Ethics question

[jon f mn]

An older neighbor, 80+ years old, is trying to sell his farm. He has a lot of old farm machinery and scrap metal laying around. A lot of it is Case which is where my interest comes in. He needs to clean this up to sell his place. I have been doing some trading with him on some welding and labor in exchange for some parts I wanted. Now it's getting closer to needing to be done and he is going to start hauling in stuff to the scrap yard. He does still have some things left with good parts that I could sell for him. Not only would this get him more money, but would help out other colectors with parts.

The issue for me starts here.

1. He doesn't need the money as he is wealthy, so it's not a deal where I would be helping him supliment his retirment.

2. I'm not wealthy.

So my question is, is it ethical to make deals on each piece with him for the best deal I can get and then sell off the parts for what I can get, keeping the profits. Or am I obligated to just facilitate the sale and pass on all the money less my direct costs?

 

[RBoots]

I guess I would tell him that I'd hate to see it just scrapped, and that there is a lot of good stuff there that maybe you could sell. Then, see if he would give you a price on everything, or just the stuff with good parts. Maybe it would be cheaper than you think, maybe he would be glad to see it go to use and see you make a little on it. I don't know about your area, but scrap steel is still around $40 a ton last I checked in my area. If you didn't have the money to buy everything, assuming he would sell it to you, maybe you could buy the stuff that would give you the highest return in parts, then go back and buy whats left. If you tell him, I just don't have the money to buy all of it right now, but I can buy (these pieces) right now, but WOULD like to buy the rest soon. Assuming you weren't causing him to be over his intended target date of getting rid of all of it. Once it goes to the scrapyard, it will either be crushed or very high priced parts. There is one near me that you can buy parts REALLY cheap, as long as you can get there before they start cutting it up. The other will pay $150 for a junk H Farmall, put aside to sell parts off from, and then want $750 for a seized up core engine. Just be honest with him and I'm sure you'll come out all right.

Ross

 

[guido]

Hello jon f mn,

Why not just ask him what he wants to do. Tell him that that what you get from him you intent to resale. I think you will say its O.K. with him,

Guido.

 

[RJKeith]

Just be honest and tell him what you are doing. A lot of people look for bargains then resell for a profit, nothing wrong with that, it is the basis of commerce. But to error on the ethical side of caution, explain to him what you are doing, and that parts or even complete implements or tractors of his may be highly prized by those of us fond of J I Case.

 

[jon f mn]

I should add that I have to load anything sold whole and tear down the stuff sold for parts where different folks want part of the whole.

 

[Bobl1958]

If you are figuring on hauling it home and selling parts, I would offer him scrap price (which is what he is going to get) and haul it home and part it out, then haul the rest to the scrapyard. I'm guessing he would be happy if you did that for him. I would let him know your plans, but since you say he doesn't need the money, I am guessing he just wants rid of it, regardless of how it goes, or to where it goes. Visit with him and tell him your plans. You'll probably own it cheap, if you can get it off his property. Good luck - Bob

 

[M-MAN]

How about making the best deal you can for each piece and then selling what you don't need for a fair price? I know it's an old outdated way of doing things but I'm old and outdated so it works for me. Nothing at all wrong with you making money off the deal.

 

[Ferd]

Ask what he wants for the lot. If you think the price is fair, buy and it's yours to do with as you please - no explainations required. If it's more than you want to pay, pass and let him dispose of it as he pleases. He may even come up with a better number than you expected.

 

[Dave H (MI)]

Jon - I have to take an ethics exam every year to maintain my license. Lots of fun stuff like this on those. If you know that there is an Essex Tri-whatchamacallit in the pile and there is only two ever made and it is worth a fortune and you do not tell him...that is unethical. Buying a pile of junk and parting it out to make a profit to feed your family is very ethical. That is normal business practices. He does not want to do it, he just wants it gone. You are entitled to make a profit from your efforts. His age is meaningless by the by.

 

[ss55]

First, I would determine the maximum price I would pay, the price where I would be indifferent whether I bought it or not.

Then let the seller name his price for what I am interested in. Do point out any high value items to the seller.

Odds are either: a deal will be made that makes both parties happy; or both parties will be happy to walk away.

 

[01gentdc]

jon , it depends on the personality and of course anyomn e that is close by telling him what he needs to do ,, and how his horse sense is... if you can talk with him and he the type of guy that you could say exactly what you just told us? ,,.or would he take offense if you take a profit of even 10 percent ...

 

[JMS/.MN]

Common thread is just be up front with him on what you plan to do. Most people highly value honesty. Scrap in St. Cloud was $60 per ton, for unprepared, last week. Not a great alternative.

 

[Ray]

If your cleaning the place up you should get the parts for free for your labor. He's probably going to scrap everything anyhow.

 

[w1ebb]

The man wants his place cleaned up which seems to include hauling off the "old iron." It should be fair to give him scrap price for the lot and bush hog, blade, and otherwise clean the place up. This way he gets some money and his place cleaned up. You get the stuff you need or can resell, and take the rest to sell at the scrap yard. Both of you win.

Good luck

Scott

 

[JRSutton]

agree with others about being open about it.

If he's scrapping it anyways, just offer a fair equivelant scrap price that you're both comfortable with.

