Crimping vs. Soldering (Continued)

[Dunk]

(Continued from http://ytforums.ytmag.com/viewtopic.php?t=571031&start=15)

Soldering has came a long way since WWII.

When we look at crimping connectors onto cable vs soldering them, I would have say that most crimped connections are better than most soldered connections. However, the best connections are soldered connections. The problem is there is only one type of solder connection that is truly a joint, most are as the word states, a connection. Most solders, such as the popular 60/40, are a slurried mixture of tin and lead. In making the joint the tin/lead mixture melts, but as it solidifies it does so one metal at a time. It goes into a slurry state and one metal is liquid and the other is very small solid particles, sort of like wet cement. Next, the other metal solidifies and creates a million little connections. This type of connection is not particularly good and not permanent. When the phone company used this type of solder on their main frames, every joint had to be reheated once a year to insure reliability. Even then, the "cold joint" was a common occurrence. Bad and noisy joints were the main cause of failure in early printed circuit boards and electronic equipment until some time in the mid sixties or early seventies. Then they learned that eutectic joints were perfectly reliable and I do mean perfectly. By the mid seventies or early eighties most electronic equipment was being soldered with eutectic solder (63/37). The reliability of printed circuit boards went up about 1000% and solid state audio gear began to sound almost tolerable. Today, all printed circuit boards use 63/37 eutectic solder. Eutectic solder is a special mixture. The melting point of a eutectic solder is lower than any of its component parts, so there is no slurry state in these solders. They solidify as one piece and make a true solder joint, not a connection. Now, provided that the parts being soldered are made of the metal incorporated in the solder (tin plate in the example of printed circuit boards and component leads, with 63/37 tin/lead eutectic solder in the solder baths), you will have a perfect joint.

These quality joints are easy to see. Most solders are very shiny when molten and get a haze on their surface as they solidify. Eutectic joints are shiny all the way to the metal being soldered, if the metal being soldered is of the same parent group as any of the components of the solder. Many of the connectors I use are plated silver with a rhodium flash. The only wires used in high end audio are copper and silver, so I developed a tin/lead/silver/copper eutectic or Quadeutectic solder. I have never had, or heard of, a single failure in one of these joints. This solder is now used in the vast majority of all high end cables and equipment. Properly done, Quadeutectic joints provide the best sound with the lowest noise and contact resistance; all with absolute reliability.

http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=insights&content_id=13&pagestring=Solder+vs.+Crimped

More on soldering
http://technologyinterface.nmsu.edu/spring97/electronics/solder/solder.html


Find eutectic solder
http://www.google.com/search?source...z=1T4ADFA_enUS348US348&q=eutectic+solder+

 

[Dunk]

I sure would like to see your computer with all crimped connections.

LOL!!!

 

[Ultradog MN]

NASA solders all their connections.
With gold solder. So soldering is probablu the best. I doubt even the most die hard 6 Volt enthusiasts will recommend the use of Gold on an N.
A good technicion can crimp a connection together - if he has the $89 crimper and not the $4 one - that will outlast the generator or alternator, ignition or lighting circuit that it's hooked to. He can cut and snip and add or subtract wires and make the tractor run practically forever. All with crimp type connectors. And he can do it in about a third of the time.
It aint NASA but it aint bad.

 

[Ken(Ark)]

(quoted from post at 18:08:11 12/22/09) NASA solders all their connections.
With gold solder. So soldering is probablu the best. I doubt even the most die hard 6 Volt enthusiasts will recommend the use of Gold on an N.
A good technicion can crimp a connection together - if he has the $89 crimper and not the $4 one - that will outlast the generator or alternator, ignition or lighting circuit that it's hooked to. He can cut and snip and add or subtract wires and make the tractor run practically forever. All with crimp type connectors. And he can do it in about a third of the time.
It aint NASA but it aint bad.

Y'all use expensive terminals on the end of your wires ???

A pocket knife strip on the insulation , a turn and a half around the terminal , and the nut snug will work for about ten years . They make 14/2 household wire in pretty colors these days .

When it starts getting corroded you give the nut a quarter turn and your go to go for another year .

