does cylinder head grooving help

[2cylinderpuller]

does cylinder head grooving make horse power

 

[tomturkey]

An aritcle in the "Farm Show" publication this month claims it adds effiecency hp and pick-up/torque I can't find it right now to check out all it said. Looking forward to others weighing in on this topic gobble

 

[Anonymous-0]

I read the article, seems a little optimistic to me. If it was that easy the factory engineers would have been doing it years ago.

 

[Anonymous-0]

There's some interesting information at the link below.

Hot rodders have ALWAYS been ahead of factory engineers in producing horsepower. MOST high-performance modification that factory engineers have added to internal combustion engines have come long AFTER the hot-rod community had proven the value of the modifications.
Singh Grooves

 

[Anonymous-0]

There's some interesting information at the link below.

Hot rodders have ALWAYS been ahead of factory engineers in producing horsepower. MOST high-performance modification that factory engineers have added to internal combustion engines have come long AFTER the hot-rod community had proven the value of the modifications.
Singh Grooves

 

[Dodgeit]

(quoted from post at 11:03:15 12/26/11) There's some interesting information at the link below.

Hot rodders have ALWAYS been ahead of factory engineers in producing horsepower. MOST high-performance modification that factory engineers have added to internal combustion engines have come long AFTER the hot-rod community had proven the value of the modifications.
Singh Grooves

I put them on the heads of my HD Roadglide when I went to 103 C.I.

I would do it again, although I'm not sure there was a measurable gain of horsepower per say, I can say without a doubt that they helped make power in areas of high load. My compression is set to 10.2-1 with a .029 squish. I can run regular unleaded if I have to with no spark retard. While I was tuning the map cells I was constanately abel to remove fuel in areas where you would normally have to richin the mixture to combat detonation. tuning done using O2 sensors and a program to control ECU. Goal was stoich in all areas of cruise.

So I would think that in areas of spark knock conditions they will help. My power band is definately bigger because of it.

The purpose is to promote an aggressive burn so that ther are no areas of uncombusted burn

 

[Anonymous-0]

you will never see anything from it on a dyno .jmho

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 10:22:20 12/26/11)

(quoted from post at 11:03:15 12/26/11) There's some interesting information at the link below.

Hot rodders have ALWAYS been ahead of factory engineers in producing horsepower. MOST high-performance modification that factory engineers have added to internal combustion engines have come long AFTER the hot-rod community had proven the value of the modifications.
Singh Grooves

I put them on the heads of my HD Roadglide when I went to 103 C.I.

I would do it again, although I'm not sure there was a measurable gain of horsepower per say, I can say without a doubt that they helped make power in areas of high load. My compression is set to 10.2-1 with a .029 squish. I can run regular unleaded if I have to with no spark retard. While I was tuning the map cells I was constanately abel to remove fuel in areas where you would normally have to richin the mixture to combat detonation. tuning done using O2 sensors and a program to control ECU. Goal was stoich in all areas of cruise.

So I would think that in areas of spark knock conditions they will help. My power band is definately bigger because of it.

The purpose is to promote an aggressive burn so that ther are no areas of uncombusted burn

So help me understand you increased the cubic inches increased the static compression ratio did no testing with one or both of these changes then cut grooves to reduce compression ratio to where you can run low octane fuel and did do some testing . You also would like to think that none of the three steps done were detrimental to
the performance . like all of us we want to be rewarded in all of our efforts . If this sounds smart I am really not trying to be . I am just trying to point out untill we look at every individual step that got us to our successful completition one can not give one more or less credit than any of the other steps. however ther is no replacement for displacement. increase in compression ratio always increases the effeciency of a engine . Every time those two are done . Was any changes made to the camshaft as well.

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 11:12:03 12/26/11)

(quoted from post at 10:22:20 12/26/11)

(quoted from post at 11:03:15 12/26/11) There's some interesting information at the link below.

