Custom connecting rods

[deerelure]

I had a set of custom rods made for a 265 waukesha that i am building. and the rods look great. But both of the grooves for the bearing lock are on the same bolt end of the rod and the groove is in both the cap and the main rod body creating two half moons in the rod when the cap is in place. I am just wondering if the custom rods where saposed to be made this way. and if so what is locking the bearing in place and keeping it from working back and forth until it shears the locks off and then spins.

 

[mEl]

(quoted from post at 03:08:59 06/30/11) I had a set of custom rods made for a 265 waukesha that i am building. and the rods look great. But both of the grooves for the bearing lock are on the same bolt end of the rod and the groove is in both the cap and the main rod body creating two half moons in the rod when the cap is in place. I am just wondering if the custom rods where saposed to be made this way. and if so what is locking the bearing in place and keeping it from working back and forth until it shears the locks off and then spins.

I would not accept them if they were mine. The thing that locks the shell is the abutment against the unmilled other half on a properly done rod. It wouls seem special shells would have to be made to use the rods as is right? mEl

 

[deerelure]

Mel I tried to call you last night. but couldnt get ahold of you. if you could let me know whenthe best time to try again would be Thanks Jason

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 05:18:35 06/30/11) Mel I tried to call you last night. but couldnt get ahold of you. if you could let me know whenthe best time to try again would be Thanks Jason

Tangs go on the same bolt but one is on the front side and the other would be to the back side of the halves.

 

[deerelure]

I knew they both went on the same bolt but i am lost and confused as to why there is two grooves in both the cap and the main rod body on one bolt

 

[jd b puller]

What did the creator of the rods say?

I think I'm seeing what you are saying, can you post a picture.

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 06:06:01 06/30/11) I knew they both went on the same bolt but i am lost and confused as to why there is two grooves in both the cap and the main rod body on one bolt

Copy and paste this link into your computer header the lower rod on the front of the catolog shows exactly how they should be .
http://www.oliverconnectingrods.com/downloads/OliverCatalog2011Web.pdf

 

[wi50]

Those "locking tabs" are not actually locking tabs, they are simply there for allignment purposes.

"crush" or an interference fit locks the berring to keep it from spinning.

Look at an old set of berrings sometime, you'll see that the tabs have no wear on them, but the back side of the berring is marked from the honeing on the rod and sometimes you'll see the berring numbers imprinted on the rod.

 

[deerelure]

Here is what they look like The guy who built them told me the Same thing Wi50 said in an earlier post

 

[Anonymous-0]

Correct name for locking tabs is anti rotation tabs so they do a little more than align the bearing.

 

[Schim]

Correct name for computer header is address bar. So it does a little more than a header. ;-)

 

[Anonymous-0]

Wi50 is right. We cut tabs as described above in our JD superstock billet rods. The reason we do it is because of bearing availability. JD is famous for having the same size bearing with opposite tab locations.

This is also why you see brass or bronze pins in aluminum rods. The aluminum rod grows so much with the rise in temp that this "crush" is lost.

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 12:50:48 06/30/11) Wi50 is right. We cut tabs as described above in our JD superstock billet rods. The reason we do it is because of bearing availability. JD is famous for having the same size bearing with opposite tab locations.

This is also why you see brass or bronze pins in aluminum rods. The aluminum rod grows so much with the rise in temp that this "crush" is lost.

ANTI ROTATION TABS obviously where engineered to stop rotation . Now I can see where a machinist either from mistake or not knowing location of the tabs would machine two then be slick tongued as to why he did but time is money so getting the anti rotation tabs machined in the correct area the first time to me is the logical thing but if the bearing manufacturer cant keep them in the same place as well then theres a problem . foreign junk most of the time bottom line.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Deere bearings were made here in the 70's so "foreign junk" doesn't apply. Who calls them Anti Rotation Tabs? Once again you skip over pertinent information. Why do your magic tabs not work in aluminum rods?

Crush bottom line. Wi 50 is correct.

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 13:50:17 06/30/11) Deere bearings were made here in the 70's so "foreign junk" doesn't apply. Who calls them Anti Rotation Tabs? Once again you skip over pertinent information. Why do your magic tabs not work in aluminum rods?

