Dumb plumbing question

[Jeff in ND]

The farm house has a defunct water filter setup in the cellar. Its been out of service since town water was brought in and the well capped (circa 1999). My late dad left it all there (and the pump and some other cut off pipes). But, this filter unit (not sure if its a softener but I think so) is still connected to the incoming water line, except there are 3 valves to allow it to be bypassed (which it is).

I would like to rip this mess out. But, it seems that 1 of the lines going out is that bendable copper tubing and not straight copper pipe. The dimensions on this tubing are different from normal pipe it seems. Its 1/2" OD where the other hard line is 1/2" ID stuff with the normal sweated fittings. I have never worked with this tubing stuff before. Are there adapters to sweat it to the hard line or does it use compression or flare fittings that is what I am finding so far? A bigger project would be to get rid of the tubing as well but its a total mess in this cellar to access where it goes compared to where it comes from.

 

[leroy in ne]

For thinking purposes only. One way look for 1/2" flare x MIP (male iron pipe) adapter, sweat female adapter to 5/8 od copper, assemble and done. Should be several ways to accomplish same thing, maybe using compression adapters as long as 2 common connections can be joined.

 

[Stan Coryell]

The farm house has a defunct water filter setup in the cellar. Its been out of service since town water was brought in and the well capped (circa 1999). My late dad left it all there (and the pump and some other cut off pipes). But, this filter unit (not sure if its a softener but I think so) is still connected to the incoming water line, except there are 3 valves to allow it to be bypassed (which it is).

I would like to rip this mess out. But, it seems that 1 of the lines going out is that bendable copper tubing and not straight copper pipe. The dimensions on this tubing are different from normal pipe it seems. Its 1/2" OD where the other hard line is 1/2" ID stuff with the normal sweated fittings. I have never worked with this tubing stuff before. Are there adapters to sweat it to the hard line or does it use compression or flare fittings that is what I am finding so far? A bigger project would be to get rid of the tubing as well but its a total mess in this cellar to access where it goes compared to where it comes from.

Copper "pipe" is really tubing. Tubing is measured by the OD. For whatever reason Copper plumbing "pipe" is nominal size, not ID or OD. The OD is nominal size plus 1/8". 1/2" is 5/8" OD, 3/4 = 7/8, and so on. Copper plumbing pipe comes in three wall thicknesses, you guessed it! K, L, and M. K being the thickest. Residential is mostly M. Strange...

To answer your question you need a 5/8 to 1/2 sweat coupling (Reducer). Any A/C or refrigeration supply would stock it. 1/2" compression to 1/2" IPS (pipe thread) and 1/2" sweat to 1/2" female adapter. This may easier to find. You could probably jam the 1/2" inside the 5/8" (called swedging).

 

[Brown David]

The farm house has a defunct water filter setup in the cellar. Its been out of service since town water was brought in and the well capped (circa 1999). My late dad left it all there (and the pump and some other cut off pipes). But, this filter unit (not sure if its a softener but I think so) is still connected to the incoming water line, except there are 3 valves to allow it to be bypassed (which it is).

I would like to rip this mess out. But, it seems that 1 of the lines going out is that bendable copper tubing and not straight copper pipe. The dimensions on this tubing are different from normal pipe it seems. Its 1/2" OD where the other hard line is 1/2" ID stuff with the normal sweated fittings. I have never worked with this tubing stuff before. Are there adapters to sweat it to the hard line or does it use compression or flare fittings that is what I am finding so far? A bigger project would be to get rid of the tubing as well but its a total mess in this cellar to access where it goes compared to where it comes from.

There are no dumb questions.

The dumb part would be proceding to attempt something you don't know how to do without asking questions about it first.

That said, I'll leave any advice giving to those who know the answers because I don't.

 

[Butch(OH)]

The farm house has a defunct water filter setup in the cellar. Its been out of service since town water was brought in and the well capped (circa 1999). My late dad left it all there (and the pump and some other cut off pipes). But, this filter unit (not sure if its a softener but I think so) is still connected to the incoming water line, except there are 3 valves to allow it to be bypassed (which it is).

I would like to rip this mess out. But, it seems that 1 of the lines going out is that bendable copper tubing and not straight copper pipe. The dimensions on this tubing are different from normal pipe it seems. Its 1/2" OD where the other hard line is 1/2" ID stuff with the normal sweated fittings. I have never worked with this tubing stuff before. Are there adapters to sweat it to the hard line or does it use compression or flare fittings that is what I am finding so far? A bigger project would be to get rid of the tubing as well but its a total mess in this cellar to access where it goes compared to where it comes from.

Around here that pipe coming in from the street would be 3/4" "K" copper which is not the same as the copper you would use inside. Go to any local plumbing supply and tell them you need to adapt from "x" size K copper to whatever you are using inside. If you measure the OD they can get you the right fittings which (again, around here) are required to be flare type on the K copper end. You will also need to be able to flare it which is usually done with a simple drive in expander.

here

 

[Stan Coryell]

Around here that pipe coming in from the street would be 3/4" "K" copper which is not the same as the copper you would use inside. Go to any local plumbing supply and tell them you need to adapt from "x" size K copper to whatever you are using inside. If you measure the OD they can get you the right fittings which (again, around here) are required to be flare type on the K copper end. You will also need to be able to flare it which is usually done with a simple drive in expander.

here

It's the same here in New Jersey type K soft copper for the service. I would imagine it's all plastic now.

 

[Butch(OH)]

It's the same here in New Jersey type K soft copper for the service. I would imagine it's all plastic now.

Yep, various non-metals are the future for sure. I used to have a shop in town and due to other utilities and proximity to the street my water service and meter was more shallow that it should be. Every cold winter it would freeze up and either break the meter or split the K copper. After the meter was my responsibility but still had to be K copper to inside the building foundation. I kept a some at the shop, expensive stuff.

