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Brad Buchnan

Member
Looking for some wisdom...

I burn shelled corn to heat my home. I currently buy in bulk from a dealer but would like to explore the possibility of producing my own corn.

I currently have an 8N, ripper plow and a decent set of disc harrows.

I would like to produce with app. 5 acres for now.

For now I wil probably hire out the seeding/spraying but I am intrested in machinery to go from standing plants to shelled corn in my gravity wagon in the least amoun of steps.

I have a plan for drying the corn after it is shelled.

Any info or feedback would be appreciated.

Brad
 
You'd need either a combine or a picker-sheller. If you are doing this to save money, you are fooling yourself in my opinion.
 
Reminds me of that thing that was being passed around back in the 70s about the true cost of burning wood. Been a long time ago,but had to do with the original cost of the stove,the chainsaw,a 4 wheel drive pickup,led to the cost of the broken rear window in the pickup,the burned carpet in the house....led to one heck of a high cost of heating.
Sometimes it's just best to leave it up to the folks who do it for a living.
 
LOL
another
"I got me an 8N and I'm gonna be a farmer" guy.....
you realize that even with big efficient equipment it cost the guys in IA 3.79 to make a bushel of corn don't you? And they are talking over 4 this year.

You will need to find an old picker and some sort of sheller. Or a combine of some sort.
You may be able to pull the picker with an 8N. Doubtful on the combine unless you can find one with a motor that will do corn, I've heard guys say they will but the fact that you very rarely if ever actually see it done would lead me to believe that doing corn with an old pull behind combine is a losing proposition.
You can still find old pickers around and a nice hand sheller will run you 60 or so for a basic model to almost 300 for a really fancy one.
A picker with a sheller unit on it would be too much for your little tractor. I have a 2 row with a sheller and it's all a 70HP tractor wants to do to pull it around.

Personally I'd find a farmer somewhere that will sell his corn by the bag a little cheaper than the mill and support him.
 
Main part of the equation is figuring out cost of self production vs. commercial bought.

Figure on what your local average yield of corn per acre is(can get info from local ag extension office). Figure in what cost to spray and seed from local estimates. There are some figures on cost of farm equipment including depreciation and fuel, etc with all the goodies on Google. Helped me and wife figure out what kind of crop we wanted to do.

USDA Report found from Google on corn crop costs and yields

Take a look at your prices for store bought and compare what it would cost you to produce. Just remember that corn worms and other pests are a bugger. So anything that you spray with [b:92993055ef][i:92993055ef][u:92993055ef]may[/u:92993055ef][/i:92993055ef][/b:92993055ef] end up as fumes in the household.

You more than likely will find that leaving it to the big commercial farms that use their corn for popcorn or other types of food may produce this a non waste byproduct and can do cheaper than you can. Having the option as an emergency backup is always a good idea. Just not sure if such a small operation will make it worthwhile. I say this having only 3 acres myself presently. Just a FWIW. Take a minute to look it over before you leap.

Good luck and let us know what you figure out. It may help someone else later too.
 
Don't believe that you would want to maintain/repair a self-propelled combine for five acres. I would probably look for a single row picker and some type of small shelling unit. JD made several that were PTO driven, but you would need to feed them slowly because your 8N is really under powered for that job and marginal for a picker. The portable feed grinders had an optional sheller attachment, and if one could be found, just use the sheller and not the grinder. I have a NI 314 sheller which fits on a NI 325 or 324 snapping unit and it wouldn't be too difficult to leave it unattached/stationary and add/construct a PTO drive. For some help to get it out and $100 it probably would be yours. Bought it 20 years ago for $500 and never used it. Located in the back of the shed and surrounded, so not willing to fool around getting it out for less. Don't believe anybody made a sheller for a single row picker, but if they did, certainly would be hard to locate one. Another option would be to find a NI Uni power unit with sheller and head. Not much if any demand, so would be cheap and likely less maintainance than a combine. Still another engine to maintain. How about a old single hole hand-powered crank sheller modified to run with an electric motor? Depending on the yield, five acres would still be quite a bit of work with this small unit.
Personally I would probably buy a cheap planter such as a JD 294 or 494, and do the seeding. Hire someone to do the spraying and combining. Would also consider cultivating rather than using chemicals. As the others have already mentioned, likely you aren't going to save money.
 