Crush bottom line. Wi 50 is correct.

hy do they put them in aluminum rods if the dont work? would be a better question since. Actually must manufacture rods . look at these they have them just like the one posted .
http://www.rrconnectingrods.com/aluminumrods.htm

 

[Anonymous-0]

Thanks for proving me and Wi50 correct. Quoting directly from the R and R website (the link you provided).

"What bearings do I run with an aluminum connecting rod?

Many race bearings are offered for numerous applications with dowel pin holes already drilled in them. TANGS WERE NOT INTENDED TO PREVENT BEARINGS FROM SPINNING. They are just used to locate the bearing side to side....."

I am sure you can read the rest.

Thanks for making this so easy for the rest of us.

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 17:22:25 06/30/11) Thanks for proving me and Wi50 correct. Quoting directly from the R and R website (the link you provided).

"What bearings do I run with an aluminum connecting rod?

Many race bearings are offered for numerous applications with dowel pin holes already drilled in them. TANGS WERE NOT INTENDED TO PREVENT BEARINGS FROM SPINNING. They are just used to locate the bearing side to side....."

I am sure you can read the rest.

Thanks for making this so easy for the rest of us.

OWEL PINS locate and keep rotation from happening as well . So why do rods with dowl pins get machined with anti rotation tabs? Rand R offers a service of installing dowel pins at a extra fee for rods not equipped with them . Why are rods made not equipped with them . So R and R will have a service to provide . I doubt it . I am certain as shure as r and r thinks they need them some other rod manufacturer thinks the anti rotation tabs do what they where engneered to do . If you had read the rest .

 

[Anonymous-0]

Wow Pankey. Just read it again...

Quoting AGAIN:

Discussing tangs "They are just used to locate the bearing side to side"

Again read carefully. One word at a time:
From R and R (link YOU provided)

"If your bearings are not offered drilled for your application, R and R can modify them (let me explain this more clearly) THE BEARING for you for a small fee."

Give up

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 17:50:15 06/30/11) Wow Pankey. Just read it again...

Quoting AGAIN:

Discussing tangs "They are just used to locate the bearing side to side"

Again read carefully. One word at a time:
From R and R (link YOU provided)

"If your bearings are not offered drilled for your application, R and R can modify them (let me explain this more clearly) THE BEARING for you for a small fee."

Give up

Build a set of rods without tangs for a customer . He spins a rod bearing guess who he comes to saying its their fault . Perception is everything . Logical thinking is to but some cant do that . dowel pins locates stop rotation ,tangs locate stop rotation. torqued rod bolt caps stop rotation . but some rods come with all three and some rods just come with bolts. One thing is certain if you believe tangs dont do anything but locate the bearing .It would be easy enough to prove it . Most farmers own a belt sander. So remove the tang from the bearing . I always liked a insurance policy myself.

 

[Anonymous-0]

So now you back pedal. Pretty funny.

Don't own a belt sander, only CNC machines here. We have run rods with slots lining up like the picture and the bearings never moved on a diesel super. I got news for you, if a bearing wants to spin, there is NOTHING that will stop it.

That little "anti rotational device" you call it will peel back like a banana.

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 21:04:40 06/30/11) So now you back pedal. Pretty funny.

Don't own a belt sander, only CNC machines here. We have run rods with slots lining up like the picture and the bearings never moved on a diesel super. I got news for you, if a bearing wants to spin, there is NOTHING that will stop it.

That little "anti rotational device" you call it will peel back like a banana.

if the crank grabs the bearing it will break at lead one tab. But you say the tabs aren't for rotation.just for alignmeent so why do you run them. A fellow should be able to align the bearing halves by hand to assemble.

 

[Eric Bloom]

i work at a MF dealer, some of our newer motors dont even have tabs on the bearings. they are strictly for alignment. if they were for anti rotation wouldn't it seem they would be on the left side of the cap and the right side of the rod. instead of both tabs being on the same side? its not likely you would need to keep the bearing from spinning more than one direction. the crush keeps them from spinning.

 

[wi50]

Actually,
it would have all been just fine if I had not posted that "crush" or whatever one wishes to call it is what holds a berring in place.