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 21:08:11 12/22/09) NASA solders all their connections.
With gold solder. So soldering is probablu the best. I doubt even the most die hard 6 Volt enthusiasts will recommend the use of Gold on an N.
A good technicion can crimp a connection together - if he has the $89 crimper and not the $4 one - that will outlast the generator or alternator, ignition or lighting circuit that it's hooked to. He can cut and snip and add or subtract wires and make the tractor run practically forever. All with crimp type connectors. And he can do it in about a third of the time.
It aint NASA but it aint bad.

LOL!!

For the record UD, I am going to run my 6v, positive ground, one wire Chevy alternator, and my Kettering Ignition System, at least for the time being (and for the past 25+ years).

Kettering Ignition System
http://users.mrbean.net.au/~rover/ketterin.htm

And my cheap crimps, with $20 pliers, and if any part of it fails, I will fix, or replace it. (I know how to troubleshoot it)

It is when folks start nailing in stone, it has to be this way, this is the better, best, only, way, that I have to point out, that they are not that superior, in any shape, or form, in my thinking.

And that what they are saying as hard coded, may have changed since they were so sure of it.

I have seen professional electricians put out some [b:04e03359b7]crap [/b:04e03359b7]crimped connections on some important stuff.

And I had to fix it.

 

[Dunk]

With my $20, 32 years ago, now $50 sta-kon pliers.

http://www.drillspot.com/products/69743/Sta-Kon_WT110M_Crimping_Plier

I can use real sta-kon crimps, on 12 - 10 ga solid, well pump wire, and use real electrical "Scotch 33" tape, or even the later shrink tubing with waterproofing sealant.

And it last hundreds of feet under water for 30 years.

I know that to be a fact.

 

[GA Dave]

(quoted from post at 19:22:33 12/22/09) With my $20, 32 years ago, now $50 sta-kon pliers.

http://www.drillspot.com/products/69743/Sta-Kon_WT110M_Crimping_Plier

I can use real sta-kon crimps, on 12 - 10 ga solid, well pump wire, and use real electrical "Scotch 33" tape, or even the later shrink tubing with waterproofing sealant.

And it last hundreds of feet under water for 30 years.

I know that to be a fact.

alk about inflation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I always used the T&Bs. David........................

http://www.google.com/products/cata...s&cid=11580887358498470211&sa=title#p

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 22:42:17 12/22/09)

(quoted from post at 19:22:33 12/22/09) With my $20, 32 years ago, now $50 sta-kon pliers.

http://www.drillspot.com/products/69743/Sta-Kon_WT110M_Crimping_Plier

I can use real sta-kon crimps, on 12 - 10 ga solid, well pump wire, and use real electrical "Scotch 33" tape, or even the later shrink tubing with waterproofing sealant.

And it last hundreds of feet under water for 30 years.

I know that to be a fact.

alk about inflation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I always used the T&Bs. David........................

http://www.google.com/products/cata...s&cid=11580887358498470211&sa=title#p

Merry Christmas, Dave!!!!!!!!

 

[JMOR]

(quoted from post at 20:38:00 12/22/09) (Continued from http://ytforums.ytmag.com/viewtopic.php?t=571031&start=15)

Soldering has came a long way since WWII.

When we look at crimping connectors onto cable vs soldering them, I would have say that most crimped connections are better than most soldered connections. However, the best connections are soldered connections. The problem is there is only one type of solder connection that is truly a joint, most are as the word states, a connection. Most solders, such as the popular 60/40, are a slurried mixture of tin and lead. In making the joint the tin/lead mixture melts, but as it solidifies it does so one metal at a time. It goes into a slurry state and one metal is liquid and the other is very small solid particles, sort of like wet cement. Next, the other metal solidifies and creates a million little connections. This type of connection is not particularly good and not permanent. When the phone company used this type of solder on their main frames, every joint had to be reheated once a year to insure reliability. Even then, the "cold joint" was a common occurrence. Bad and noisy joints were the main cause of failure in early printed circuit boards and electronic equipment until some time in the mid sixties or early seventies. Then they learned that eutectic joints were perfectly reliable and I do mean perfectly. By the mid seventies or early eighties most electronic equipment was being soldered with eutectic solder (63/37). The reliability of printed circuit boards went up about 1000% and solid state audio gear began to sound almost tolerable. Today, all printed circuit boards use 63/37 eutectic solder. Eutectic solder is a special mixture. The melting point of a eutectic solder is lower than any of its component parts, so there is no slurry state in these solders. They solidify as one piece and make a true solder joint, not a connection. Now, provided that the parts being soldered are made of the metal incorporated in the solder (tin plate in the example of printed circuit boards and component leads, with 63/37 tin/lead eutectic solder in the solder baths), you will have a perfect joint.

