Crank Pully Movement

[Larryb2020]

I have a side distributor 8n. Today while working on the 12 volt conversion I noticed the crank pulley is free to slide about 1/2 inch off the crank. I did not go any further because I did not want to have to figure out how to put it back on. I got a mirror and looked in the pully center hole to see it there was a nut or bolt to tighten. What I found was what looked like a heavy slotted screw head or maybe it's a slot in the crank. Nothing to put a wrench on. I tried a big screwdriver in the slot and it was tight. Is this normal. Can I just let the pulley float on the crank. The belt tends to hold it close to the motor when running. Thanks larry

 

[old]

It should not do as your is doing. As for the slot sort of part you see that is the bolt that is set up to use a hand crank on which is the factory part. But if you look closer at it there should also be a head on it like that of a bolt so it can be removed and or tighten up and yes it need to be tighten but it could also be bad from years of the crank pulley sliding in and out and that could well have messed up the treads

 

[mhb@ufe]

I think from what he is describing it has the slotted head bolt that was used when loader pump drive hubs were installed. If that is what he has and the washer was missing the pulley could slide over the bolt head.

Mark

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 13:26:00 12/15/11) I have a side distributor 8n. Today while working on the 12 volt conversion I noticed the crank pulley is free to slide about 1/2 inch off the crank. I did not go any further because I did not want to have to figure out how to put it back on. I got a mirror and looked in the pully center hole to see it there was a nut or bolt to tighten. What I found was what looked like a heavy slotted screw head or maybe it's a slot in the crank. Nothing to put a wrench on. I tried a big screwdriver in the slot and it was tight. Is this normal. Can I just let the pulley float on the crank. The belt tends to hold it close to the motor when running. Thanks larry

What Mark said and do not ignore it. If it is loose on teh crank it will damage the end over time and you will have a much more serious (and expensive) problem to deal with.

TOH

 

[Larryb2020]

Mark's got it right. After some more looking it appears the bolt is a large slotted pan head. The head diameter is slightly smaller than the inside diameter of the pulley. The washer has worn away or disappeared. Now the pulley is free to float. The pulley is the type with the four holes for mounting a pump shaft. I hope to remove the bolt without removing the whole front end. I tried a large screwdriver with a wrench on it but the bolt is to tight. I have a hand held hammer driven impact driver with a large flat bit. I tried lightly hitting it but the bolt is too tight. Can I really belt it with a good size hammer or will I damage something further down the crank like a thrust bearing?? Also can I use my air driven impact gun? I think it will jump the bit out of the slot. Anyone have any suggestions?? I thought I was almost done with my 12 volt conversion. Now I'm working on the crank pulley and potentially pulling the front end. Sounds like that's a good thing since it can only get worse and more expensive. I am glad I like working on these old critters!!! Thanks for any ideas on how to bring the necessary pressure to bear on that rascal of a bolt larry

 

[jackinok]

it seems like it never ends doesnt it,LOL.every time i look at mine i find something else. MY opinion is you would be safe giving it a good smack with your impact driver. The only other option i could see would be to get the pulley off and put a pipe wrench or something of the sort on the bolt. Especialy if it doesnt have a hex head for a wrench. Impact wrench might do it IF you could hold it in the slot but it might only turn the crank.

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 17:20:13 12/15/11) Mark's got it right. After some more looking it appears the bolt is a large slotted pan head. The head diameter is slightly smaller than the inside diameter of the pulley. The washer has worn away or disappeared. Now the pulley is free to float. The pulley is the type with the four holes for mounting a pump shaft. I hope to remove the bolt without removing the whole front end. I tried a large screwdriver with a wrench on it but the bolt is to tight. I have a hand held hammer driven impact driver with a large flat bit. I tried lightly hitting it but the bolt is too tight. Can I really belt it with a good size hammer or will I damage something further down the crank like a thrust bearing?? Also can I use my air driven impact gun? I think it will jump the bit out of the slot. Anyone have any suggestions?? I thought I was almost done with my 12 volt conversion. Now I'm working on the crank pulley and potentially pulling the front end. Sounds like that's a good thing since it can only get worse and more expensive. I am glad I like working on these old critters!!! Thanks for any ideas on how to bring the necessary pressure to bear on that rascal of a bolt larry