But being that I posted it, Pankey is going to argue the point untill he kicks his own @$$........ happens all the time.

Just ask him to measure a set of pistons sometime after he argues for a few days that there's no way that they can be X comp hite or hold X amount in the bowl. Don't post any pictures of your nice billet rods, or parts that your machines make. It appears that some here get jelous of "all things shiney"


I'll keep haveing rods re sized, proper sizeing sure keeps the berrings from spinning, though it it's going to spin, it's going to spin. I've spun my share of berrings over the years.

My neighbor runs a heavy diesel super in the region III diesel class. We went down to Ellsowrth Wi a couple weeks agoe and had some fun. Looking foreward to going to Norwalk. Another friend runs a light super on alcohol for a few region III events and a bunch of local stuff. I enjoy doing any work or testing I can on the rigs and getting to some events. If things keep going well for a while longer, I hope to put one togather also.

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 07:48:37 07/01/11) Actually,
it would have all been just fine if I had not posted that "crush" or whatever one wishes to call it is what holds a berring in place.

But being that I posted it, Pankey is going to argue the point untill he kicks his own @$$........ happens all the time.

Just ask him to measure a set of pistons sometime after he argues for a few days that there's no way that they can be X comp hite or hold X amount in the bowl. Don't post any pictures of your nice billet rods, or parts that your machines make. It appears that some here get jelous of "all things shiney"


I'll keep haveing rods re sized, proper sizeing sure keeps the berrings from spinning, though it it's going to spin, it's going to spin. I've spun my share of berrings over the years.

My neighbor runs a heavy diesel super in the region III diesel class. We went down to Ellsowrth Wi a couple weeks agoe and had some fun. Looking foreward to going to Norwalk. Another friend runs a light super on alcohol for a few region III events and a bunch of local stuff. I enjoy doing any work or testing I can on the rigs and getting to some events. If things keep going well for a while longer, I hope to put one togather also.

They still give some anti rotation . heck its the name of it . you three can be as hard headed as you want to be . niether one of you has stated that you remove the anti rotation tabs from the bearing yet . wither done by a belt sander or cnc machine. one admits of machining the tab recess on both sides to facilitate multiple bearings with different tang placement.

 

[Anonymous-0]

I wouldn't put those in my engine, you may be able to go back and add bronze dowls to insured bearing location? We actually run two bronze dowels in our aluminum rods (upper and lower)...so far, so good...

 

[rd609]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: William McKnight <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 12:32 PM
Subject: bearing tang/tang pocket location in blocks ans rods
To: [email protected]


Sorry this is from my home e-mail, left my computer at work for the weekend!
Bearing tangs and bearing pockets serve one and only one function, ease of locating the bearing fore and aft in a position to prevent the bearing from interfering with the crank radii. Because of that, the physicial location of tang and pocket is meaningless and long as the goal of proper bearing position is achieved. Many late model engines including the new Ford built diesel engine, have no tangs or pockets. They use jigs and fixtures to position the bearings during assembly. Hope this will satisfy your customer. You can always call me during business hours or use askmahleclevite.com for help. please feel free to post the above in your chat room.

Bill McKnight
Team Leader-Training
MAHLE Clevite Inc.

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 11:06:21 07/01/11) ---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: William McKnight <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 12:32 PM
Subject: bearing tang/tang pocket location in blocks ans rods
To: [email protected]


Sorry this is from my home e-mail, left my computer at work for the weekend!
Bearing tangs and bearing pockets serve one and only one function, ease of locating the bearing fore and aft in a position to prevent the bearing from interfering with the crank radii. Because of that, the physicial location of tang and pocket is meaningless and long as the goal of proper bearing position is achieved. Many late model engines including the new Ford built diesel engine, have no tangs or pockets. They use jigs and fixtures to position the bearings during assembly. Hope this will satisfy your customer. You can always call me during business hours or use askmahleclevite.com for help. please feel free to post the above in your chat room.

Bill McKnight
Team Leader-Training
MAHLE Clevite Inc.

Yes Clevite has been putting out that nonsense since 2007 . Most of todays rods that have bearings with no tangs are cracked cap design and have no possible way to machine a tang slot in them if you wanted to.