These quality joints are easy to see. Most solders are very shiny when molten and get a haze on their surface as they solidify. Eutectic joints are shiny all the way to the metal being soldered, if the metal being soldered is of the same parent group as any of the components of the solder. Many of the connectors I use are plated silver with a rhodium flash. The only wires used in high end audio are copper and silver, so I developed a tin/lead/silver/copper eutectic or Quadeutectic solder. I have never had, or heard of, a single failure in one of these joints. This solder is now used in the vast majority of all high end cables and equipment. Properly done, Quadeutectic joints provide the best sound with the lowest noise and contact resistance; all with absolute reliability.

http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=insights&content_id=13&pagestring=Solder+vs.+Crimped

More on soldering
http://technologyinterface.nmsu.edu/spring97/electronics/solder/solder.html


Find eutectic solder
http://www.google.com/search?source...z=1T4ADFA_enUS348US348&q=eutectic+solder+

RoHS (Reduction of Hazardous Substances) is really throwing the monkey wrench in the electronic circuit board soldering. It mandates 99.x% lead free soldering, now mostly tin, silver, copper solder alloy. Started in Europe & spread world wide since mfgrs want same product to sell everywhere. Military has had real problems with this new soldering & has exemptions, but that isn't a total solution because manufacturers don't like & won't in some cases make components compatible with old 63/37 solder. But back to the start of this discussion.....it had to do with soldering stranded wire to lugs, not circuit boards. The main problem is the turning of flexible stranded wire into solid wire near the joint with the solder wicking up the stranded wire and it is at this point that the now-sold wire breaks during vibration. On your tractor it is not very important, but in space or even 10, 000 feet or 1,000 feet up, it may result in death.

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 22:49:35 12/22/09)

(quoted from post at 20:38:00 12/22/09) (Continued from http://ytforums.ytmag.com/viewtopic.php?t=571031&start=15)

Soldering has came a long way since WWII.

When we look at crimping connectors onto cable vs soldering them, I would have say that most crimped connections are better than most soldered connections. However, the best connections are soldered connections. The problem is there is only one type of solder connection that is truly a joint, most are as the word states, a connection. Most solders, such as the popular 60/40, are a slurried mixture of tin and lead. In making the joint the tin/lead mixture melts, but as it solidifies it does so one metal at a time. It goes into a slurry state and one metal is liquid and the other is very small solid particles, sort of like wet cement. Next, the other metal solidifies and creates a million little connections. This type of connection is not particularly good and not permanent. When the phone company used this type of solder on their main frames, every joint had to be reheated once a year to insure reliability. Even then, the "cold joint" was a common occurrence. Bad and noisy joints were the main cause of failure in early printed circuit boards and electronic equipment until some time in the mid sixties or early seventies. Then they learned that eutectic joints were perfectly reliable and I do mean perfectly. By the mid seventies or early eighties most electronic equipment was being soldered with eutectic solder (63/37). The reliability of printed circuit boards went up about 1000% and solid state audio gear began to sound almost tolerable. Today, all printed circuit boards use 63/37 eutectic solder. Eutectic solder is a special mixture. The melting point of a eutectic solder is lower than any of its component parts, so there is no slurry state in these solders. They solidify as one piece and make a true solder joint, not a connection. Now, provided that the parts being soldered are made of the metal incorporated in the solder (tin plate in the example of printed circuit boards and component leads, with 63/37 tin/lead eutectic solder in the solder baths), you will have a perfect joint.

