Davy Fireball
Member
[i will try to give you the long version-if you have a 8n you have 27.3 hp the compression is 6.5 to 1- aside from putting dynamite against it you cant get anymore power to it--think about it you could have a 500hp engine in it but with the gear ratio your not going any faster(you have reached warp speed)
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
The Fan eats up power. If you take it off that HP can make it the back tires.
Davy Fireball
Member
you guys i have it figured i bet he has a electric gas generator and has a window fan hanging on the left side away from the generator
Hobo,NC
Well-known Member
- Location
- Sanford, NC
I have no problem spin'n my tars as it is, I can pull any thang in second gear,,, traction is my problem,,, but then again lost of traction mite b in my favor :lol: ain't bork nuttin yet 8)
I have a MF TO35 here I rebuilt the trans on so hooked up the 2 bottom plow ,,, its got more Hp than a N,,, tars are not loaded,,, go so tired of it sit'n their and spin'n i went to my N,,, the N never missed a beat,,, loaded tars are just are to beat
I have a MF TO35 here I rebuilt the trans on so hooked up the 2 bottom plow ,,, its got more Hp than a N,,, tars are not loaded,,, go so tired of it sit'n their and spin'n i went to my N,,, the N never missed a beat,,, loaded tars are just are to beat
EricR: Fan uses electric power, it has electric to mechanical conversion loss.
Generator makes electricity, it has mechanical to electrical conversion loss.
There you have two more losses that you didn't have with belt driven fan.
You make more power with K&N filter. You make more power with electronic ignition. Show us the dyno certificates. A loud muffler with chrome exhaust tip will make you more of that kind of power, too. Be sure & post those numbers, too.
Did you ever think that the fan on your tractor is too aggresive??? Also if you hook it up to a thermostat it will only run when it is needed. Gotta push the edge gotta try new things. I have an engineering degree and one thing that it has taught me is that the numbers do not always jive. Quit smokin the old stuff one hit of the new stuff is all you need.
Hobo,NC
Well-known Member
- Location
- Sanford, NC
I use draft control,,, have ran into some hard arse dirt (sandclay) that was a problem,,, lectric fan would not have helped,,, next time I git cornered into that situation i will run a subsoiler thru first,,, a little help never hurts
I have a 2 bottom plow that bent all 2 hell here,,, its not mine belongs to a bud,,, so I go over to his house to break his garden up for him,,, he has the hardest ground know to man,,, his 4WD tractor showed no mersey on his plow :twisted:
the point of all of this is that I think and it is my personal opinion that the fan is pushing to much air so I could either put a less of an agressive fan on or put an electric fan on. Maybe it wont keep the engine cool and then I will go back to the old fan. I have got to try. What would this world be if no one ever decided to say "what would happen if we did this"
Hobo,NC
Well-known Member
- Location
- Sanford, NC
ell yel goferit
i dont know but it seems to me that since the newest 8N is now 58 years old and they have worked fine all this time id leave it stock, the fan is made agressive probably because a farm tractor runs at a slow mph so it doesnt have the air flow that a car on the hiway does thru the radiator and the fan must do more if you are out of power its time for a smaller impliment or a larger tractor
Does it make anything other than a SHORT TERM difference? ELECTRIC fan.. powered by the GENERATOR which is powered by the engine...
No free ride either way, except the electric only runs when called for... if there is a thermostat switch for it.
You can do what you want and it probably doesn't make any difference whether you get BOO'd or CHEERED...
duey
No free ride either way, except the electric only runs when called for... if there is a thermostat switch for it.
You can do what you want and it probably doesn't make any difference whether you get BOO'd or CHEERED...
duey
BillM (OH)
Well-known Member
If I had any more power to the back tires, it'd just make'em chew around more - they got enough HP to'em as it is.
Eric
I'd like a picture of the K&N filter. I for one like using modern improvements on my work tractors like 12 volt backlit gauges along with installing temperature and hour meters on everything. Electirc fan, go for it, you'll never know without trying but I can't think there is much to gain. May make as much gain by going to a better carb.
John
I'd like a picture of the K&N filter. I for one like using modern improvements on my work tractors like 12 volt backlit gauges along with installing temperature and hour meters on everything. Electirc fan, go for it, you'll never know without trying but I can't think there is much to gain. May make as much gain by going to a better carb.
