Dizzy Confusion

[fOXTOOTH]

I have an open thread earlier on here and I promise as soon as I find out info I will post it
But this is a different tractor -Mario's 8N (1949 I think) front dizzy with 6V pos ground
Im changing the points out for him and trying to follow the book but it doesnt make sense to me so asking for help.
The wording sez to adjust the points on the low part of the cam, but that is when they are closed....is this a typo?

 

[Mad Farmer]

I have an open thread earlier on here and I promise as soon as I find out info I will post it
But this is a different tractor -Mario's 8N (1949 I think) front dizzy with 6V pos ground
Im changing the points out for him and trying to follow the book but it doesnt make sense to me so asking for help.
The wording sez to adjust the points on the low part of the cam, but that is when they are closed....is this a typo?

Check that bushings are not worn and advance mech is free

Gap the points on top of the dist cam lobes.

Set timing using a straight edge on the advance shaft. see below

https://www.myfordtractors.com/distributor.shtml

"SET THE TIMING



This photo shows how to measure the 1/4" timing adjustment on the front distributor to set it at zero degrees TDC.

Place a straightedge on the wide side of the tang on the distributor shaft as shown in the photo. Rotate the distributor shaft in the normal direction until the straight edge is 1/4" away from the outside edge of the distributor mounting hole. The distributor points should just be starting to open. If not, turn the timing plate until the points are just beginning to open.

It is best to be turning the distributor shaft in the correct direction to the 1/4" measurement. This will remove any slop in the advance parts. The 1/4" setting will get your sparks firing at top dead center. That is correct timing for these engines.



This is the timing jig made by Dan Allen (The Old hokie). Adding arrows for distributor rotation may help prevent confusion when flipping the distributor from front to back."

 

[Jim L WA]

Sorry that I can't help. I've looked and looked through all my manuals, but I can't find anything referring to a dizzy.

 

[oldsarge]

Sorry that I can't help. I've looked and looked through all my manuals, but I can't find anything referring to a dizzy.

I'm wit ya JimL Wa

 

[Non-farmer]

distributor???

 

[Brown David]

distributor???

It's a common slang term for distributors in Australia.

And other places too I believe.

 

[zuhnc]

Keeps one going around in circles, doesn't it!

 

[fOXTOOTH]

I apologize for not being a full time mechanic & for the dizzy lol, it was just easier than typing distributor. Mad Farmer I did reply to you but must not have pressed send. Mario bought some points for it and they didnt line up, stationary post either too long or block too small, condenser wasnt right either. So anyway, we are switching to electronic ignition, which brings up new issues....
As stated, tractor is 6V, pos ground, front mount 4 nipple dist. Pertronix EI instructions are a tad vague, and I want to make sure to get the wiring correct. Pertronix sez to "attach the ignition switch wire DIRECTLY to the ignitor black wire" & "connect the coil positive wire to an engine ground."
The switch has two wires, one goes to resistor, one to terminal block (where it picks up battery juice from the solenoid connection.) Which one to use? AND if I run a wire from top of coil to ground, am I reversing polarity when I install EI? Do I leave the connection from coil to resistor?

 

[Jim L WA]

I sure can see your confusion.
Sounds to me like the instructions are for an angle mount spark hurler which uses a can coil with two primary posts.
As for the wire from the ignition switch, they would be referring to the wire from the switch that goes to the can coil. The front mount uses a ballast resister like your friend has.
Can you call Pentronix?

 

[fOXTOOTH]

Jim, I checked with supplier (not Pertronix) and the kit is correct to my top mount coil. Other info I've read does check with your- using the the wire that goes to the coil. Current system has ignition to resistor, then coil. If I disconnect ignition wire and wire DIRECTLY to EI, plus connect wire from top of coil to ground- I will in effect be eliminating the resistor. Kit calls for 1.5 ohm primary resistance

 

[JMOR]

What is Pertronix kit number?

 

[JMOR]

https://imgur.com/XTgpoMU

 

[jzimmer238]

Have you bought this kit yet?
Is the tractor 6V Positive ground?
If you have not bought it yet and the tractor is 6V positive, upgrade the tractor to a 12V negative and buy a 12V negative EI.

