Enough

[Lanse]

pain for one day. Was walking over to the tractor and stepped in a puddle of mud on the concrete floor and came down hard. Came to the conclusion that i really hate my shop, LOL.

I Pulled the air cleaner, the belt pulley, and got to work sanding the remaining part of the tractor ( underside and back) and was wondering, how do i get the rust-dust off the tractor?? Compressed air is not an option.

Also, i got the head off the shelf and am wondering how do i tell if the valves are stuck?? Also, is it normal for them all to be closed?? The rocker arms were all level then i pulled the valve cover.

I sprayed both cans of carb cleaner into a coffey can and put the carb in there, tomorrow i'll see if it worked or not, LOL its worth a shot. I also finally got the sediment bowl apart and got all the grime out of it. Just so ya know. The engine still wont budge.

 

[keh]

Spraying the carb cleaner in a can and soaking the carb will work. I did that for a small engine carb. Did not want to buy a large can of the stuff for one job.

Normal for valves to be shut when OHV head is off the block. If all valves are closed I doubt if any are stuck, but if you are going to rebuild the engine I would take the head to a shop and have valves ground and whatever else it needs.

KEH

 

[kyhayman]

For general cleaning after sanding I always wash down with soap (tide laundry soap) and water. Then wipe it with a compatable solvent such as laquer thinner or VM & P naptha depending on what kind of primer I intend to use.

 

[Lanse]

This thing needs a rebuild and i'll probabally part it out. There is one valve thats open, and there was also one bent push rod in there. What should i do about that??

 

[keh]

I would think the open valve is stuck, but if you send it to a shop they will take care of it. Replace the push rod.

KEH

 

[Lanse]

thats what i figured. anyone got a push rod for this thing?? what should i tell the shop to do??

 

[Alex-41JDb]

Dissapointing that after all your begging for a tractor, you say your going to part it out. That is a fine tractor and you are getting more free and cheap stuff than I could ever hope for. Not to mention all this advice on topics most would read about and figure out. (Lots of how to restore tractor books that are very helpful along with manuals) I hope that you stay interested as a resto job takes years not weeks. Take your time and pick away at it. As far as sanding you should be able to get that whole tractor sanblasted for less than 200 ONCE you get it running. The sandblast will clean up all the rest and save you that much work and make the paint job last longer and look better. Also I would get the tractor running 100% before conserning myself with looks. Take the head to a machine shop (maybe someone can recommend one for you) or call around and tell them what you have (how many valves) and tell them you want it cleaned up and checked. The machine shop will then tell you whether the head needs to get planed (not the technical term) to flatten it and if you need valves and or seats. Can we get a picture inside those cylinders to see how bad we are stuck, and while your at it might as well take one of the head. The push rod is easily replacable and probably pretty cheap. I put my email up in case you need other help. Good luck and keep at it. Alex

 

[Lanse]

No, i definatially am not planning to and want to avoid it at all costs, in part because i dont want to let you guys down. No i am planning to keep it.

They are cheap, i researched them ($10 or so). The cylender walls are now covered in ATF but they had very, very little rust in them to begin with. I think the tractor has been used in the last few years, a new radiator hose and next to new rear tires.

 

[Anonymous-0]

ALEX- you should NEVER sandblast a running tractor. That sand will get into places you never dream of.

 

[Alex-41JDb]

You can do a lot of it without ever getting sand near the critical spots ( I guess I didnt specify that) Such as rims,wheels, hood, grill. The local guy here stretches intertubes over the mating spots engine to trans, trans to axle and then duct tapes them. Also if you are that dealthly afraid of sand soda blasting is becoming more popular. Thanks for looking out, Alex

 

[Janicholson]

Great advice well stated.
If you want to do this yourself, you will need (along with about a year of patience) a valve spring compressor, a rotary cup wire brush, a plastic faced hammer, and a supply of clean rags and a 2foot long piece of cardboard about 8 inches wide. The valves will come apart using the compressor, and should be put into the cardboard in order front to back (important) clean all components before disassembly. Work on spread out cloth. put a rag over the retainers when taking the springs and clips off to prevent loss. Befor removing the spring on the stuck valve, it is necessare to free it up. Spray PB blaster onto the stem From both the top and chamber sides and tap on it squarely both toward closed, and toward open. Do not beat it. Heating it with a propane torch around the head casting until it is warm (stay away from the spring) will assist in getting it free. Then you will be able to get the retainer off of it. To assist removal of the retainers I always use a 5/8" deep socket and the plastic hammer to unset the keepers. Place the socket over the valve stem and on the retainer. Strike the socket hard enough to bounce the retainer down on the valve stem about 1/16"/ this unseats the wedges and makes getting it apart with the compressor much easier. Clean and wire brush all valves to bare metal (do not grind on them) and wear a respirator, the dust is likely to contain lead and other bad compounds. Then take it in to be serviced. You will save some on disassembly and cleaning. JimN