John
Eric R,Let me tell you how to test your idea with out all the hassle .The next time your in the field plowin take 1/2" wrench with you,plow in 2nd gear leave the plow set and in the ground,stop shut it off and loosen the fan belt,or take it off.Start it and go back to plowin.Same gear,same depth,same land and see if it make a difference.PS.DON'T FORGET TO PUT THE BELT BACK ON!
Ultradog MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Twin Cities
If an electric fan didn't squeeze more hp out of a gallon of fuel and put more hp to the ground they wouldn't be putting them in all the Toyotas etc.
I see nothing wrong with trying to modernize these tractors or get more hp out of them. Think about those dual exhaust manifolds you can buy.
How about the live hydraulic kits they sell or the Zane thang.
It wasn't looks that got these tractors to be the icons they are. It was functionality, efficiancy, practicality, etc.
I hear ol Henry himself wasn't real sentimental.
Makes me think He'd have more of an interest in the improvements folks have made to an N rather than the originality of one.
I see nothing wrong with trying to modernize these tractors or get more hp out of them. Think about those dual exhaust manifolds you can buy.
How about the live hydraulic kits they sell or the Zane thang.
It wasn't looks that got these tractors to be the icons they are. It was functionality, efficiancy, practicality, etc.
I hear ol Henry himself wasn't real sentimental.
Makes me think He'd have more of an interest in the improvements folks have made to an N rather than the originality of one.
Transverse engine is why Toyotas use them. Dual exhaust on a N is for looks and the psychological boost in HP it provided for the mind of the owner.
Spend $, effort, etc. & do anything you want to your tractor, but don't try to fool the ROW.
Just do it & be happy, don't try to justify it or sell it to me.
Not necessarily directed to you Ultradog, rather anyone enamored with same.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Eric for a little extra hp try a straight pipe.And don't forget the 437's.
Ultradog MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Twin Cities
[i:654c4848f0]Come on Ultradog, the only thing that makes an electric fan better is how it can be cycled according to need.
The N tractors hardly ever go 45mph, much less 60. [/i:654c4848f0]
You are correct Dunk. That's the beauty of an electric fan - only comes on when it's needed.
I think about the days plowing snow when an electric would probably never come on. Less snow under my coil on a front mount too.
What does a typical window fan use a couple hundred watts? That converts to .27 hp. An N fan moves at least as much air as a window fan. And probably not as efficiently with a belt.
Is the fuel savings or extra hp worth the effort of installing the electric? Probably not to me.
I wouldn't put a Sherman head or dual exhaust on one for the same reason.
But neither would I scoff at a fellow who has a different idea about how to improve his tractor.
The N tractors hardly ever go 45mph, much less 60. [/i:654c4848f0]
You are correct Dunk. That's the beauty of an electric fan - only comes on when it's needed.
I think about the days plowing snow when an electric would probably never come on. Less snow under my coil on a front mount too.
What does a typical window fan use a couple hundred watts? That converts to .27 hp. An N fan moves at least as much air as a window fan. And probably not as efficiently with a belt.
Is the fuel savings or extra hp worth the effort of installing the electric? Probably not to me.
I wouldn't put a Sherman head or dual exhaust on one for the same reason.
But neither would I scoff at a fellow who has a different idea about how to improve his tractor.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Paper filters choke up with dust,learned this 50 years ago.Since a lot of work is done at 1000 to 1500 rpm you wont get any increase with toys put on the tractor.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
You may have a degree but your spelling and common sense is lacking.If you think expensive ignitions make more HP you have some screws loose.Plowing in 3rd gear will break up parts and plant the acorn nut in your forehead when the plow hooks on something solid.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
What's a Sherman head? I mean, how is it different from the original?
Heck, I think it"s an idea worth trying, especially if you have a free electric fan. One benefit would be faster warmup. If you have a 12 volt setup it would be easy to find an electric fan, and even if you had a manual switch, atleast in the wintertime, you wouldn"t have to hardly run it at all. More hp when not being used, and more control of temperature range is why newer vehicles have them, and an 8n would probably benefit some from that. Please let me know how it works when you do it.
garytomaszewski
Member
Eric,
Have you ever tried to jump start something and noticed that a large diesel or big V8 loses some speed when the cables are connected. Something has to charge a battery to run your fan. An electric fan may be great for tractor rides but when working you will need every bit of that "aggressive fan". Any time you wish to hook your Electric ignition/K&N filter/electric fan equiped N to a dyno and compare it to a correctly tuned stocker, you may wonder what you could have more wisely spend your money on.
