(800) 853-2651
SHOP NOW

Extra Classes-NATPA Pull

Yesterday's Tractor Forums
A

Anonymous-0

Well-known Member
There has been a lot of discussion among some pullers lately about adding a 5mph class or putting a speed limit on Division 4 to increase the number of hooks. The Generic G and I talked at great lenghts and came up with the following. We feel Division 4 should be left alone (No speed limit) since that class is growing. Instead of creating another points class, which we have a lot of already, we have two jackpot pulls. For instance 5850 and 7250 at 5mph. Division 2, 3, 4, and 5 be eligible.
The only rule change would be that everyone could run 20% over stock rpms. The classes would pay 5 places, $200, 100, 100, 50 & 50. This is basically what they did at Tallmadge, except for the pay back and they had about 40 tractors in each class. WIN! WIN! WIN! We get our 5mph class, the club makes out and we get a chance to pull for money. All comments welcome. Art & Glenn
 
Norbert Bremer and I talked about this at Norfolk. I wondered if an 8mph limit in 4 would work. I know this is a problem for pullers that want to go fast versus the dollars it takes to go fast and be competitive. I see a migration of pullers from 4 to 3 and 3 to 2 but I would like 2 to remain an entry level class. Bear in mind I have not pulled NATPA for a long time ,I do plan on pulling div. 3 at Lincoln, I also realize that you pullers in div. 4 probably have a better grasp on the situation than I do.
 
Yes I agree with Art leave Div.4 alone for speed, but let some other enigine rules get in it.(spacer plates, 800 hd jugs etc.) It is growing in some areas and dying in other areas. The 5 mph thing does sound good but DON'T FORGET ABOUT THE LITTLE TRACTORS like a 3750 that is at Tallmadge!! IF you allow Div. 2,3,4 and 5 in the 5mph class I think the Div. 2 tractors should get a handy cap do to non cut tires. Such as weighing lets say 100 +/- pounds ???

~ Dan Smith
 
Art are you getting ready to go fishing? This can of worms you opened will last all season. I hope everyone who participates in this reply leaves their NATPA number.
Ken 351
 
The Div III class is too slow both in speed and rpm. Tractors that have to run below 1400 are at a disadvantage. Why not go with 5mph and 20%, you will have more participation when you do.
 
Sounds great, I'd be there! My 413 cube UB is illegal in Div 3&4. CAFPC did 3800#, 4800#, and 5800# jackpots last year and it was a smashing success at 4.5 mph. I believe Div3 is fine at 3.5mph other than a couple questionable engine restrictions. It allows most large and small engines to compete without major advantages.

A 5.0 jackpot would let some of the backwoods boys with illegal yet cheaper, bolt together engines come out to play, test their stuff, and get NATPA some more hooks. After all, speed and RPM limits are the great equalizers.
 
I agree with you Full Pull H. Lets have 1958 and older equipment, 20%, with Div V stuff. This would let in the easy equipment without having to go around making special parts. That was the way Div IV was originally setup untill Six O'clock deadline came at Indy one time. Div III needs to have the original SAE flange size carb.
Ken 351
 
i agree 20% over and let the hd minnie parts in, let the olivers have 12 port heads and change it to 58 so the 460"s can run and keep the 6 cylinder minnies out. but keep the govenors in stock location and keep out deckplates or spacer plates. that should keep some difference between div. 4 and div. 5. i think everyones thoughts are headed in the right direction now if we can just get some people interested in making a change. i also think the 5 mph jackpots would be great but they need a lighter one to go along with the other two. maybe a 4250, 5850, and 7250. just my two cents.
 
Once again a red tractors thoughts. Ok to let a 6 cyl. red tractor but not a minnie. Why not till 59 or 60 instead of 58. And as far as div. 4, with all the big engines being built, why not have a set rpm across the board like 2200 or 2500.
 
I dont have a red or gold tractor, but I can kinda understand the point of view on letting red 6's in and not gold ones. It takes a lot of work and money to make a red 6 as big as a stock gold one. Do the same stuff to a gold 6 cylinder and its 3x as big as the worked over red one. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with letting red ones in and not gold ones, but I understand where the argument is coming from.

On the other hand, since what is being discussed is a speed limit class, none of the above really aplies too much. Our club in MO has no year limit, no rpm limit. HD parts, 7 main blocks, 12 port heads are allowed in ALL classes. A 2 cylinder Deere can run right with 460/560's and 6 cylinder Molines. In a speed limit class like this, you only need 4 rules.

Weight: Dont be overweight--easy to police...everyone crosses the scales, no problem there.

Tires: 18.4x38 Tires. Size is on the sidewall, easy to check for proper tire size.

Hitch: 20" hitch. Hitch height is checked when weight is, its either right or it isnt...pretty simple.

Speed: Dont go too fast. If someone goes too fast, horn goes off and tractor is DQ. Another real easy one to enforce.

