Doing engine swap need help with timing.

[farmalldave]

Farmall 806 with c301 gas engine .
Long story short had to find a new engine the original one had a cracked block. The new engine is from a combine. I have the front plate put on. I made sure the crank gear and cam gear was in time with each other. I also made sure number 1 cylinder was a tdc number 1. The governor gear and the gear between the crank and governor did not have any markings on it for timing. I cleaned each gear and still no marks. I have the front plate on and I'm ready to install the front crank pulley. My question is does the raised timing mark on the pulley have to align with the stud with a tapered end on the front plate. And if so does the engine have to be at tdc. The engine is gas not diesel. The tractor is a Farmall 806 with the c301 engine.

 

[wore out]

Farmall 806 with c301 gas engine .
Long story short had to find a new engine the original one had a cracked block. The new engine is from a combine. I have the front plate put on. I made sure the crank gear and cam gear was in time with each other. I also made sure number 1 cylinder was a tdc number 1. The governor gear and the gear between the crank and governor did not have any markings on it for timing. I cleaned each gear and still no marks. I have the front plate on and I'm ready to install the front crank pulley. My question is does the raised timing mark on the pulley have to align with the stud with a tapered end on the front plate. And if so does the engine have to be at tdc. The engine is gas not diesel. The tractor is a Farmall 806 with the c301 engine.

I'm not sure exactly what you are asking? As long as the crankshaft and camshaft timing marks align all should be well.

There's no need for the idler gear or governor gear to be "timed".

 

[farmalldave]

I'm not sure exactly what you are asking? As long as the crankshaft and camshaft timing marks align all should be well.

There's no need for the idler gear or governor gear to be "timed".

The front fan pulley that slides on the crank does it need to be aligned with anything.

 

[rustred]

I don’t know what ur asking either . The front pulley would have a keyway so just smack it on. It’s the timing gears that need to be timed with the marks correctly. The front pulley can only go on one way.

 

[farmalldave]

I don’t know what ur asking either . The front pulley would have a keyway so just smack it on. It’s the timing gears that need to be timed with the marks correctly. The front pulley can only go on one way.

Ok so I'll just put the front pulley on easy enough I just saw the raised dot on top of the pulley I took a picture of and pointed to. I didn't know if I had to align that raised dot on the pulley with anything.

 

[farmalldave]

Ok so I'll just put the front pulley on easy enough I just saw the raised dot on top of the pulley I took a picture of and pointed to. I didn't know if I had to align that raised dot on the pulley with anything.

Wanting to make sure I don't miss anything.

 

[rustred]

Ok so I'll just put the front pulley on easy enough I just saw the raised dot on top of the pulley I took a picture of and pointed to. I didn't know if I had to align that raised dot on the pulley with anything.

Well ya when u go to time the engine u need to have them aligned. Till
Then it makes no difference. Plus u need to know what the actual timing is for that engine. Then you align the pointer to the before TDC number on the pulley. As I say I don’t know what the timing is for it. It might be TDC then use that dot on the pulley as it appears that’s what it represents.

 

[used red MN]

Maybe what I added about the distributor in your other thread in Restoration Processes in reply 15 threw you off. (see link below) In your picture of the piston at TDC where you show the open gears I don’t think the cam nut is even tight there. Are you sure the engine didn’t move when you gave that the final tightening? As others said here and I said in the other thread the pulley is not timed. The pulley is “aligned” by its key and will be used to time the distributor later. I hate to throw an additional wrench in this but if that pulley is a rubber mounted harmonic balancer there is a possibility the outer ring with the marks has slipped. If this is so I can tell you how to check that for certain if need be. Put the pulley on and if you still have the head off turn the engine and see if the TDC mark seems to line up when the piston is at TDC.
Other Thread in Restoration forum

 

[caterpillar guy]

You might have TDC but are you on the compression stroke with the valves closed or not will make you 180 out if they are not. Iknow it seems it would not matter at this time. Just a lot easier to have the lifters down at this point than the guessing and trying to see in the plug hole for the piston. With the pushrods for number one they will set even on top if they are closed and compression is the only time they will set that way.

 

[farmalldave]

Maybe what I added about the distributor in your other thread in Restoration Processes in reply 15 threw you off. (see link below) In your picture of the piston at TDC where you show the open gears I don’t think the cam nut is even tight there. Are you sure the engine didn’t move when you gave that the final tightening? As others said here and I said in the other thread the pulley is not timed. The pulley is “aligned” by its key and will be used to time the distributor later. I hate to throw an additional wrench in this but if that pulley is a rubber mounted harmonic balancer there is a possibility the outer ring with the marks has slipped. If this is so I can tell you how to check that for certain if need be. Put the pulley on and if you still have the head off turn the engine and see if the TDC mark seems to line up when the piston is at TDC.
Other Thread in Restoration forum

I torqued the cam gear to spec and pushed over one side of the washer around the nut. I had to move the cam shaft so cam gear would line up with the crank gear is that alright.

 

[used red MN]

I torqued the cam gear to spec and pushed over one side of the washer around the nut. I had to move the cam shaft so cam gear would line up with the crank gear is that alright.

It sounds like you definitely have a little trouble understanding the concept of timing. The dots on the cam lined up per a diagram in a service manual? Or if there is only one set (one on each gear)then there is no question. And the key does all the alignment on the camshaft. Nothing else is timed until the distributor is installed. To clarify a bit about what cat guy said. If you set the engine at TDC compression for number one now with pushrods installed in the block you should be able to turn the engine either way off TDC and they won’t move. If they do you have to turn the engine one more revolution. Because it was at TDC for number 6.

 

[farmalldave]

It sounds like you definitely have a little trouble understanding the concept of timing. The dots on the cam lined up per a diagram in a service manual? Or if there is only one set (one on each gear)then there is no question. And the key does all the alignment on the camshaft. Nothing else is timed until the distributor is installed. To clarify a bit about what cat guy said. If you set the engine at TDC compression for number one now with pushrods installed in the block you should be able to turn the engine either way off TDC and they won’t move. If they do you have to turn the engine one more revolution. Because it was at TDC for number 6.

Ok sounds good.

 

[rustred]

i actually get tired of explaining how to set valves, as it appears lots dont understand the concept. all engines have 2 TDC'S . you need to have the adjusting cylinder on the compression stroke. to get it there you need to watch the running mate for that cylinder. if you have no idea what i am talking about then do this. write down the firing order 153624 the u write the last 3 numbers under the first three. 153 624 , now u have the running mates 1 and 6, 5 and 2. and 3 and 4 . sooo to set number one's valves you watch cylinder 6 so the valves are on the rock, meaning rocking the crank back and forth, both valves are doing exactly the same,... rocking. you want them valves in the centre of the rock, then you adjust number one's valves then you turn the engine following the firing order which will be number 5 cylinder, so you watch number 2's valves to be rocking. then set number 5 cylinder, and so on till done. totally fool proof when done this way , which is the industry standard the mechanic's use . the other way is the simplified method . so there is 2 methods mechanic's use. when i find my chart i will post that also. which will be simpler for you. no going wrong that way either.

 

[rustred]

Here u go , all self explanatory.

 

[wore out]

.

 

[farmalldave]

Here u go , all self explanatory.

Thank you for the help don't get tired of me yet I'm a newbie. I have lots more questions down the road I'm sure .