Have you ever tried to jump start something and noticed that a large diesel or big V8 loses some speed when the cables are connected. Something has to charge a battery to run your fan. An electric fan may be great for tractor rides but when working you will need every bit of that "aggressive fan". Any time you wish to hook your Electric ignition/K&N filter/electric fan equiped N to a dyno and compare it to a correctly tuned stocker, you may wonder what you could have more wisely spend your money on.
BushogPapa
Well-known Member
If it were mine, I'd find a good Flat-Head '8 and install it..!!!
Twice the engine and the tractor needs more front-end weight anyway..!!
jack harmon
Member
I like this one,lets see here,i take that oil bath air cleaner thats supplying my barely operating carb off,spend 100$ on a k&n slap it on,make my carb work better yep hp gain ,i'm brilliant!!! now that fans turning ,must be sucking hp,spend another 100$ now im gaining more hp,Henry was a idiot,now what about that alternator,,,hmm it pulls at least 5hp when charging- dont need it niether cut the belt,gain more hp ,,wonder if ford could use a GOOOD engineer to tell them what their doing wrong,,uh oh im plowing with all that extra hp,smells hot must be something wrong with electric fan,dang chinese,,couldnt be i had to take shroud off and im only pulling air thru a small part of radiator,,,whats this,,starting to cut out,,,flooding down,,dang that oil soaked k&n is covered with dust ...stupid K&N engineers anyhow .. CRAP it just died !!!! whats this batteries DEAD since ive added so much battery requirements with no charging it cant work...STUPID PIECE OF CRAP N AINT WORTH DRAGGING TO SCAP IRON!!!!!!!!!!!You ain't by any chance a government enginneer are you?
jack harmon
Member
I hope you know we're just razzing you,,its your tractor do whatever you want with it!!! ive got to make fun one more time though,how are you cleaning your oil with a air cleaner?think if I filtered my old oil through a K&N i could use it again?or maybe i just need to air it out and reinstall it....go for it!!! let us know if it works,,,,
If you want more power , hook up a fan to your intake . A big block smog pump should do the trick .
Not much power is lost from an N so getting more air/fuel through the engine is what you need .
I would suspect that an electric fan , electric water pump and no genny would not free up enough horse power to notice since we are using a low rpm/horsepower motor to start with .
That all being said , if you need a bigger tractor just get a bigger tractor . The N"s still tear up drive train parts from what horsepower they do have . Increasing and or pushing one to the limit will result in costly repairs quickly .
Not much power is lost from an N so getting more air/fuel through the engine is what you need .
I would suspect that an electric fan , electric water pump and no genny would not free up enough horse power to notice since we are using a low rpm/horsepower motor to start with .
That all being said , if you need a bigger tractor just get a bigger tractor . The N"s still tear up drive train parts from what horsepower they do have . Increasing and or pushing one to the limit will result in costly repairs quickly .
Brian Jasper co. Ia
Well-known Member
Think about how a mechanical fan would work on a transverse engine, that's why they're there on them. On full size trucks with electric fans, the benefit is ram air on the highway so the fan doesn't have to run. I don't think I have the b@!!s to drive an N that fast!
Long story short, the belt driven fan on a tractor is the most efficient way. A generator is not 100% efficient, so there would be more load there than saved by an electric fan.
Long story short, the belt driven fan on a tractor is the most efficient way. A generator is not 100% efficient, so there would be more load there than saved by an electric fan.
TheOldHokie
Well-known Member
- Location
- Myersville, MD 21773
I was going to stay out of this rather frivolous debate but Jerry hit the nail on the head. Automotive electric fans don't run continuously like a belt driven one does (yeah I know about fan clutches). That's [b:44382bc40d]one[/b:44382bc40d] of the reasons they are widely used on modern cars - transverse engines or not - they help squeeze a teensy-tiny bit more efficiency out.
TOH
o, that brings us to, "why electric, where we must make a double energy conversion from mechanical to electric & then back to mechanical?" Large truck engines use clutched fans to totally disengage the fan (non-electrically).
Aaaha! The "always" answer............money!
It shouldn't have taken this long to reach 'money'.