If you have bought it see if they will exchange it with a 12V negative.

If you want to make the 6V positive work,

Did you upgrade to an external coil or stick with the stock?

You will need to determine the number ohms that are required by the EI and calculate what your current ohms are. This is ohms from the ignition switch to the wire into the EI.






.

 

[fOXTOOTH]

JMOR, JZIM, Pertronix part #1247P6, which is the only option for 6V pos grnd, front mount. Set up for tractor is similar to JMOR diagram, except there is a voltage regulator, not a cutout relay. There is also a solenoid with lead to relay block middle, where the ignition switch, ammeter picks up battery.
This is Mario's tractor, I'm not converting to 12V. Coil is in original position. I did get finally ahold of Pertronix, but got a tech who said he wasnt familiar w 6V pos grnd systems,( IKR) however I think we did get it ironed out- I just need to figure out if I need to add a resistor.
I dont know enuff about electrics to know how they work. That being said it looked to me like the Pertronix kit install reverses the flow. Instead of the juice path going thru the ign switch, the resistor and top of coil, which it currently (pun) does, the kit has the juice path going thru the switch to the distributor (ignitor) out the top of coil to ground & according to JMOR diagram I may need a resistor after the coil b4 ground.
Here is what I intend to do, install according to instructions (jives w JMOR diagram) and ground the red wire from top of coil - by disconnecting it at the resistor. NEW QUESTION: In so doing & if I find I need a resistor b4 ground, couldnt I leave red wire alone & simply run a jumper to ground from the other end of resistor that is already there?
Where some of the confusion lies: The term 'primary resistance'
JMOR sez I can install resistor after coil b4 ground. JZim sez resistor after ignition switch b4 EI. My thoughts are with JZIM on this, primary meaning first. Your thoughts?

 

[JMOR]

JMOR, JZIM, Pertronix part #1247P6, which is the only option for 6V pos grnd, front mount. Set up for tractor is similar to JMOR diagram, except there is a voltage regulator, not a cutout relay. There is also a solenoid with lead to relay block middle, where the ignition switch, ammeter picks up battery.
This is Mario's tractor, I'm not converting to 12V. Coil is in original position. I did get finally ahold of Pertronix, but got a tech who said he wasnt familiar w 6V pos grnd systems,( IKR) however I think we did get it ironed out- I just need to figure out if I need to add a resistor.
I dont know enuff about electrics to know how they work. That being said it looked to me like the Pertronix kit install reverses the flow. Instead of the juice path going thru the ign switch, the resistor and top of coil, which it currently (pun) does, the kit has the juice path going thru the switch to the distributor (ignitor) out the top of coil to ground & according to JMOR diagram I may need a resistor after the coil b4 ground.
Here is what I intend to do, install according to instructions (jives w JMOR diagram) and ground the red wire from top of coil - by disconnecting it at the resistor. NEW QUESTION: In so doing & if I find I need a resistor b4 ground, couldnt I leave red wire alone & simply run a jumper to ground from the other end of resistor that is already there?
Where some of the confusion lies: The term 'primary resistance'
JMOR sez I can install resistor after coil b4 ground. JZim sez resistor after ignition switch b4 EI. My thoughts are with JZIM on this, primary meaning first. Your thoughts?

If you install resistor ‘after ign sw B4 EI, that will reduce voltage to EI module and is an absolute NO, NO!
Use ohm meter to meas from stud on top of coil to pigtail on bottom in order to get primary resistance value. If ~1 Ohm or less, then you can wire original resistor as you said, just as my diagram shows. If Ohms measures 2.5 or more, skip the resistor.

 

[fOXTOOTH]

Check that bushings are not worn and advance mech is free

Gap the points on top of the dist cam lobes.

Set timing using a straight edge on the advance shaft. see below

https://www.myfordtractors.com/distributor.shtml

"SET THE TIMING



This photo shows how to measure the 1/4" timing adjustment on the front distributor to set it at zero degrees TDC.