Hot rodders have ALWAYS been ahead of factory engineers in producing horsepower. MOST high-performance modification that factory engineers have added to internal combustion engines have come long AFTER the hot-rod community had proven the value of the modifications.
Singh Grooves

I put them on the heads of my HD Roadglide when I went to 103 C.I.

I would do it again, although I'm not sure there was a measurable gain of horsepower per say, I can say without a doubt that they helped make power in areas of high load. My compression is set to 10.2-1 with a .029 squish. I can run regular unleaded if I have to with no spark retard. While I was tuning the map cells I was constanately abel to remove fuel in areas where you would normally have to richin the mixture to combat detonation. tuning done using O2 sensors and a program to control ECU. Goal was stoich in all areas of cruise.

So I would think that in areas of spark knock conditions they will help. My power band is definately bigger because of it.

The purpose is to promote an aggressive burn so that ther are no areas of uncombusted burn

So help me understand you increased the cubic inches increased the static compression ratio did no testing with one or both of these changes then cut grooves to reduce compression ratio to where you can run low octane fuel and did do some testing . You also would like to think that none of the three steps done were detrimental to
the performance . like all of us we want to be rewarded in all of our efforts . If this sounds smart I am really not trying to be . I am just trying to point out untill we look at every individual step that got us to our successful completition one can not give one more or less credit than any of the other steps. however ther is no replacement for displacement. increase in compression ratio always increases the effeciency of a engine . Every time those two are done . Was any changes made to the camshaft as well.

I posted a few months ago about squish /quench on a chainsaw build I did . I hadn't built a two stroke since 1990 when I was building riding /raicng blowing up a kx 500 every 17 hours . I found then that cubic inches rule with the big bore kit getting bigger every blow up or scored piston. I also found that compression increased with every bore change wither the squish got tighter or stayed the same.Two months ago i did some log testing with the saw . a 52mm bore with 160 psi cut better than a 54 mm piston at 150 psi . a 54 mm piston with 195 psi compression three step colder sparkplug and .010 squish to acomplish the 195 psi with icreased duration in the transfers will sling saw dust from the bar nose or the saws discharge 14 feet. So is it a magical squish number heck no its a compression increase and duration all the way .

 

[Dodgeit]

(quoted from post at 12:25:54 12/26/11) you will never see anything from it on a dyno .jmho

From a gross HP or torque gain I agree, but based on the tuning of the same build using the exact same components, to include heads ported by the same person, you will see the same power over a broader RPM range, without having to pull timing or go sloppy rich to reduce detonation in high load areas.

 

[Dodgeit]

(quoted from post at 13:12:03 12/26/11)

(quoted from post at 10:22:20 12/26/11)

(quoted from post at 11:03:15 12/26/11) There's some interesting information at the link below.

Hot rodders have ALWAYS been ahead of factory engineers in producing horsepower. MOST high-performance modification that factory engineers have added to internal combustion engines have come long AFTER the hot-rod community had proven the value of the modifications.
Singh Grooves

I put them on the heads of my HD Roadglide when I went to 103 C.I.

I would do it again, although I'm not sure there was a measurable gain of horsepower per say, I can say without a doubt that they helped make power in areas of high load. My compression is set to 10.2-1 with a .029 squish. I can run regular unleaded if I have to with no spark retard. While I was tuning the map cells I was constanately abel to remove fuel in areas where you would normally have to richin the mixture to combat detonation. tuning done using O2 sensors and a program to control ECU. Goal was stoich in all areas of cruise.

So I would think that in areas of spark knock conditions they will help. My power band is definately bigger because of it.

The purpose is to promote an aggressive burn so that ther are no areas of uncombusted burn

So help me understand you increased the cubic inches increased the static compression ratio did no testing with one or both of these changes then cut grooves to reduce compression ratio to where you can run low octane fuel and did do some testing . You also would like to think that none of the three steps done were detrimental to
the performance . like all of us we want to be rewarded in all of our efforts . If this sounds smart I am really not trying to be . I am just trying to point out untill we look at every individual step that got us to our successful completition one can not give one more or less credit than any of the other steps. however ther is no replacement for displacement. increase in compression ratio always increases the effeciency of a engine . Every time those two are done . Was any changes made to the camshaft as well.