These quality joints are easy to see. Most solders are very shiny when molten and get a haze on their surface as they solidify. Eutectic joints are shiny all the way to the metal being soldered, if the metal being soldered is of the same parent group as any of the components of the solder. Many of the connectors I use are plated silver with a rhodium flash. The only wires used in high end audio are copper and silver, so I developed a tin/lead/silver/copper eutectic or Quadeutectic solder. I have never had, or heard of, a single failure in one of these joints. This solder is now used in the vast majority of all high end cables and equipment. Properly done, Quadeutectic joints provide the best sound with the lowest noise and contact resistance; all with absolute reliability.

http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=insights&content_id=13&pagestring=Solder+vs.+Crimped

More on soldering
http://technologyinterface.nmsu.edu/spring97/electronics/solder/solder.html


Find eutectic solder
http://www.google.com/search?source...z=1T4ADFA_enUS348US348&q=eutectic+solder+

RoHS (Reduction of Hazardous Substances) is really throwing the monkey wrench in the electronic circuit board soldering. It mandates 99.x% lead free soldering, now mostly tin, silver, copper solder alloy. Started in Europe & spread world wide since mfgrs want same product to sell everywhere. Military has had real problems with this new soldering & has exemptions, but that isn't a total solution because manufacturers don't like & won't in some cases make components compatible with old 63/37 solder. But back to the start of this discussion.....it had to do with soldering stranded wire to lugs, not circuit boards. The main problem is the turning of flexible stranded wire into solid wire near the joint with the solder wicking up the stranded wire and it is at this point that the now-sold wire breaks during vibration. On your tractor it is not very important, but in space or even 10, 000 feet or 1,000 feet up, it may result in death.

Thanks, John!!!! (err, Jessie, err, Jesse, err Jim)

I am not [b:ab5d14d99f]ever[/b:ab5d14d99f] going to be 1000' off of the ground period.

Above my pay grade.

Merry Christmas!!!!!

 

[Hobo,NC]

(quoted from post at 02:29:38 12/23/09)

(quoted from post at 18:08:11 12/22/09) NASA solders all their connections.
With gold solder. So soldering is probablu the best. I doubt even the most die hard 6 Volt enthusiasts will recommend the use of Gold on an N.
A good technicion can crimp a connection together - if he has the $89 crimper and not the $4 one - that will outlast the generator or alternator, ignition or lighting circuit that it's hooked to. He can cut and snip and add or subtract wires and make the tractor run practically forever. All with crimp type connectors. And he can do it in about a third of the time.
It aint NASA but it aint bad.

Y'all use expensive terminals on the end of your wires ???

A pocket knife strip on the insulation , a turn and a half around the terminal , and the nut snug will work for about ten years . They make 14/2 household wire in pretty colors these days .

When it starts getting corroded you give the nut a quarter turn and your go to go for another year .

Ken you are rite,,, your way can not be beat,,, I hope dunk did not miss his chritsmas dinner cuzz of trying to prove me wrong...

when you can tie on direct and take a connection out of the equation you eliminate a problem of the added on connector/conection...

If I have my choice when connecting 2 wires a wire nut can not B beat (installed correctly of course)

folks should learn to properly crimp then if it makes them fell good get the hot iron out ,, their time their dollar...

But for someone to put down a crimp connector just to make'em look smart tells me (keep that to my self)

solder and circuit boards DO have thier own speical problems,,, they do break and break sit'n here on my desk...

WARNING :shock: all I know I read on the Internet,,, do it enuff and you can become a guru also,,, not responsible for damages,,, I read it and just pass it along,,, proceed with caution

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 23:27:39 12/22/09)

(quoted from post at 02:29:38 12/23/09)

(quoted from post at 18:08:11 12/22/09) NASA solders all their connections.
With gold solder. So soldering is probablu the best. I doubt even the most die hard 6 Volt enthusiasts will recommend the use of Gold on an N.
A good technicion can crimp a connection together - if he has the $89 crimper and not the $4 one - that will outlast the generator or alternator, ignition or lighting circuit that it's hooked to. He can cut and snip and add or subtract wires and make the tractor run practically forever. All with crimp type connectors. And he can do it in about a third of the time.
It aint NASA but it aint bad.

Y'all use expensive terminals on the end of your wires ???

A pocket knife strip on the insulation , a turn and a half around the terminal , and the nut snug will work for about ten years . They make 14/2 household wire in pretty colors these days .

When it starts getting corroded you give the nut a quarter turn and your go to go for another year .

Ken you are rite,,, your way can not be beat,,, I hope dunk did not miss his chritsmas dinner cuzz of trying to prove me wrong...

when you can tie on direct and take a connection out of the equation you eliminate a problem of the added on connector/conection...