Your best bet is the impact gun and a good screwdriver bit. If you booger up that slot it's going to be He!! to get out. I'd strongly suggest removing the front axle support to get good access - it's not all that hard. Jack under the oil pan, unbolt the outer axles from the center section, and lay alll of that off to the side along with the radius rods. Remove the hood and radiator. Now unbolt and remove the axle support and center axle section as a unit. I've done this a lot....

TOH

 

[Anonymous-0]

I agree with one of the previous statements that the thread are now damage. Your efforts to tighten can not be done if that is the case. The screw driver is only tighting the nut. I suggest putting a socket on the nut and put an extension through the crank hole in the grill. Loosen the nut, take it off and install sufficient washer so it is tight It may require removal of the hood and radiator. Whatever, it needs to be repaired. Good luck.

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 18:20:22 12/15/11) I agree with one of the previous statements that the thread are now damage. Your efforts to tighten can not be done if that is the case. The screw driver is only tighting the nut. I suggest putting a socket on the nut and put an extension through the crank hole in the grill. Loosen the nut, take it off and install sufficient washer so it is tight It may require removal of the hood and radiator. Whatever, it needs to be repaired. Good luck.

There is no nut - just the slotted 5/8-18 flathead screw and there is no way for the threads to get damaged. It is just screwed down tight and it either comes out with the screwdriver bit or a drill. Take the axle support off, get up close, and use the impact wrench with a screw driver bit - it is your best bet. You cannot turn the crank with an impact wrench no matter how hard you try. That's why professional shops use them to remove things like PS pulleys, water pump pulleys, and harmonic balancers - you can hold the rotatiing part stationary with your hand while applying loads of momentary torque :idea: I predict short work of that screw if you follow that strategy. Your main concern is to not damage the slot!!!

TOH

PS> My solution to that silly slotted screwand special lock washer is to use a standard flat head socket screw and a custom made countersunk washer. You can get a really good grip on the screw with a 3/8" hex key and tno way that washer is ever coming over that screw. I have them if you want one.

 

[mhb@ufe]

A 7/8 inch wide bit will fit the slot prettygood and you could use an extension through the axle center pin hole and put the air wrench to it. If that doesn.t work you will need to pull the front end as TOH advised. It is tight because it is screwed in all the way not because of damaged threads.

Mark

 

[Hobo,NC]

Their is no washer behind the bolt,,, be prepared to do what ever is needed to replace the crank pulley with the other version... Your set up is the chit'e set up I think the # for the good pulley is 192160... Once you have the axle support off a hammer and chisel will knock the screw loose.... throw the screw away and get a bolt for your new pulley your old one is trashed... And hope it did not ware the crank snout bad enuff that your new pulley is loose once installed BTDT and got the T-shirt....

 

[Larryb2020]

Oldhokie you are exactly right on eliminating that slotted screw. Not the best design to torque to 150 ft lbs and then have to get off. I am going to pull the front end off on Sat so I can get up close and personal with that bolt. You are right the threads I am sure are undamaged. Question will the hand driven impact driver deliver more shock load then my standard 1/2" CP air gun which tops at about 100 to 125 ft lbs. If the slot gets twisted in the process can I grind the bolt head completely off so there is no longer any pressure on it then cut a new slot in the shank. It should spin right out then with all the torque relieved. If that does not work then I will break out the drills. Is the bolt length 1 inch? I would like to talk to you about getting one of your custom bolt-washer combos. Call me 518 279-9370. Thanks to everyone for their advice. A couple of hours ago my mind was as clear as mud on what to do. Now I have a plan and a solution. Thanks again larry. P.S.will repost an update after my Sat session

 

[Larryb2020]