That's funny,"figure your local average yield",LOL,then divide by ten for a begining farmer!
Does anybody ever watch reruns of Green Acres?
 

Well yes I do want to use my 8N to produce corn. I burn corn because it saves me money but just as much because I like the idea of buying my fuel from a local source and not from some country such as Iran which hates the USA.

I paid $180 per ton this season and I imagine if I am producing my own fuel it will probably cost me more, but so be it.

The same reason I put in a small apple orchard. I am sure I could by apples cheaper at wal-mart but there is such a thing as self-sufficency.

Brad
 
Hey, thanks for the feedback. I appreciate all of it (even the wiseguy stuff....I have been known to do the same).

Actually it could be a nice project to see if I can take some old machines and alter them to fit my purpose.

I am fortunate to have some limited weld/fab capabilities and the time to indulge myself.

Brad
 
Actually my family emigrated from Scotland and settled in northern Minnesota near Albert Lea in the early 1800's.

I spent my childhood on the farm and have many fond memories from that time.

I have found farming folk to be almost always friendly and accomadating.

What do you do for a living??

Brad
 
Central Illinois near Peoria. Not worth considering unless you are within a 100 miles or so. Probably would advertise locally for something similar or even better yet a ready-to-go JD PTO unit or equivalent. Also note the correct planter model; the suggested two row model should be a 290 rather than a 294.
 
I was on the farm in the 1950's. We had a neighbor that farmed 320 with 3 of the 8n's and had 1 for back up. They were big men the old man & 2 son's were 6.2-6.4 tall you could hear those little Fords about 6 am in the morn & were still running at 6pm. They cultivated corn 3 times and row soybeans 2 times. There is a lot of the Ford equipment around if you look for it.I live around Champaign & we have members in our tractor club that have corn picker & small combines Come to our July & August show and see the old equipment in action.We will be picking, combining and shelling at the Rantoul,IL. Half Century Show in late August. Email if you need more info. Earl In Illinois
 
At $180 per ton, that is 9 cents per pound, There is 56 pounds in a bushel of corn so your cost is $5.04 per bushel.

What are your yield goals on your acres? It will take about 1.1 lbs of nitrogen, about 0.5 lbs of potash (K) and about 0.25 Phosphate (P) per bushel of production. You will also have weed chemicals and seed costs. Triple stack seed corn is around $220 per bag. If you plant 30,000 population, seed cost will be $82.50 per acre. The price of fun adds up in a hurry,

NH3 is $750 per ton at 82% N. 200 bu goal is 1.1X200 is 220 lbs of NH3. Only 82% is actual N so you will need to apply 268 lbs per acre. Times 5 acres is 1340 lbs. 1340 is 0.67 tons times $750 equals $502.50 in nitrogen costs.

You can check prices in your area but so far, just seed and nitrogen, you will have $915 invested in 5 acres.

You still have Chemical, P and K to go plus gas for the 8N.

Good luck as it will be fun and a learning experience. Give it a try, you can't learn if you don't try.

If you do get 200 bu per ac, that is 28 tons of corn.
 
Hey James 22 I am not trying to push in on this topic. I have a NI 324 two row picker and am looking for a sheller unit for mine. I am getting started farming. It is a long way home from where I live in Minnesota, but maybe I could talk my wife into a road trip. I don't want to take it from the person you offered it, but maybe it is still for sale. You can email me, my email is open.
 
Well there is a coincidence!!

I am also trying to bone up enough to raise a couple of beef on a four acre piece that I own.

I have questions...fencing..breeds..cow and calf...breeds..

Perhaps I could pick your brain a litte from time to time.