Selling that kind of stuff takes work. That's why he doesn't want to bother with it, he wants a simple transaction. If you want to put the effort into separating it, categorizing it, listing it, dealing with customers, storing it till it sells, shipping it - I don't think you've got the slightest thing to worry about if you make a couple bucks on it.

 

[Mike M]

Well around here they call an auction/realtor company and sell it at auction and it's all done and gone and usually brings the best money that way.
If there is stuff you want you make your best deal and it is yours to do with as you please. If you think it will be an issue make sure he knows up front you will resell some as time permits.

 

[Ron-MO]

My opinion, there is nothing unethical with what ever deal you make, provided you do not mislead him or try to take unfair advantage. Ask him what he wants for the lot and you will haul it and clean it up. Once it is yours, it is up to you on what you do with it, and if you make a few $$, or get things you want or need there is nothing wrong with that considering you put time and labor into cleaning up his place, and everyone benefited.

 

[in-too-deep]

Any parts for a C? Steel wheels, drawbar, manifold? Email's open. I think you'd be doing fine to offer scrap value and then sell what you can. Just be up front, like everyone said.

 

[BarnyardEngineering]

Yeah, I'm not seeing any ethical conundrums here myself... As long as you make a deal with the guy and you adhere to it, there's nothing to worry about.

 

[Greg1959]

jon f mn- I kinda disagree with the posters about offering him scrap price. You got to include your time, expenses and using your equipment to clean up the place. Otherwise, you may come up short.

I would offer scrap price minus your estimate for hauling and cleaning up the place.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Patsdeere]

I agree being up front and honest is worth a lot. The way I would approach would be a little different. I would figure out what I wanted to pay for something (or everything) and then approach him and ask what he wanted for it. If he went for all I would say that I would keep some, part some and scrap some. Then if you know him as well as it sounds, I would toss in that if I did really well on something I would make a donation in his name to some organization. This can be especially rewarding since he doesn't need the money. Heck if I was in the same spot and if I got a good deal, I would even pass the favor on to some FFA/4h groups and then pass on the info to him to show that it isn't about the money per say, but more about the good will.

 

[LAA]

Make an offer on the lot knowing that you can make a good percentage profit for your time and trouble, its done every day all over the country, nothing in the slightest unethical, as a matter of fact, it is one of the best deals the seller will get because no expense and no haggling piece by piece.

 

[Dick2]

You should explain to him that you are willing to take some or all of the items and that you are WILLING TO TAKE THE RISK of disposing of them and maybe even make a little money on the deal - if you are lucky!

Maybe he hasn't sold those items before because he doesn't want to take the risk of selling them. Right now he probably doesn't want to do the work either. Discuss those matters before you discuss price; he may go high or he may go low - you make the final decision then what you want to do.

 

[paul]

You should make something on the work you do as well.

His being wealthy or poor really has no bearing.

If you are helping him make more, you should get a cut of that 'more'.

The hard part is finding that magical line of what is fair, and that is your question of course.

As long as he is getting more than the scrap iron price for his stuff, and as long as you are getting something for your time, you should be in the middle there somewhere and be fine.

Paul

 

[Earl-IL]

Haul it across the scale & pay him 10 % above scrap. That should be fair.

 

[Hay hay hay]

If he is wealthy, he is unlikely to be naive. He has probably been buying and selling stuff all his life.
Why not just talk to him man to man, no pretense. You want to buy it, he needs to sell it. Make it good for both.
But unless you are trying to take advantage, and get it for way less than it is worth....
Why dance around?

 

[jon f mn]

Thanks for the advice! I should clarify that I am not doing the scrap iron, that is a much bigger job than I can handle this summer. What I have been doing is making deals with him on things that I need at a price a bit above scrap price, so far about 150-200%. So far that is one tractor and a couple other pieces. The tractor was worth about $250.00 over the scale, I paid him $500, kept the stuff I needed, then sold the rest for $500.00 after a day and a half work to tear it apart. I will keep doing that for the things that someone shows interest in. I just didn't know if that was a good way to do it. I only mentioned the age and money thing because if he had been on a fixed income and needed the money then I would have just done it for cost without and kept nothing, but I can't aford to donate my time for those not in need so if there was no money in it I would have just walked away.

 

[Janicholson]

Jon the % of and quality of the smiles on you faces drives the bargain. Jim

 

[flying belgian]

There's nothing unethical about being paid for your work. I agree with a poster below. You clean the place up and knock the weeds down, He should give you the scrap. Even at that by the time everything is said and done I don't think you are going to get very rich off it.

 

[coonie minnie]

I think you need to ask yourself if you are interested in some of the stuff to keep because you like it, or are you just interested in making a buck off some of it? Then be clear with him what your intentions are. If he is OK with your intentions. so be it. If not, let him haul the stuff for scrap.

When it is all said and done, you need to be able to look him in the eye and feel good about things.

 

[Galen Houk]

What you are doing is just fine. I know of similar situations where a scraper hauled away loads of scrap and said they would pay when all done. They left the last bit of scrap and never paid for anything. He is fortunate that you are so generous.

 

[Mike Fitz]

Just tell him what you want and what you plan to do, if he is good with it (my guess is he will be if you have a good relation ship) everyone goes away happy, if not no hard feelings from him,and no guilty conscience for you.Mike