Electronic Ignition

[Anonymous-0]

I'm thinkin about goin to electronic ignition on my 49 8N. I've already converted to 12v and still having a little problems with it. My question is, will electronic ignition be easier and actually give me more HP?

My next question is about the parts. Part num 1247 is $89.60 Part num 1247xt is 149.50. What the heck is the difference except for 60 bucks? (and the xt)?

I'm probably whoosing out on the old points thingy, but I have weekends only to get anything done as I travel every other day so I need something a little more reliable, and no...I don't want to get a new JD or any other, I like my 8N.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

 

[gahorN]

Electronic ignition will do the same thing that mechanical points and plugs do...make a spark at the spark plug, hopefully at the correct moment. It will not increase horsepower.
I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings who have already converted ... but I would not waste my time and money on it. Original point-ignition system, if properly set up and maintained, will do everything an electronic system will do. In fact, in many ways it'll do it better. (It's more user-friendly, more repairable, less expensive.) When that electronic system doesn't work...how are you going to determine the exact problem? It won't be as simple or as inexpensive to repair when that E-system fails to work.
My 2 cents.

 

[Bob]

These original-style Pertronix Ignitor systems are NOT capable of "driving" a real hot coil, so performance should be expected to be similar to a new set of points that never wears out.

The original Pertronix units are more of a "workhorse" replacement for the breaker points than a super HOT electronci ignition system like we have become used to on modern vehicles.

(For certain other applications, Pertronix makes the "Ignitor II", which will "drive" a hotter coil, a different unit altogether.)

The part number you posted, ending in "XT" includes a "round-can" coil, and a special cover for the top of the distributor to eliminate the troublesome "square-can" coil. That's where the extra $$$ comes in. I have not yet used one of those Pertronix coil conversions, but it sure looks like a great plan, to get rid of the square-can coil. I would expect you'd probably get more performance gain from the change in coils than from the actual electronic ignition!

 

[BillM (OH)]

I learned all I need to know about electronic ignition when my Bronco went absolutely dead on the road in the middle of nowhere from a "bubble" in the electronic module in the distributor. Don't think I'll ever convert my tractors - heck, I've set the points by eyeball a few times just to get going and back to the barn. If you do go ahead with it, I would recommend the more expensive round can coil addition, so you can run it with the full 12 volts driving the coil.

 

[Mad Farmer]

Set up with quality parts (ford/NH) my 6V 40 9N starts in the dead of winter here in new england (-20oF) and I don't have to touch it again for a few years except change plugs.

If it ain't broke don't try to fix it.........

 

[Cliff (VA)]

Just to add another point of view. I converted my NAA to electronic ignition a few years ago. The most noticable difference was an immense improvement in idle.

I like my conversion. However, there are many, many pages of discussion on this subject (pro and con) in the archives. The front mount sqare can 6 volt systems do seem to have some problems. You might want to look.

Cliff (VA)

 

[Dell (WA)]

Doggy........I can change a lotta $10 points for a $150 electronic ignition on the kitchen table in 15-mins. Theres 'nuttin' wrong with most electronic ignition conversions ...except... the 1-wire squarecan frontmount coil makes it very difficult to bust into the coil primary windings and have the points trigger the coil. Most 6-volt electronic ignitions are VERY VOLTAGE SENSITIVE and the OEM squarecan coil is really a 3-volt coil. That is what the "infamous ballast resistor" does, converts 6-volts to 3-volts to run the OEM squarecan coil.

I know a little bit about electronic ignitions, I scratch-built my first electonic ignition in 1963 for my 1956 Dodge D-500 Hemi. I have the Delta Mk-10 CD ignition on my non-stock 165hp 7500rpms BMW 2002 semi-race engine. Electronic ignition is good for HI-RPM engines, NOT NEEDED for 2000rpm tractor engines........Dell, retired electronics Engr

 

[GB in MT.]

Zeus;
I have a 1944, 2N, completely stock 6v. I'm no purist when it comes to making everything stock, but it seems to me, all these changes made to these "N s", are a waste of time and money. Ford made these things the way they are, and are the simplest things to work on, I can think of.I have just been involved in helping a person fix his 12v conversion over a 2 month period. We finally got it running, and now he is going to go back to 6v stock. He says he never had that much trouble with his N before he converted to 12v.
Unless you run a GETTO-BLASTER radio, or you have 3000wat. dune-buggy headlights on your "N", why change it and spend all that money????
I've had various tractors in my 66yrs., and I can't think of any one of them, that was easier to work on, than the one I have now!!!!
Good Luck!

JMHO
Gary

 

[Ford 312]

I converted my side mount 8N to 12 volt and electronic ignition almost nine years ago. It has performed like a champ. No problems at all and I don't have to worry about poor quality points or defective condensor. The twelve volt battery will be nine years old this fall and still starts the tractor with ease.

 

[Timintexas]

Go with the electronic ignition. Best thing I ever did. Starts on the first try every time. No more babying and cursing.

 

[Jerry/MT]

I have a Pertronix in my TO-30 and I did it because my tractor is a working machine and I've set enough points in my lifetime so that I don't need (or want) anymore skill maintenace opportunities doing that job. We have a working ranch and my time is worth something, so being able to saddle up the tractor and turn the key and get a 1/4 turn start is worth the $90 I paid for the Pertronix a few of years ago.