Brad
 
I just went past the local elevator. Corn is $6.24 a bu. Due to the weather this year the yield was down 30-35 bu per acre this year yet the cost to produce it were the same.
 
actually that does not seem way out of line..I use 6 ton or so and here in NNY good quality stove corn was sellin at $12.50 per hundredweight and that was before the fuel went up.

Thanks for the info....I have lots to learn.

Brad
 
Farmers did at one time produce corn with 8Ns. A Dearborn/Wood Brothers 1 row picker was designed for it. Forget about doing any kind of field shelling unless you want the hassle of an old combine. If you are hiring planting and spraying done, have it done no-till. If you are insistant on doing your own tillage, get a spring-tooth harrow chain harrow to use before you plant, plow and disk just isn't smooth enough and your sprayer will gripe about bouncing. Now if you get your own planter, you'll have to set on a row spacing that someone can harvest for you if you have to hire it out. Probably 30" rows. You can get close enough on the guess rows with a 2-row by setting your tractor wheels to 60" centers and following your wheel tracks back and forth, so that a 6 row combine head can follow. I'd just pick, elevate into a crib, and let it air dry before you shell it with a stationary sheller.
 
Thanks!! This is the stuff I come here for. Actually I remember in Minn. They had a gadget that would pick the ears and leage the husk sticking out.
These ears were stored in rectangular bins to air dry and then shelled. the shelled corn was stored in round bins.

Brad
 
J, you price fuel or fertilizer or seed for planting 2011???

Most farmers are about 70% sold on their 2010 crop long before these prices showed up, so the windfall will not be so great.

Land was selling for $4600 an acre around here; 2 parcels last week in the area sold for over $6500 an acre. Rent prices will also be up.

No free lunch.

Picking corn on the ear with a picker, storing it in a crib which has 50% or better air spaces to allow wind to blow through in 6 foot or so widths lets you harvest your corn at 24% moisture or a tad more in cold climates. Picker like my NI 300 cost in the $100-200 neighborhood and will pick 5 acres for many years.

Combining it and storing in a bin it needs to be dried to 14%. Combine will cost $300 - 1000, and they are a bear to maintain for 5 acres.

Just wanting to do it is cool, I can totally understand that.

The thing a newbie won't understand, or get, is the big big big deal on groing profitable corn.

Weed control.

Young corn hates hates hates being shaded by weeds, and will ruin it's early root system to outgrow weeds around it - and then have poor roots for the rest of it's life. No way to fix that after it happens.

Weed control. _No_ shade....


--->Paul
 
Plant it, let field dry and shuck it on the ear. Then all you would need is a planter,a sheller, a wagon and maybe a Clipper seed cleaner.5 acres is not that much to shuck if you are young.
 
Brad,
all the talk is based on a 8N Ford which is a great little tractor and many were sold.

But, if you would consider trading up to a 3600 or 4000 Ford or 165 Fergy or any brand tractor with 45-55 hp you expand your farming options.
Consider a diesel tractor, fuel cost would be much less and you would get a live clutch which is one of the best tractor options.

This size tractor would be able to pull a one row new idea or JD picker. You could buy a pto driven sheller and then you would be good to go.

You would have the eq for many years and it could pay for itself.

however, as others have said you will not be able to compete cost wise with someone growing 500 ac + of corn on cost per ac.

But there is pride in doing it yourself and for many of us that is worth a great deal.

Plus, i like visiting farm sales and dealers back lots, you can pickup older eq that big farmers no longer want or can use.
another place to look for eq is your local scrap metal dealer, if you can befriend him he may call you when a item comes in that you need in fair to good condition.

Just some food for thought!!!

good luck.

list of eq you may need.
tractor, plow, disc, planter, cultivator, sprayer, picker, wagons, sheller, storage barn.
 
Brad, you can get a three point hitch sheller. I have one. It's a Halban, which I think have went out of business. I would think there are some still around, or someone is making new ones.
 