Just to clarify, the builds were the exact same componets set up to the same specs the compression was set so that both engines had 10.2-1, same heads ( heads milled to reduce chamber size to accomadate groove volume) same cam same pistons, same bike, same rider, same tuner 24 hrs between tunes , so that I could pull the heads put in the grooves and resize chamber volume to 84cc and reinstall. Temps the same time of day the same humidity the same. Every I dotted and T crossed. Everything was done so that the only real variable was the grooves.

Some like them some don't. There's no voodoo magic. The results were not mind blowing. Gains were better fuel milage, ability to use regular unleaded if premium was not avaliable, and more area under the curve, because it was broader not taller.

Make your own mind up. Guy asked, I answered with facts gained from testing that I did, not here say.

Are you being a smart alec? Not as I see it. As I see it the forums are here for helping people have fun in their hobby. I figure some here in the pulling section will get upset, if they think somebody gives away a real or perceived edge, or gives somebody an edge real or perceived.

I'm just trying to help.

 

[Anonymous-0]

(quoted from post at 20:57:48 12/26/11)

(quoted from post at 13:12:03 12/26/11)

(quoted from post at 10:22:20 12/26/11)

(quoted from post at 11:03:15 12/26/11) There's some interesting information at the link below.

Hot rodders have ALWAYS been ahead of factory engineers in producing horsepower. MOST high-performance modification that factory engineers have added to internal combustion engines have come long AFTER the hot-rod community had proven the value of the modifications.
Singh Grooves

I put them on the heads of my HD Roadglide when I went to 103 C.I.

I would do it again, although I'm not sure there was a measurable gain of horsepower per say, I can say without a doubt that they helped make power in areas of high load. My compression is set to 10.2-1 with a .029 squish. I can run regular unleaded if I have to with no spark retard. While I was tuning the map cells I was constanately abel to remove fuel in areas where you would normally have to richin the mixture to combat detonation. tuning done using O2 sensors and a program to control ECU. Goal was stoich in all areas of cruise.

So I would think that in areas of spark knock conditions they will help. My power band is definately bigger because of it.

The purpose is to promote an aggressive burn so that ther are no areas of uncombusted burn

So help me understand you increased the cubic inches increased the static compression ratio did no testing with one or both of these changes then cut grooves to reduce compression ratio to where you can run low octane fuel and did do some testing . You also would like to think that none of the three steps done were detrimental to
the performance . like all of us we want to be rewarded in all of our efforts . If this sounds smart I am really not trying to be . I am just trying to point out untill we look at every individual step that got us to our successful completition one can not give one more or less credit than any of the other steps. however ther is no replacement for displacement. increase in compression ratio always increases the effeciency of a engine . Every time those two are done . Was any changes made to the camshaft as well.

Just to clarify, the builds were the exact same componets set up to the same specs the compression was set so that both engines had 10.2-1, same heads ( heads milled to reduce chamber size to accomadate groove volume) same cam same pistons, same bike, same rider, same tuner 24 hrs between tunes , so that I could pull the heads put in the grooves and resize chamber volume to 84cc and reinstall. Temps the same time of day the same humidity the same. Every I dotted and T crossed. Everything was done so that the only real variable was the grooves.

Some like them some don't. There's no voodoo magic. The results were not mind blowing. Gains were better fuel milage, ability to use regular unleaded if premium was not avaliable, and more area under the curve, because it was broader not taller.

Make your own mind up. Guy asked, I answered with facts gained from testing that I did, not here say.

Are you being a smart alec? Not as I see it. As I see it the forums are here for helping people have fun in their hobby. I figure some here in the pulling section will get upset, if they think somebody gives away a real or perceived edge, or gives somebody an edge real or perceived.

I'm just trying to help.

ood job . everyone looks for a competitive advantage. who knows heads may come in by the groves for grooves.