Diesel fuels

[Anonymous-0]

Hi:

I am relatively new to diesel engines and have come across the term winter diesel. Upon reading, it seems the refiners are making a thinner diesel for cold climates. Is anybody familiar with the changes this involves? My second question is if I have some winter blend fuel left what problems are there using it during the summer especially as it applies to the older case tractor?

Thanks
PaMnd

 

[JGarner]

Winter diesel is formulated for colder weather. It has a lower viscosity (resistance to flow) than regular diesel. Summer diesel in temps below some point in the 0 and below range will jell up and cease to flow. When I was in Alaska working we called it arctic diesel.

As far as running it in the summer when my family lived in NW CO we didn't get much winter diesel in the bulk tank, just enough to winter for clearing snow, etc. and filled our bulk tank with regular diesel for the summer in May to dilute. I don't think it will have any bearing on performance in the summer.

Some of the other folks on here may have more detailed info on summer use of winter diesel, be watching.

Jim

 

[DKase]

It costs more, puts out less power, and runs through much faster. What we end up with in the barrel is the spring gets used for light spring work. It will not hurt an engine to run in the warmer weather, but preformance is dissapointing.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Thanks for the replies. So than the only problem will be consuming more fuel than normal. Wear an tear properties should be the same?

This year I did not use the amount of diesel I expected so I have more left over than usual and now I will not be using much until May.

Thanks for the info
PaMnd

 

[case1030man]

winter diesel has had the oils in it stripped down to nearly none in it at all..A lot of uneducated people will tell you there is no difference between road legal diesel or low sulfur (white looking) and farm or off road use only diesel (red/pink looking)..On the farm we have had trouble with fuel pumps wearing out due to the low sulfur fuel when we couldn't get the fuel truck to deliver a load of the red stuff..If you run road fuel then you better run a lubrication additive..I just run a quart of cheap automatic transmition fluid to a tank of fuel.
Winter fuel will not hurt for a very short time but over the long haul it will cause problems in older diesel engines but the newer engines are designed to use low sulfur fuel with no problems.
Hope this helps along with everyone's reply..I will probably get grilled by someone but that has been our experience with our equipment.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Hi:

case1030man: Your comments does cause me some confusion which I hope you will clarify.

The winter diesel I am referring to is for farm use only and is red/pink/purple looking. Are you saying that this farm winter diesel is low sulfur?

Thanks for your thoughts.
PaMnd

 

[case1030man]

No..Low sulfur fuels will not gel as bad as high sulfur fuels due to the oil being striped out..The oils in the fuel will wax up in the fuel filter during cold weather causing your engine to run out of fuel by plugging the fuel filter..That is where anti gel additives needs to be used..If you are getting your fuel from a respectful farm minded place then ask them if it is regular farm diesel with anti gel additives or low sulfur and it is regular then you are good to go..The red fuel means it is for off road use only and it is probably high sulfur..Ask a farmer in your area.
High sulfur will burn hotter than low sulfur and give you more power and better start ups and not to mention that it will lubricate the older fuel injection pumps..Send another note if this doesn't help..

 

[FarmerHR]

It is my understanding that winter grade diesel fuels are refined to have a shorter average chain length of the molecules. This lets the fuel flow at lower temperatures and avoids gelling. However; the energy content of the winter fuel is about 10% less than the summer grade. As a result as the good folks have poited out, it does not go as far.
The sulfur in the diesel fuel is what actually lubricates the moving parts in the fuel system like the injector pump. A few years back, tyoical diesel fuel contained as much as .25% sulfur. To lower emissions, the percentage of sulfur has been lowered several times over the last 10 yeatrs. These lower sulfur fuels not only emitt less sulfur oxide emissions but also allow emission control devices to work. The higher sulfur contents in the old fuels poisoned the catalysts in the control devices. Unfortunately. the lubrracating properties of these new low sulfur fuels is not as good as the old fuels like was mentioned earlier. The materials in the fuel systems have been changed to make up for the lower lubricity. These leaves the older systems subject to more wear unless a lubrracating agent is added to the fuel
To the best of my knowledge, the fuel intended for off road use is dyed red to indicate that the road taxes have not been paid. If you put just a little off road fuel into the diesel intended for road use, it will turn it all red. I believe that even the diesel fuel we buy for the farm is now the lower surfur type. Since our equipment was built in the high sulfur days, we have been adding a lubricity agent to all our diesel fuel. Some types of pumps are more tolerant of the wear situation than others eventhough they were intended for the high sulfur fuels.
I would appreciate hearing any thoughts that other folks may have on this subject.
THANK YOU.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Hi:

Ok, so I understand that as JGarner says "Winter diesel is formulated for colder weather. It has a lower viscosity (resistance to flow).." since diesel is really an oil.

I am not quite as sure about DKase's comment "It costs more, puts out less power, and runs through much faster..". It costs more because you use more because the diesel is lighter and therefor more fuel is needed to obtain the same power or because the fuel is thinner and pump pumps more fuel?

I know from past reading that sulfur was a key ingredient in fuel lubrication. So as case1030man and FarmerHR explain there is a difference between todays fuel and yesterdays when it comes to sulfur.

What I am not sure about is if the sulfur in farm diesel changes from winter to summer. Please note I am not referring to "..road legal diesel.." but to off road or what I call farm diesel. The farm diesel I purchase is from a reputable national retailer and I know the boys in blue would be happy to give me an autograph if I were to use it in my truck or car.

So in winter diesel is the sulfur lower than that of summer diesel? Next week when I can I will drop in to my supplier and ask if the agent can answer that question as well.

Thanks to all who are tying to help me understand

PaMnd

 

[FarmerHR]

It would be a good idea to talk with your supplier. Would you share with us what they have to say ?


As far as I know there is no difference in the amount of sulphur in summer or winter diesel. When the clean air act was ammended to lower the sulfur content, there was no distnction between summer and winter diesel fuels. Both have to meet the same requirements.

I am aware of some suppliers adding lubricity agents in their fuel for certain applications. That is why it would be a good idea to talk with the supplier.

With regards to your questions, I believe the answer to both questions is yes. Since the winter diesel has less energy, it takes more fuel to do a given amount of work. This also means that the injector pump has to deliver more fuel to the engine to generate the amount of work required.

Thank You. Keep us posted on what you find out so we all can learn.

 

[DJM75]

winter blend is just that a blend of No1 and No2 diesel. All diesel now is suppose to be low sulfur like your died fuel and road fuel is ulsd or ultra low sulfur diesel. The sulfur is the lubrication proper in diesel and thats why they often recommend bio diesel blend to help with lubricity in older equipment. clear as mud?

 

[Anonymous-0]

Hi:

Thanks to all who responded. I am starting to understand. The sulfur content of the winter fuel should be the same as the summer fuel but the viscosity will be lower by blending high grade (no 1) with low grade (no 2) fuels. Makes sense to me. Each fuel supplier will probable have some proprietary additives which will make their fuel better than anybody else but that will probably be a secret.

As always, the information provided on this board is invaluable.

After I talk with the fuel agent next week I will post what info I have. In the mean time I will use up what fuel I have and see if I can guess better for next year.

Thanks
PaMnd

 

[Anonymous-0]

Hi:

Ok I had a chance to talk with the fuel agent today and they confirmed what has already been said here. Both summer and winter diesel is very low sulfur as per clean air act. Of course the company has added several proprietary additives to compensate and improve the fuel. As mentioned here earlier the winter blend fuel is a combination blend to resist gelling to minus 50 degrees. Sounds cold but we do occasionally get close.

Thanks for all your responses.
PaMnd

 

[FarmerHR]

Thank You for letting us know what the fuel dealer had to say. It adds to our knowledge base.

Us folks with established equipment have to ask a few more questions when we buy fuel.

I always like to ask exactly what they are adding so that I can understand what I have. They have been very helpful to me.

Thanks