My grandfather farmed his 40 acres in semi retirement with a 52 8N and had a 2 row mounted jd planter. and 2 row ford cultivator. he had a N.I. IDEA #7 one row picker he pulled with The 8N. he did some custom picking around here with it. Another neighbor had an jubilee he did custom work with a allis all crop combine . I imagine it had the motor on the all cropThere is nothing you cant do if you put your mind to it. First off all the big boys are playing a game of chasing a carrot that they will never get in the never ending game of get big or get out.None of them have enough land to farm big enough to keep the magazines, their advertisers and the banks happy.If it all gets down to one farm and 0one farmer he will be complaining he cannot get bigger.You already own the land so look at it this way. You do not have to play the game of trying to rent it, You can get plaenty of manure from horse people around for free for fertilizer.You do not need super exspensive seed corn. if close to a hundred or less bushel to the acre is all you need there is open pollinated you can buy and then save for next years seed , {Assuming monsanto doesnt find it a threat and "finds " GMO contamination in it and "confiscates it since the govt. allows them to do so. You can get by without weed killer by rotary hoeing and cultivating and there are lots of two row equipment around reasonable.The way i look at it and many do is you have the land and the equipment from your hobby or necsesity of mowing and plowing snow might as well enjoy it more and grow your heat and some quality food with it.
 
Sorry so long but check out online, The NEW FARM.: FARM SHOW magazine: GENE LOGSDON: and FARMING magazine published in MT. Hope,ohio.Lots of small guys out there now and the amish are not disapearing either.!Dont be suckered into thinking only the bg boys can do it, You do not need 5000 acres to be able to grow corn.Also for some good ideas check out scroungeman blog in missouri. he used an 8N and another bigger tractor.
 
Somebody is distributing a new corn sheller made in India, I think, that is meant for small tractors, but I can't remember the name of the outfit. It's one of those small-machinery specialist places . . . .
 
Thanks Tim. I think that you really understand what I am trying to do. If I wanted a 100hp tractor I would buy one. I kinda like my 8N probably because I spent probably thousands of hours on one when I was a kid.

Thanks for the interest and I will do my best to keep you all posted and perhaps entertained s bit.

Brad
 
You know, reading through this thread and the replies I find it interesting how many people try to dicourage you from trying this by making a claim that you can't grow corn as cheap as you can buy it.

Makes me wonder if it costs these guys $5+ a bushel to grow it...how do they manage to keep doing it and why would they want to?

I call BS, you can make..or save a bit on planting your own 5 acres if you do it right. Afterall you only use what 6 tons a winter? Why the heck would you need to fertilize for 200 bushel corn to get 6 tons off of 5 acres? Thats only 12 thousand pounds of corn off of 5 acres, at 56#/bushel thats only an average of about 43 bushel per acre. Why would you need to buy $220 per unit corn to burn?

Buy some cheap blended hybrid seed, probably be roundup ready $135/bag here and will plant about three acres =$45/acrex5=$225 for seed
$20/acre for custom spraying with chemical
$100/acre for enough fertilizer for 100 bushel corn provided your ground is fair and you get any rain.

$165/acre inputs = $825 for 5 acres
$ equipment yearly costs/fuel/planter/tractor,etc
$ your time
$ cost of your land
If you have plenty of time to do it, the equipment won't cost much and it's a long term investment, and you already have the ground, it looks to me like you are fine and in good shape and that is figuring 14 ton production, you only need 6 so you'll have an est 285 bushel left to sell or keep or whatever. Sell it for $6/bushel and thats about $1700 you can throw at your equipment or taxes or whatever.
I haven't figured why you're getting such bad advice, maybe they didn't allow for the cost of the ground? Some of these guys are paying 10K per acre so that could be it I suppose.
 
Where do you get $20 an acre for spraying? Almost double that for RR corn 'here' on small fields. But we can't hire a another farmer to do it, must have certified custom applicator. Farmers can only do their own on personal license.
 