 

[wi50]

[/quote]


You told me I could be "as hard headed as I want to be". But I'll beleve what I've been taught, I'll put my trust in the good people at Ford and Clevelite, the Massey engines from their manufacturer and various other sources. They have good reputations and uphold them, it's a far cry from someone in "fantasy land"

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 12:22:34 07/01/11)

Yes Clevite has been putting out that nonsense since 2007 . Most of todays rods that have bearings with no tangs are cracked cap design and have no possible way to machine a tang slot in them if you wanted to.[/quote]You would because you wouldnt know one rod cap design from the other.

 

[deerelure]

First off i would like to thank everyone for there input on the Question i asked about the Locking lugs. I have done a bit of research and heard from the person who made the rods and i am comfortable putting them in my motor just the way they are with all of the information i have accumulated. I am also sorry to the rest of this forum for giving a few childish characters another topic to Try and prove who thinks they know more.

Mlpankey clevite is not the only company that Has proven that the lugs are not a locking lug but an alignment lug.

If any one would like to see the information i gathered on this subject feel free to send me an email and i will forward all of the information i have to you. Thank you all Jason.

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 13:09:38 07/01/11) First off i would like to thank everyone for there input on the Question i asked about the Locking lugs. I have done a bit of research and heard from the person who made the rods and i am comfortable putting them in my motor just the way they are with all of the information i have accumulated. I am also sorry to the rest of this forum for giving a few childish characters another topic to Try and prove who thinks they know more.

Mlpankey clevite is not the only company that Has proven that the lugs are not a locking lug but an alignment lug.

If any one would like to see the information i gathered on this subject feel free to send me an email and i will forward all of the information i have to you. Thank you all Jason.

ever said they were a lo king lug. I said they are anti rotation tabs. What they are named.I am.glad your happy with them. As for me my rods will have them. .but i feel i can locate the bearings front to back without them. High rpm rods get both

 

[7030466]

You will have to worry about your crankshaft before you have to worry about the rods. Can you post a picture of your crankshaft and let everyone comment on it.

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 16:50:45 07/01/11) You will have to worry about your crankshaft before you have to worry about the rods. Can you post a picture of your crankshaft and let everyone comment on it.

es I am planing on polishing one tomorrow before boxing it up and shipping it to Ohio . So I think I can take afew pictures of it before it goes in the box. I am also down loading pictures currently of a bearing halve with the tang filed off fitted into the bottom halve to show you can not push the bearing forward or aft without using the the rat tail of the file i used to remove the anti rotation tab to remove it from the lower rod cap halve

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 17:45:21 07/01/11)

(quoted from post at 16:50:45 07/01/11) You will have to worry about your crankshaft before you have to worry about the rods. Can you post a picture of your crankshaft and let everyone comment on it.

es I am planing on polishing one tomorrow before boxing it up and shipping it to Ohio . So I think I can take afew pictures of it before it goes in the box. I am also down loading pictures currently of a bearing halve with the tang filed off fitted into the bottom halve to show you can not push the bearing forward or aft without using the the rat tail of the file i used to remove the anti rotation tab to remove it from the lower rod cap halve

will heres the tool i used to remove the tang along with the cap

bearing tang filed off

bearing inserted tang first into non grooved side

thumb pushing hard trying to mis align bearing front to back since thats all the tang does but actually have to use the file on the edge to remove it just like you have to if the tang was left on it and in the grove.

kinda proves its hard to say its just to align now isnt it.

 

[wi50]

take and offset that berring shell in the cap and it'll press in just fine also...... though if it's offset, it could rub the crankshaft radius and that's what the tabs prevent.

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 21:56:17 07/01/11)
take and offset that berring shell in the cap and it'll press in just fine also...... though if it's offset, it could rub the crankshaft radius and that's what the tabs prevent.

nd all this time for me to properly think i had instlled a crankshaft properly i would check radius clearance and even chamfer the sides of bearings sides to run the cleaarance i wanted even on bearing with tabs.

 

[rd609]

what do you call a high rpm rod?

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 10:06:49 07/02/11) what do you call a high rpm rod?

ne subject to 8000 rpms or higher like in sprint and drag cars