about the [i:aef8c4b316]majority of owners[/i:aef8c4b316].

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 08:24:18 11/01/10) RE: complaints about removing/replacing front mount distributors. I bet a cup of coffee that the[i:2151476886] majority of owners[/i:2151476886] are much more capable of remove/replace the front mount successfully than side mount. Why? Because the front mt will only install ONE way, whereas the side mount will install into 11 positions plus a +/- variable adjustment, resulting in a virtual infinite variety of installation positions. The experienced can handle either with ease, but I am speaking about the [i:2151476886]majority of owners[/i:2151476886].

That is undoubtedly true. But there is that subset of inexperienced owners that bust one of the ears off the front distributor by installing it 180* out and cranking down on the bolts :roll: And of course unlike the front distributor the points on the side distributor are easily chaingeg in situ. Aside from a rebuild I can't think of any good reason to ever want to remove it.

TOH

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 14:33:36 11/01/10)

(quoted from post at 08:24:18 11/01/10) RE: complaints about removing/replacing front mount distributors. I bet a cup of coffee that the[i:f0be86fd6c] majority of owners[/i:f0be86fd6c] are much more capable of remove/replace the front mount successfully than side mount. Why? Because the front mt will only install ONE way, whereas the side mount will install into 11 positions plus a +/- variable adjustment, resulting in a virtual infinite variety of installation positions. The experienced can handle either with ease, but I am speaking about the [i:f0be86fd6c]majority of owners[/i:f0be86fd6c].

That is undoubtedly true. But there is that subset of inexperienced owners that bust one of the ears off the front distributor by installing it 180* out and cranking down on the bolts :roll: And of course unlike the front distributor the points on the side distributor are easily chaingeg in situ. Aside from a rebuild I can't think of any good reason to ever want to remove it.

TOH

hat he said.

 

[36 Coupe]

A friend has one and I worked for a farmer who had an 8n.The tractor was about 10 years old an never had all the problems I see on here.It plowed a long driveway that had to be open for the milk truck.Ive owned 8 Ford cars with a front mount distributor ,never had trouble with them except for a broken point spring.There was a 48 Ford dump truck that had to start every day to haul manure away from the barn.There 46 /48 Ford car distributor is a lot like the tractor front mount.The car and truck points fit the tractor.The dump truck did need some help from a battery charger because it didnt run long enough to recharge the battery in cold weather.Another friend has 2 9ns that he uses only in the summer time for bush hogging and plowing a garden spot.I cant finish the barn roof,just doing 20 feet of a 74 foot roof.I keep 9n ignition parts in the shop for friends.

 

[John (TR)]

Good luck on the next set lasting that long, the parts today are junk and the caps/rotors don't even line up let alone the screw holes in the points. If we were still getting quality points like we were 20 years ago thing would be different.

 

[Hobo,NC]

Allot of what I was think'n has been posted... The whole issue FM are SM actually boils down to only 1 in 10K know how to work on a dist,,, the rest have no ID how to tell if their chit is worn out... The hole EI/points deal is based on experience form folks that don't know to begin with... Folks either don't know don't wanna know so they are skeered,,, those that have successfully got pass their fears are happy campers and would not go back to standard ignition,,, wonder why....

Its a fact some folks have the money and enjoy spending it on their tractor car are what ever,,, they don't need excuses... Just the skeered need to make'em up....

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 19:40:29 11/01/10) Allot of what I was think'n has been posted... The whole issue FM are SM actually boils down to only 1 in 10K know how to work on a dist,,, the rest have no ID how to tell if their chit is worn out... The hole EI/points deal is based on experience form folks that don't know to begin with... Folks either don't know don't wanna know so they are skeered,,, those that have successfully got pass their fears are happy campers and would not go back to standard ignition,,, wonder why....

Its a fact some folks have the money and enjoy spending it on their tractor car are what ever,,, they don't need excuses... Just the skeered need to make'em up....

ee Willie Wonkers, Hobo...don't ya think some might oughta bee skeered? After all there have been people on these boards for years telling other people how bad, how great the loss in spark will be if they have the dreaded reverse polarity spark (positive instead of negative). I mean, how in the world will them little ol 'lectrons ever be able to jump from that cold side electrode onto that hotter center electrode??? How oh how? You do know that a Pertronix EI conversion on a front mount yields a positive polarity spark don't you? No matter if 12v neg gnd or 6v positive ground,...still a Positive spark polarity. :idea:

 

[Ultradog MN]

[i:654c4848f0]"Its a fact some folks have the money and enjoy spending it on their tractor car are what ever"[/i:654c4848f0]

Hear, hear.

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 22:54:01 11/01/10) [i:d3b11a0926]"Its a fact some folks have the money and enjoy spending it on their tractor car are what ever"[/i:d3b11a0926]

Hear, hear.

specially that "what ever" part.

 

[36 Coupe]

Spending money for things you dont NEED is stupid.My 2000 dollar truck does all that I need so I dont want a new 40000 dollar truck.A fool and his money are soon parted.Theres an old story about a carpenter who sold his tools on Saturday for rum money.He couldt work come Monday,no tools...

 

[Ultradog MN]

Thanks Coupe,
I know you're just trying to look out for us - in your own way.
But did you ever consider that the pain of your protection is worse than the results of our folly?

 

[Hobo,NC]

If it makes ya sterile I'm fer it,,, a waist spark benefit....

 

[36 Coupe]

Dont care.If you want to be foolish do it.