 

[super99]

Do you remember if the bent push rod was on the valve that's stuck open? If I had to bet, I'd think that's the one. Take your hammer and hit the top of the valve to see if the spring compresses a little and if it does, the valve is not stuck. Spray penetrating oil top and bottom around stuck valve and tap GENTLY on the valve and try to work it loose. Do not beat on it, just tap lightly to help work the panther pee into it. I tried to send you e-mail, let me know if you get it. Chris

 

[Leroy]

Those push rods can be straightened, we have done it. And the stuck valve try soaking it with your penetraiting oil, what ever you are using on the pistons and them after soaking use a rubber mallot and hit the pushrod end of the valve possibly several times over several days and it may just pop loose and not have to do anything else to the valves.

 

[Lanse]

ok, i'll look into it. where could i find.....all that stuff??

 

[Animal]

OK kid, I am going to throw my 2cents in! Since I have spent most of my life being broke I think I know where you are coming from. First of all lets get that engine unstuck. Get that ATF out of there, and fill it with white vinegar, enough to come up 3 inches on each piston, get a marker and measure in the cylinder,so you know if the vinegar is going down or not, so clean that oil out of there real good, with moms laundry soap and hot water, let the vinegar stand for a couple of days. While doing that take the other fellas advice and loosen that valve use the lightest hammer you own and either a brass punch or a block of hard wood and smack that valve lightly from the top until you see it move, if you cant see it from the valve the spring will start stacking, once you get it to move work it back and forth until its free. You might want to check the other valves first by smacking them on the spring end,they will make a hollow sound if they are free. I would also put the wd 40 to them so I know they are lubed and free. When you get all those valves free and working good turn that head up side down and pour some gasoline on the top of those valves, walk away for a while then check if the gas is still there, if you have a pair of valves that are dry,look in your ports, if an intake port is wet and smells of gas you have an intake leaking, same with the exhaust ports. When you get to this point, we will continue with the next lesson, oh by the way stick the tractor in high gear and every time you walk past it to get a tool, drink a coke or take a leak rock it a couple of times,and rock it like you mean it......Animal

 

[Janicholson]

Automotive tool stores Northern Tool for less expensive stuff) NAPA for sure. JimN

 

[hillbillyOH]

I would check the rest of those push rods, as well. Place them on a flat surface and roll them with the palm of your hand. You should be able to feel a wobble if the rod is bent.

Do the valve guides and springs seem pretty solid? Give 'em a wiggle and see if they're sloppy or not.

 

[Lanse]

nope, theyre all very tight.

 

[Lanse]

Only on YT would i get an answer like that, I love this place, LOL

What do i do since 1 or 2 pistons are within 3 inches of the top of the cylender??

 

[Animal]

fill them as full as you can and keep an eye on the fluid level for droping. you will probably slop a little when you rock the tractor but no big deal.

 

[hillbillyOH]

That's good news. As long as they're all tight and free, you can probably put the head back on and try to start it once the cylinders are loose.

If it smokes, knocks, or has little/no compression, then you'll have to consider a rebuild.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Next time you want to work on a carb or soak it, save your self some time and buy a gallon of lacquer tinner. Pour what you need into a metal coffee can and set the carb in it to soak. Believe or not carb and choke cleaner is mostly lacquer thinner under aerosol pressure.

 

[trucker40]

That valve is stuck.You need to take it to a shop and have the valves ground.I dont see why you would part out a tractor because it needs overhauled.Probly 80% of the vehicles and tractors you own the rest of your life will need to be rebuilt.
You need to find some time to read on how a motor works,after you get your school work done.
Dont let frustration fool you.You can rebuild a motor,and when you are done,its a great feeling to know that you did that.I cant describe it.It makes you want to do it again.Its kind of like a fever in a good way.
A gas motor has a crankshaft,which is conected to a camshaft,which is inside a block,called a rotating assembly,there are pistons conected to the crankshaft,when the motor is turned over the camshaft turns by being hooked to the crankshaft by gears or chain a lot like on a bicycle,the gears or chain turn the cam at half the speed of the crank.There is a combustion stroke of the piston in one revolution where when the piston is all the way up both valves are closed,gas is ignited by the spark plug,piston goes down,when it comes up again the exhaust valve is open and it forces out the exhaust,then when it comes back up intake valve is open and it draws gas in.