Hmm, local cost difference then. I know the costs here for custom spraying...not there. Roundup costs about $4 per acre here, spraying rate is $5/acre thats $9/acre and we usually spray with atrazine here as well which is allowed here so one spraying with At and one Roundup usually comes out around $20+/-.


All relative anyway, he has plenty of room for $40 per acre spray (an increas of $20/acre).

At $180/ton purchase he would have to exceed $504 per acre input costs to be in the hole if he can raise 100 bu/ac corn.

$165+$20 = $185 per acre
100bu/ac = 5600lbs = 2.8 tons/acre
$180/ton x 2.8 tons/ac = $504/acre
$504 - $185 = $319/ac left

With depreaciation he should be able to get the equipment he needs well within the extra $319/ac.
He doesn't need top of the line seed, fertilizer quantities or equipment for 5 acres of fuel corn and an 8N operation with a goal of 100bu/ac corn. As long as he works within that sort of a budget he's fine.
Doesn't matter how long corn stays at $6 a bushel either, inputs usually adjust accordingly to an extent. If price drops and inputs don't....there won't be an issue on him raising it as apposed to a big farmer now will there...we'll all be in the hole anyway, the big guys can't raise it at a loss either.

Haha, I'm not trying to pick a fight, just pointing out some things. There's been a lot of good advice on here as well, the remark about "another guy with an 8N who thinks he's a farmer" was pretty abbrasive though.
 
Oh and he could save some more money by getting an applicators license and spraying 5 acres with an ATV or his 8N for that matter. A little spray rig is cheap as dirt (cheaper as a matter of fact). You can pick one up at most any auction then he can spray for cost of chemical.
 
I'm all for him doing it, but only if he enjoys doing all of it, fixing machinery included. Just doing it with old equipment with the sole intent of saving money can be frustrating and discouraging to the point of quitting and cussing it all.

BTW, applicator's licenses are getting to be a pain 'here' because the credit requirements keep going up, and now it looks like if you own an agricultural sprayer of any kind, you will be required to have lockup storage and washout containment facilities for it on the farm . . . . anything to make it harder. There's probably fees involved, too . . . state's broke, you know.
 
Don't discount the physical and mental benefit you will gain in this endeaver.Many people spend their money and time at a "Shrink" or Gym trying to acheive the stress releiving benefits your corn growing project produces. go for it.JH
 
Haha, yeah thats true, if he ends up hating the process he isn't going to save enough to make it worth while for sure.

Yeah I had to renew my app license last year and I caught that part as well. It's not required here yet as far as I know but even if it is I can deal with that. You're right though, anything to cut us out of a bit of profit, thats not to mention EPA standards for clean water, clean air, and on farm fuel storage. Rough times ahead for sure.
 
Go for it. My Grandfather farmed 80 acres with an 8n. Raised 10 kids and pd for the land long before he retired. He had all the implements including a picker. I remember seeing it in a fence row as a kid. They had a guy the would come around and shell the corn out of the crib. Seemed to be a self contained rig he pulled behind his pickup. Too far back for me to remember exactly what it was. My brother,cousins and I took turns scooping corn and killing rats. Big fun.
 
We raised 3 acres of corn every year for the two cows 4 pigs and 25 chickens. all we had was a C allischalmers. Planted with a two row planter. and cultivated till the corn was two to three fet high. never sprayed or fertilized. dryed in the field and picked by hand. shelled with a hand crank one hole sheller. for a small field it worked out very well. It took about a half hour to pick a trailer load by hand after its dry the cobs just snap off easy. I would pick one load each day till it was done.
 
First off glad to see you are just farming for fun. so profit loss doesn't really mean anything ( within reason). as far as buying a picker you could allways just pick a little at a time and buy an old hand crank sheller convert it to electric shell it as you need it let it finish drying by the stove. if you hunt deer you will want to place your deer stand down wind from you giant feed plot. if you get some cattle let them graze your corn stalks after you harvest it. they will eat a lot of it and make spring plowing easier. good luck
 
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