Oldhokie you are exactly right on eliminating that slotted screw. Not the best design to torque to 150 ft lbs and then have to get off. I am going to pull the front end off on Sat so I can get up close and personal with that bolt. You are right the threads I am sure are undamaged. Question will the hand driven impact driver deliver more shock load then my standard 1/2" CP air gun which tops at about 100 to 125 ft lbs. If the slot gets twisted in the process can I grind the bolt head completely off so there is no longer any pressure on it then cut a new slot in the shank. It should spin right out then with all the torque relieved. If that does not work then I will break out the drills. Is the bolt length 1 inch? I would like to talk to you about getting one of your custom bolt-washer combos. Call me 518 279-9370. Thanks to everyone for their advice. A couple of hours ago my mind was as clear as mud on what to do. Now I have a plan and a solution. Thanks again larry. P.S.will repost an update after my Sat session

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 23:29:48 12/15/11) Oldhokie you are exactly right on eliminating that slotted screw. Not the best design to torque to 150 ft lbs and then have to get off. I am going to pull the front end off on Sat so I can get up close and personal with that bolt. You are right the threads I am sure are undamaged. Question will the hand driven impact driver deliver more shock load then my standard 1/2" CP air gun which tops at about 100 to 125 ft lbs. If the slot gets twisted in the process can I grind the bolt head completely off so there is no longer any pressure on it then cut a new slot in the shank. It should spin right out then with all the torque relieved. If that does not work then I will break out the drills. Is the bolt length 1 inch? I would like to talk to you about getting one of your custom bolt-washer combos. Call me 518 279-9370. Thanks to everyone for their advice. A couple of hours ago my mind was as clear as mud on what to do. Now I have a plan and a solution. Thanks again larry. P.S.will repost an update after my Sat session

I wouldn't expect the screw to twist under the impact but a lot depends on the condition and age of the fastener. And yes the length is roughly 1". I like the air wrench because it produces repeated impacts and I'm impatient but either one should work. If you are ever going to use the pulley to drive a front pump I am right there with Hobo - switch to the splined hub setup which uses a different style pulley (p/n 192160) shown below. If all you want is to fix what you have and don't expect to add a pump your pulley and the socket head bolt setup will work just fine and is only a few bucks. I'll give you a call in a bit.

TOH

 

[Hobo,NC]

Not the best design to torque to 150 ft lbs

I don't think its wise to lean on the crank bolt that much... Even if theirs merit to that figger why 150,,, 80 to 100 is more than enuff... I guarantee its impossible for that P.O.S. screw to be nailed down even close to that... For the record their is a lock washer behind the slotted head bolt but its the same size as the head of the bolt...

@150 you are taking a big chance of snap'n the head off a OEM bolt... Even with TOH's improved set up I would shy away from 150...

 

[mhb@ufe]

Having a washer or not is dependant on which pulley he has. For example th 19-8 used a pulley with a washer and lock washer. Because the bolt is tight and the pulley still moves I think he has the style that needs a washer.

Mark

 

[mark borys]

glad t see others having the same problem in removing the front crank pulluy. i have a 52 8n with a slotted screw, with the 4 gromlet holes as i have a bucket and the pump connects to it. the holes are egged and pulley needs to be replaced. I heard all the ideas listed. Is this a left hand thread o right hand. I can,t get it to move in either direction. Been using a hand held hammer rotator. I will try a impact hammer next . lefty loosy or righty loosey
Thanks
M Borys 2021 783 3525

 

[TheOldHokie]

(quoted from post at 20:32:14 01/17/12) glad t see others having the same problem in removing the front crank pulluy. i have a 52 8n with a slotted screw, with the 4 gromlet holes as i have a bucket and the pump connects to it. the holes are egged and pulley needs to be replaced. I heard all the ideas listed. Is this a left hand thread o right hand. I can,t get it to move in either direction. Been using a hand held hammer rotator. I will try a impact hammer next . lefty loosy or righty loosey
Thanks
M Borys 2021 783 3525

Standard right hand thread - turn counter-clockwise to remove.

TOH