If I have my choice when connecting 2 wires a wire nut can not B beat (installed correctly of course)

folks should learn to properly crimp then if it makes them fell good get the hot iron out ,, their time their dollar...

But for someone to put down a crimp connector just to make'em look smart tells me (keep that to my self)

solder and circuit boards DO have thier own speical problems,,, they do break and break sit'n here on my desk...

WARNING :shock: all I know I read on the Internet,,, do it enuff and you can become a guru also,,, not responsible for damages,,, I read it and just pass it along,,, proceed with caution

Salami, Salami, Baloney!!


One size does not fit all.

Do you know that wire nuts have a spring inside them that is prone to rust?

I was a professional electrician for 15 years of my past.

You are the one that plays the "know it all".

Either your way or [b:9a03c57dc2]no way[/b:9a03c57dc2].

Isn't that the REAL reason that you have so much trouble with the boys over at the tractor club?

 

[R Geiger (or)]

I worked for 35 years as an A&P mech. on helicopters. It does not make any difference what I think is better, solder or crimp. I did what the manufactor said was right. No questions asked. Mostly crimped and in some circuits soldiered. No short cuts, just do it right!!!! According to the manuals!!! Tractors? who cares, do it any way you want!!!

 

[GA Dave]

And Merry Christmas to you and yours Dunk. To all YTers also. Back on the subject, I soldered the wires on the Vari Eze I built back in 77. Why? because Burt Rutan said to. 400 hours in ten years (busy working) and no problems. Lost my medical or I'd still be flying it. David................

 

[Hobo,NC]

Gotta remember all I know I read on the internet,,, repeted it enuff and it made me a guru.... Never had to put my hands on a dirty tractor...

Crimp'n is the factory recommended repair procedure I Read it anyways are maybe I did not,,, are maybe it was a riggernig recommendation from a guru do'n a case study,,, are maybe it was a guru who riggernig his tractor XX years ago and it was good enuff for him it should be good enuff for everyone else,,, It is interesting how guru's rig one thing and will fight ya over do'n a rig'n on another repair,,, always they do want ya to know their years of experience,,, I made all my mistakes my first year wranch'n,,, repeated the same mistakes 35 years in a row,,, Their ya go I have 1 year experience repeated 35 times ,,, were do I turn in my guru badge and one bullet that I am only allowed to tote in my shirt pocket


WARNING :shock: all I know I read on the Internet,,, do it enuff and you can become a guru also,,, not responsible for damages,,, I read it and just pass it along,,, proceed with caution

 

[pikewi]

David, you just proved solderin' is no good. Looks to me like the heat from the solderin' warped your wings and made em be bassackwards.
LOL
Merry Crimmus!

 

[gahorN]

FAA Advisory Circular 43 specifies crimped rather than soldered connections to avoid vibration breakage. The solder (makes absolutely no difference the mixture) will harden the conductor at the end-point of the soldered joint and create a stress-riser which will lead to breakage.

NASA does not specify all joints to be soldered. Many of their connections are crimped, and EVERY pin-connector is crimped.

 

[Bob Harvey]

Yet another episode of the 'Bickersons' (Don Ameche et al) HEY !! it's Christmas time. Have a good one Y'all. b

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 13:33:35 12/23/09)
FAA Advisory Circular 43 specifies crimped rather than soldered connections to avoid vibration breakage. The solder (makes absolutely no difference the mixture) will harden the conductor at the end-point of the soldered joint and create a stress-riser which will lead to breakage.

NASA does not specify all joints to be soldered. Many of their connections are crimped, and EVERY pin-connector is crimped.