 

[Mule Meat]

Are you trying to run a line from where the waterline enters the house to where it makes it's first connection?
Has to be a Tee somewhere that goes from the inlet side to a water heater and/or branches off to the rest of the house. Find that Tee and run from it back to where the water enters the house.

Think what you are looking for is an adapter that connects 1/2" CTS (copper tube size) to 1/2" IPS (iron pipe size).

 

[Watthour]

There are no dumb questions.

The dumb part would be proceding to attempt something you don't know how to do without asking questions about it first.

That said, I'll leave any advice giving to those who know the answers because I don't.

My favorite variant on that is that the "dumb question" is the one you don't ask if you don't know.

 

[Jeff in ND]

Line comes into the cellar then through a water meter. A section of 3/4" copper hard line runs from there to the ceiling joists and makes its way over to where this old filter unit sets by a different wall. That unit was where it is from when the well pump was nearby and a line came in from the well nearby. From there are 2 lines, one 1/2" copper hard line and the other this 1/2" tubing. They actually then make there way back over the vicinity of the 3/4" hard line. It would make sense to cut off the 3/4" hard line shorter and attach the 2 other lines there with a T and a elbow. The tubing line feeds the kitchen sink and originally came off the non-filter/softener side. The other line branches to the water heater and then works its way over to the bathroom and washer.

 

[Blackhole49]

That's interesting. I installed 1/2", 3/4", and 1" type K (soft/bendable copper) many times and was always able to solder fittings on it. Some times we had to insert the flaring tool in it to make it perfectly round, but never had your problem.

 

[bc]

Around here the plumbers are running pvc for service lines. My K copper line has held up for 40 years but that is an exception. One of these days it will leak.

M copper went out years ago because of development of pin hole leaks. L grade replaced it for a while. Now every one uses pex and all repairs and replacement are all pex.

They now have copper fittings that are crimped on with a took. No sweat.

 

[Charles in Aus.]

Before using compression fittings it would help to anneal the copper tube first . It will make your job a little easier.

 

[Watthour]

I remember when codes first allowed CPVC as potable water lines back in the '70s. It only took about 10 years for authorities to catch on that it is gas permeable, and another 10 to completely ban it. I expect that just like PVC, CPVC, and PTFE, PE will suffer a similar fate once enough of the population's lab rats develop cancers and syndromes and conditions pointing at PE. I first leaned about the XLPE variant when learning how to prepare HV cable splices, and think it's a great thing for 45kV buried lines, but I never thought much of drinking from it.

 

[Blackhole49]

Around here the plumbers are running pvc for service lines. My K copper line has held up for 40 years but that is an exception. One of these days it will leak.

M copper went out years ago because of development of pin hole leaks. L grade replaced it for a while. Now every one uses pex and all repairs and replacement are all pex.

They now have copper fittings that are crimped on with a took. No sweat.

I installed water services for 45 years, 26 for an older City before I retired 13 years ago. The only time I saw pinholes in one was dew to electrolysis from improperly grounded electrical services using the water line as the ground. We were constantly replacing galvanized with copper due to corrosion failure. The only reason plumbers went to pex/pvc/plastic was because it is cheaper and easier to use. The City I worked for still doesn't allow plastic water services. https://www.google.com/search?q=whe...MAiAYBkAYIkgcDNC42oAexMw&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

 

[Dusty MI]

We moved into an old farm house in the mid 60's. It had galvanized plumbing, which I replaced with CPVC with in a couple of years.
We lived there until 2015, and the CPVC was still holding/working fine.

Dusty

 

[zuhnc]

Other than PEX, PVC and CPVC are all anyone uses, now a days. Rarely run into new copper lines, unless commercical or specified in the construction documents.

Gas permeable just means gas can go through the material; nothing to do with water carrying capabilities. PVC and CPVC haven't been banned, that I know of. Everyone sells it. zuhnc

 

[Butch(OH)]

Other than PEX, PVC and CPVC are all anyone uses, now a days. Rarely run into new copper lines, unless commercical or specified in the construction documents.

Gas permeable just means gas can go through the material; nothing to do with water carrying capabilities. PVC and CPVC haven't been banned, that I know of. Everyone sells it. zuhnc

I didn't think CPVC was banned. I replumbed my first house with it 40 years ago with no issues.

 

[Watthour]

In my county, CPVC is no longer permitted in new construction for potable water, and hasn't been for over 20 years. It is allowed for purple pipe (reuse) water and of course for drain/vent use, where it excels. It is also completely acceptable in commercial, non-water applications.

 

[da.bees]

The bendable line is 1/2" refrigeration tube which is seldom used for water. The hard line is commonly used 1/2 plumbing line. Plumbers go by id,refregeration guys go by od. If you can insert one into the other after a good cleaning braze the joint rather than soldering(sweating). It doesn't matter if joint is loose,braze will fill it just fine. If you are unable to slip one into other the simple way is to cover joint with 2-3 inches 3/4 soft tube, squeeze 1/2" or so closed at each end then braze. Refrigeration guys do it all the time and it holds far more pressure than yours will ever see. Sil-phos brazing rod doesn't require flux, a few other brazing rods and silver do need flux. Flat brazing filler melts at higher temperature than solder and lower temperature than brazing commonly used in auto and farm repair. If you find a flat stick but don't know if it needs flux you can test a spot on clean copper or just flux it then clean up residue afterwards.

The neat looking way if one doesn't slip inside other is to heat hard line cherry,cool in hot sand or wrap in welder blanket until cool. That will soften line so it will stretch when a round swedge is driven into it. Proceed to braze as above.