 

[DickL]

You will not be able to check the valve guides with the spring on unless they are totaly shot. The spring will hold the valve head against the seat tight. You can put a 3/4" socket over the valve stem and whack it a coupla times with a hammer and the keepers will fall out in the socket. The valve can be taken out. After it is oiled up and the guide cleaned out and oiled you can then see if it has any side wiggle. I have yard sticks with holes drilled to keep the valves in order.

 

[trucker40]

I had to stop and think of how to say the rest.Every time the crankshaft turns one time the piston is up twice and down twice,so for the motor to fire all 4 pistons and turn the cam shaft one revolution,every piston will be up and down 4 times,the crank will turn 2 times.The cam opens and closes the valves,and it does it at the very best time in order to get a good load of fuel in and the exhaust out.So its air/gas mix in as piston goes down,intake valve open,piston comes up intake valve closed and fire,piston down back up again exhaust valve open.The cam has lumps on it to open the valves,a lifter rides on the cam lump and pushes a pushrod which pushes a rocker that opens the valve as the cam turns the valve spring pulls the valve back shut(if its not stuck)and closes it again.When both valves are closed on a cylinder(you know because your rockers are loose if adjusted right and pushrods are all the way down)thats the combustion stroke.The other stroke is exhaust.Thats a 4 stroke engine.There are 2 stroke engines,but yours isnt a 2 stroke.
The cam allows the valve to open sooner or later and thats called timing.Also the distributer can adjust timing a little by changing when the spark plug fires like just a tiny fraction past or before top dead center of the compression stroke.

 

[DickL]

If your Mom or Dad can get the head up here to me this spring I will grind the valves and check it out for you. I am about three hours due North of you. That is if I am still able.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Stuck pistons are not the only way an engine will be stuck. It could have run low on oil and spun a rod or crank bearing. Does your school have an automotives shop? Maybe you could take the head there to have it looked at. If not is there a trade school with automotives you could take it to. And lastly, where do heavy duty or auto mechanics take their apprenticeship training near you? They need stuff to work on to learn practical experience. They might not even charge you for labour or if they do, it will be very reasonable. Schools are always looking for equipment to work on. Manufacturers and larger dealers often supply equipment. You have an interesting project they might be real interseted in. I realize you want to do it yourself but it takes some knowledge and experience to do it right. You could work on other less complicated parts of the tractor. I hope you didn't think the tractor could be fixed to running condition for $1000 or so. Some people spend several thousand just on the paint job. Cost is the main reason fixing up an old tractor can take years. Try not to lose the motivation you had when you first bought it. I think that maybe you were hoping by some kind of beginners luck or miracle that the tractor didn't need too much work to get running and you could impress all of us by getting it running in short order. We are still impressed with your enthusiasm. If it takes longer, it takes longer. The end result is what matters. Don't give up now. Dave

 

[colekicker]

Well, I haven"t tried to help yet, so I will give it a shot. It the top of the cylinder walls look good, it may be on the bottom of the cylinder wall below the piston. I had a tractor that one time had rust just below the piston rings from condensation. I had to push the pistons out the top, ball hone it and it was ready to run again. You might take a light and look up under the engine now that you have the oil pan off and see if the cylinders are clean or have some surface rust underneath there.

 

[Fergienewbee]

Lanse;

A dog trainer I know is very fond of the following--"It takes as long as it takes." Some dogs learn faster, are more cooperative, etc. Others aren't. Stick with it. Maybe a few short sessions would be more encouraging than an all day lesson in frustration. Good luck.

Larry

 

[CJ3b_jeep]

I just gotta get in on this. I've never had a stuck motor on anything I've owned, but have helped free up several. Stuck valves are par for the course, as are bent push rods. You can get the head re-worked for not a whole lot of money. Have new seals and guides installed, valves ground and you should be ready to go. You can straighten the push rod, but a replacement is a better option.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Paint dose not make a tractor run.Never has never will.A bit of knowing what you are doing helps a lot.