There are more reliability problems (usually due to the poor quality of available parts) with a point/condensor system than with an electronic ignition, as evidenced by the automobile industry's total acceptance of these systems for at least the past 25 years.(Though reliability was not the sole reason for their wide spread acceptance.)
I don't disagree that it takes 9 point changes of $10 points to pay for a Pertronix, but that's not the only cost unless your time is worth nothing. And for many N owners who like to keep these old machines running as originally designed, that may be the case. But some of us work these old machines the way they were supposed to be worked and the technolgy for us to get more operating hours per maintenance hour is available at a reasonable price so why shouldn't we take advantage of it.

The argument that "if it fails you are dead in the water" is as bogus as sayoing we should go back to crystal radios because they are simpler than the modern solid state radios and you can fix them easier. You aren't anymore "dead in the water" than with a point system. You can always put points & condensor in a converted distributor until you can get a replacement electronic system. And what's the failure rate? Pretty small. Most problems occur because people don't follow the installation instructions properly.

In the end we all vote with our dollars. There's no right or wrong regarding this subject. You just make an intelligent choice that fits your circumstances.

 

[Anonymous-0]

If it,s not broke dont fix it????????????

 

[cargocult]

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

I, too agonized over the dreaded conversion! However, my tractor was EATING POINTS & Dying in embarassing PLACES & TIMES! I had just converted over to the dreaded 12v to allow it to charge the battery again (had been running it on the battery..it will continue to run a verrrry longtime!) Anyway, for the costs of Fixing Everything So It Would Work Ad Advertised, I was able to get the whole conversion kit & install it! Well, since I was already this far away from stock & having troubles with the stock ignition system, I decided to "Bite The Bullet" & get a electronic ignition! WOW!! Was just like the difference between night & day!! Starts INSTANTLY! I would HIGHLY RECCOMEMND THAT U do it, as well!! (Unless u are a diehard Originality Freak) My attitude is similar to the person who posted "my time is worth something" and I know things always fail when there is a crop in the field, so this is just one more way to forestall that eventuality! (But, I keep a set of points & condenser so I can change back! Like the BOY SCOUTS..BE PREPARED!!)

 

[Bruce (VA)]

The 1949 N has a front mounted distributor. It's good that you have already already converted it to 12v because an electronic ignition (EI) for the 6v frontmount is not a wise choice. The 6v coil is really designed to run off of 3v (that's why the ballast resistor is in the circuit) Because of the precise voltage requirements of the EI, even a slightly discharged battery will result in a 'no start' situation. While a 12v conversion & EI will give many years of effortless operation....it does not come w/o problems. The first is cost; compare the costs of annually changing the points/plugs/ condenser/ rotor ($20) vs the cost of the EI ($150) and you get a 7.5 year pay-back. The second problem is that an EI is quite unforgiving of polarity reversal & other common mistakes of tractor ownership; hook up the battery cables backward & you fry the $150 EI. Of course, an EI installation can be done by a skilled mechanic for less than $150....but, the same skilled mechanic could fix the problems that are being "solved" by EI installation in the first place. Simply put, these are low HP, low compression engines that start & run just fine off of 6v & points. Unless the owner needs to run 12v auxilary equipment, or has a worn out engine in need of a rebuild & wants to buy some time by having the faster spinning 12v to improve starting.....a 12v conversion is not really necessary. Likewise, an EI on an N is a lot of overkill.....IMHO!

I have three N's; all are 6v & all start easily, regardless of weather. The coldest start I've had was at 12*, but plenty of folks on this board have reported starting them on 6v at -30* in MT, MN & upstate NY.

I totally understand reliability. That's why I keep all three well tuned & keep the old but still good points/condenser/cap, etc in the tool box. If it doesn't start, or it just stops, it will be running soon enough. I can't say that about a single one of the three cars on the place. They stop, don't start or whatever.......it's $50 just to find the problem!

 

[Anonymous-0]

Thank you everyone! I was hoping for a lot of input and you have all been great. I was torn about this conversion and my only goal is truly for reliability and ease. I only have the weekends to get anything done around here and right now, the tractor won't start. It's a real pain to get to the distributor on these front mounts, unless I'm missing something, and I just want to know it will start whenever I need it. I've already gone through a starter, two starter solenoids? (cheap parts??) the new 12v coil that came with the conversion (shell actually cracked almost in half). I'm not a total idiot when it comes to mechanics, however, I know a lot more about the newer stuff. Maybe if I had more confidence in the older stuff and working with points and condensors, it wouldn't be so hard a decision.

Thanks again to all of you. As usual every input both pro and con is invaluable to me.

David Donovan
Heidelberg USA
Southwest Service Technician / Prepress

 

[Anonymous-0]

my 600 has been running on the same set of points for 15 years.I check the gap when the spring work starts.Cost my neighbor 300.00 when his electronic magic ignition failed on the road.

 

[Bruce (VA)]

"It's a real pain to get to the distributor on these front mounts,"

You do know that the distributor comes off of the tractor to replace the points, right?

 

[Anonymous-0]

Yup, remember that and also to disconnect the batry!