And frivolous it is! Just goes to show that most tractor problems are solved.........nothing really serious to work! So the children, even us old ones, must play! :lol:
Maybe with spring weather, someone will tear up something interesting. :!:
I agree with your post. I"ve "tewaked" my "46 a bit in a few ways and the results have made a marked inprovement. I consider this the same as upgrading a house that was built years ago without electric and indoor pluming. I"m not interested in the least in origionality; i"m interested in getting the best use and performance out of a working tractor that has served me well these many years past. I can understand that some folks want every thing "origional" for a show peice/"museum on wheels", this is great. But for my purposes, I like the upgrades since mine is a working tractor.
SteveB(OH)
Member
I think the electric fan is a great idea, in fact let's take it to the next level.
Replace the engine with a large electric motor. Fab up some brackets to drive the generator and bingo !!
Now we have a tractor that doesn't even need gasoline. The generator charges the battery, which in turn runs the motor, which runs the generator and recharges the battery.
Perpetual motion has arrived !!
Replace the engine with a large electric motor. Fab up some brackets to drive the generator and bingo !!
Now we have a tractor that doesn't even need gasoline. The generator charges the battery, which in turn runs the motor, which runs the generator and recharges the battery.
Perpetual motion has arrived !!
Ultradog MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Twin Cities
It was an aluminum head. Supposed to give you a couple more horses due to an improved combustion chamber. They get big money for them. The last one I saw the seller was asking $1000 for. I don't know if he sold it.
Hobo,NC
Well-known Member
- Location
- Sanford, NC
I spec it did on a 9N/2N but of no help to a 8N,,, till I am proved wrong a 8N head is a cast iron knock off of a Sherman luminum head,,, the 8n B'n iron would B a better head
I have no doubt a lectric fan would rob less power than a conventional belt driven fan,,, whether it will b noticeable on a 25HP engine I dunno,,, on a 300 HP engine it is
Problem with the lectric fan is coming up with good controls to turn it off and on as it should,,, lots of cheap arse chit out their that does not work,,, One would need a sensor in the top radiator hose that would turn the fan on,,, none of that chit that uses a probe that pushes into the rad fin's
this is a pix of a quick riggernig on a jeep I did
Used a Hayden control kit and a fan off a for T-birds are Taurus,,, works quite well,,, had to use the top hose cuzz their was no place in the intake B-4 the thermostate to put the sensor
Ultradog MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Twin Cities
[i:654c4848f0]8N head is a cast iron knock off of a Sherman luminum head,,, the 8n B'n iron would B a better head[/i:654c4848f0]
Didn't know that. Did wonder how they gained the couple extra HP on an 8N.
Cept you can't polish cast iron like you can that aluminum...
Didn't know that. Did wonder how they gained the couple extra HP on an 8N.
Cept you can't polish cast iron like you can that aluminum...
Hobo,NC
Well-known Member
- Location
- Sanford, NC
Shinny don't make HP :lol:
Ultradog MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Twin Cities
Bling on a 9N.
OMG what will they think of next?
grin
OMG what will they think of next?
grin
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Thanks! I'm going to rebuild the engine in the old 2n. It already has dome pistons in it according to pops. He put them in when he rebuilt it back in '73. I think I'll have the head shaved a little. I can spend a $1000.00 on alot of other parts that I will need.
jack harmon
Member
Good lord,,hurts my eyes its so shiny.that old boy really must have some dinero,,,a real funnel that aint made out of crdboard and a whole five gallon bucket of oil too,!!!
OK, I am going to mount a generator on my front bumper to power the electric fan. No more HP loss on the tractor engine. Problem solved. Maybe I could rig up an electric oil and water pump for even more gains. I still got a problem with the K & N. How can you add a paper filter and have less resistance than an oil bath that has no resistance?
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
You need the 400 buck dual exhaust and dual carberators and a 3/4 race cam too.
Well, .. after all the hard-hits EricR took... I can't believe that no one on this board didn't jump in with the idea of simply running that electric fan with a solar panel! (Must'a been too buzy critisizing a guy's interest N his Ford trakter, heh?)
Eric, I don't think the HP gain is measureable in terms a N-Ford can understand. (And I think a hard-werk'N trakter probly needs to keep air moving all the time thru that radiator.... else she'll heat up.... which would obviate the advantage of an electric fan's ability to not run all the time.) :wink:
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