I just don't quite find that in that publication.

http://rgl.faa.gov/REGULATORY_AND_G...9baac81b86256b4500596c4e/$FILE/Chapter 11.pdf

[b:df6746b2fa]I do find what I said about the calibrated $300+ crimping tools, and only the manufacturer is allowed to calibrate them[/b:df6746b2fa]


11-178. CRIMP ON TERMINAL LUGS
AND SPLICES (pre-insulated crimp type).
The crimp on terminal lugs and splices must
be installed using a high quality ratchet-type,
crimping tool. We recommend the use of the
proper calibrated tool. Aircraft quality crimp
tools are manufactured to standards. Such
tools are provided with positioners for the wire
size and are adjusted for each wire size. It is
essential that the crimp depth be appropriate
for each wire size. If the crimp is too deep or
not deep enough, it may break or cut individual
strands, or it may not be tight enough to
retain the wire in the terminal or connector.
Crimps that are not tight enough are also susceptible
to high resistance due to corrosion
build-up between the crimped terminal and the
wire. MIL-C22520/2 or MIL-T-DTl2250G
specification covers in detail the general requirement
for crimp tools, inspection gages
and tool kits.
a. Hand, portable, and stationary
power tools are available for crimping terminal
lugs. These tools crimp the barrel to the
conductor, and simultaneously from the insulation
support to the wire insulation.
b. Crimp tools must be carefully inspected:
(1) Insure that the full cycle ratchet
mechanism is tamper-proof so that it cannot be
disengaged prior to or during the crimp cycle.
(2) If the tool does not function or faults
are found, reject the tool and send the tool to
be repaired.
[color=red:df6746b2fa](3) The tool calibration and adjustments
are make only by the manufacturer or an approved
calibration laboratory.[/color:df6746b2fa]
(4) Suitable gages of the Go/No Go
type are available and shall be used prior to


AC Number:
AC 43.13-1B
09/27/2001

http://rgl.faa.gov/REGULATORY_AND_G...99C827DB9BAAC81B86256B4500596C4E?OpenDocument

 

[Hobo,NC]

http://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/failures/index.htm

4 satellites that have completely failed due to solder joint failure and 4 that have a partial lose due to (guess whut)...


http://www.motor.com/article.asp?article_ID=1212



http://www.motor.com/article.asp?article_ID=1221

dunno I just read this chit,,, have to work with it,,, to dum to go on to another profession

WARNING :shock: all I know I read on the Internet,,, do it enuff and you can become a guru also,,, not responsible for damages,,, I read it and just pass it along,,, proceed with caution[/url]

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 23:31:00 12/23/09)
http://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/failures/index.htm

4 satellites that have completely failed due to solder joint failure and 4 that have a partial lose due to (guess whut)...


http://www.motor.com/article.asp?article_ID=1212



http://www.motor.com/article.asp?article_ID=1221

dunno I just read this chit,,, have to work with it,,, to dum to go on to another profession

WARNING :shock: all I know I read on the Internet,,, do it enuff and you can become a guru also,,, not responsible for damages,,, I read it and just pass it along,,, proceed with caution[/url]

It seems that you folks keep missing the [u:8c4b173238]point[/u:8c4b173238], [color=red:8c4b173238]you[/color:8c4b173238] [b:8c4b173238]cannot[/b:8c4b173238] by your means, dollars considered, create the specification crimps that you are professing to be better.

Yes, solder can fail, yes crimps can fail, especially when not done with the high dollar tools.

I don't even see how yall can respect yourselves, and show your faces, after arguing these points, this way.

I seem to be shining light on black brick walls.

 

[Dunk]

I currently have a failed solder joint in the EI module in my '87 Honda, Rancher, 4 wheeler.

Where the plug connects.

I have a wedge drove under the plug on the expensive thing, to prize it out enough to make connection, and I still have to mess with it regularly to get it to make connection.

If the dang thing wasn't poured with epoxy, or whatever, in that plastic box, I could easily fix it.

 

[Philip Doolittle]

RoHS -99% lead free solder Warning Label on many Products: Contains Lead, a substance known to the state of CALIFORNIA to cause birth defects. Yes it certainly has affected many brains there from the governer on down. Merry Christmas

 

[Dunk]

Oh, Yeah...

And solder joints are considered to be really good stuff, as long as you remember to put shrink tubing on the joint, to dampen the vibration.

Look it up!!!

It is on the Internet.

No need for me to post it, you wouldn't even see it.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Just repaired 2 crimped connections on my tractor that had failed.The most common failure I find are in battery charger clips,these connection heat while charging a battery.If the clips are not rusty the wire can be cut back to clean and soldered.Crimped connections close to a battery are always trouble because of acid creeping into a connection.The popular bolt on battery terminals are a constant source of trouble and the side mount battery terminals are worthless.