Place a straightedge on the wide side of the tang on the distributor shaft as shown in the photo. Rotate the distributor shaft in the normal direction until the straight edge is 1/4" away from the outside edge of the distributor mounting hole. The distributor points should just be starting to open. If not, turn the timing plate until the points are just beginning to open.

It is best to be turning the distributor shaft in the correct direction to the 1/4" measurement. This will remove any slop in the advance parts. The 1/4" setting will get your sparks firing at top dead center. That is correct timing for these engines.



This is the timing jig made by Dan Allen (The Old hokie). Adding arrows for distributor rotation may help prevent confusion when flipping the distributor from front to back."

I did replace the bushing. It went in alright, but the distributor shaft is a little tight. Do you know how much is acceptable?

 

[jzimmer238]

I converted my 6V positive ground to a Pertronix #1244AP6 6V positive ground with an external coil. The external coil I purchased had 1.5 Ohms of primary resistance. The system you purchased needs .7 Ohms of primary resistance. Measure the coil resistance as JMOR said. In your drawing you show the ballast resistor is bypassed. That is the black wire running to the distributor that you added to the schematic. If the coil has more than .7 Ohms resistance you have enough resistance. To confirm you are not adding more resistance from the key to the distributor check the ohms from the negative battery post to the black/white wire going to the EI module. You have to have the key turned on.

You need to change the timing when you run the Pertronix module. The little nut on the left side of the distributor is used to adjust the timing. Center the nut in the middle of the distributor cap spring clip. I missed this step on my install and ended up with hard starting as a result. Changed the timing and it runs great. Pertronics recommends that you use resistor type spark plug wires because the solid core wires cause interference with the EI module. I had a set of spiral core resistor wires laying around. They have about 500 ohms of resistance per foot. I also switched to NGK 3112 plugs and increased the gap to .030. With your stock coil I would leave the spark plugs gapped at .025. The NGK 3112 are equivalent to an Autolite 437 which is a hotter plug than the Champion H10.

 

[fOXTOOTH]

JZIM, the system I purchased needs 1.5 Ohms resistance. The coil showed 0 ohms. So my thought is as b4. Leave the coil top red wire in place and run a jumper from the other side of resistor to ground....

 

[jzimmer238]

The Pertronix instructions for your module says you need at least .7 ohms of primary resistance. Your coil will have some resistance unless it has a dead short. How are you testing the existing coils resistance?

Having too much resistance will not hurt the module but your spark will suffer. The pdf shows how to wire the coil and EI module. The terminal on the coil goes to ground. Since your system is a positive ground that would be to the frame or the positive terminal. The red wire in your diagram that you have crossed out would get connected to the Black/White wire of the EI module. Get rid of the black wire you added at the bottom of the drawing. You have it jumped to the hot of the ignition switch. That is bypassing the ballast resistor.

 

[fOXTOOTH]

JZIM, you are correct & thank you for pointing out .7 ohms. B4 I bought the kit the owner of the shop told me it needed 1.5ohms, and when I saw JMOR's drawing above it sort of confirmed it, then I just didntr catch it in the instructions. JMOR sent the PDF above ^ b4 he knew what kit I had, but if you disregard the black wire connection he drew and crossing out the red wire- that is basically the tractor set up. What he is saying there with the connection he drew is how I envisioned it as well. I will as you say be connecting the red wire to (the ignitor black/white) then to ground, but (as I have suggested by leaving the red wire intact) go thru the resistor in reverse & using a jumper wire to ground. The jumper would be connected where the ign switch was connected to the resistor. Remove the ign switch connection from resistor and use that wire to make the EI connection. The difference is making the kit work backwards from the normal tractor set up and adding a resistor to the ground wire (instead of b4 the coil it will now be after the coil) Seems plausible to me, as long as the resistor to ground is OK. Ive made all the connections the kit instructions say. As long as the resistor after the coil adds the ohms required, should be OK. Your thoughts?
I measured the coil resistance by the top post and the pigtail at bottom but must admit I'm not confident. I have two muti meters, one older with the needle, one newer w digital. The older one read zero when I put the contacts together so I used it. The digital one lowest setting is 200, turn it on it reads 1, touch contacts together it dances around but seems to settle on .5 to .7