Enforcement of these 4 rules is foolproof, and will keep things even. Who cares what numbers are on blocks or heads or carburetors. You will only go as fast as the speed limit, in this case 5MPH. Its not rocket science.
 
Art How about a NATPA 50/50 class maybe 4850 , 5850, 7250. 5 mph 20% over and payback 3 to 5 places good for the NATPA good for the promoters. Go easy on the rules for those classes. Get some new and old pullers to come back to NATPA for another try at it .I know there are some pullers out there with an attitude towards our club maybe we can get them back . We have very good leadership that are open minded for the good of the club and we could change some opinions for the good. Leave Div 4 alone and think about div III and a 4 mph change does anyone think that it would hurt the JD Guys? I dont know. We need to change a few things Just my opinion of course.
 
a matter of fact i dont have anything against big 6 cyl. minnies. i run one in div. 5 #6000, #6500,and #7500. well its a massey 95, but really its a minnie. and as far as old tractors i collect molines. so i dont think i am takin favoritism for IH. but there has got to be a difference between div 4 and div 5, and if you let 6 cyl minnies in the same class as the 4 cyl. minnies then there wont be any 4 cyl. left in the class. i just think there is a lot of red 6cyls out there that can be coming to these pulls, along with 4 cyl. minnies with hd parts. my goal is to get more hooks in the faster classes. that is why natpa members need to bring some of this up at the meeting. and if it passes we need to promote it so the word gets out to the people that have these tractors.
 
dale,
i hate to disagree but making div 3 a 4mph class does not seperate it anymore from div. 4, to me it makes it closer to div. 4 by raising the speed. and we need all them jd guys at these pulls and they like 3.5 alot better then 4 mph. atleast the ones i have talked to. but i do agree on the 50/50 jackpot classes, i think thats a wonderful idea.
 
I have enjoyed pulling with NATPA for a few years.I skipped a year and then came back for a couple of pulls (always had a good time)BUT I could never understand the div 2 guys complaining about the div 3 guys dropping down UNTIL I came back a year later and seen all of the div 4 Olivers in the div 3.Now I pull an Oliver so it is not a brand specific issue.The problems that I see (this is just one mans opinion) are 1.there is NO CLEAR difinitive difference between div 3 & di4 motors eg.,Stock manifold vs Interior enhancement only?? Who can tell if a manifold has been enhanced interiorlly?2. How come an M can run a 450 head and intake but an 88 cannot run a 1650 head? and While we are at it why is anything under 4000 protected from the 77s but a 5xx ci88 can pull @ 4500. Again I have never gotten anything but a fair hook from the NATPA but the last pull I went to I did notice alot smaller numbers in div 3 5500???
 
Sounds to me like a group called USAP Rules.
Works for them.
Maybe it's time to work together on some classes for both clubs so we can pull all over with just one tractor. It would help both clubs in the long run.
Let the healing begin.
 
I agree with Drew about letting some rules slide in these classes, because the MPH is a big equalizer. There seems to be quite a few pullers ,at least on here, that say they would go if they could pull what they have, run what you brung if you will.

The one problem is the promoters have been using this as a way to afford to put on the pull. However if enough pullers showed up that would be taken care of. There would need to be a class for the lighter pullers also. If everyone showed up that says they would on this site with the rule changes time could become a factor.

Maybe Brad could chime in on here and give some other pointers that we are not thinking about. We do need his input, come on Brad let's hear what you think. All in all I think it is a great idea and one that several members have talked about for awhile. I would sure like to meet more pullers that I read on here, and to show them that we are a good bunch and would welcome them. It does hurt when I read on here that they think we're a bunch of folks that make rules just to disallow them.

It's a great idea and one that needs to be done that's for sure.

Actually any board member would be welcome, let's hear what you have to say.

Jim 1392
 
Should have said two or three jackpot classes, 3650, 5500, 5850 according to the tractors available. SORRY LITTLE TRACTORS! Art
 
If we are still talking about SPEED LIMIT jackpot classes, bring on the 6 cyl MM. In this situation the 4-bangers are not deterred. They make plenty of horsepower and are much cheaper to build. Open class is a slightly different story.
 
Art I think it's good to at least have some input before the meeting on these idea's .Lite, heavy classes does'nt matter aslong as we try something alittle different. In this economy we could take advantage of some puller's that want to pull with NATPA but don't always meet all of our rules and dont have the resourses to spend a pile of money to meet the rules just makes some good business sense to me . Just my opinion it could be wrong? Dale 1186
 
You could let 4cyl. run 2500 rpms and 6cyl like that case or 460's run maybe 1900 or something like that. I just think the are rpms difference in div.4 can make a diffence for example a U with 540 cubes and a five star with 540 cubes with no speed limit the 5-star will transfer more horse to other the other end of the track with its rpm adv.
 
The rules for NATPA is becoming rules for alot of pulls. So the rules just do not reflect the NATPA they reflect more than you now. So you div. 4 and 5 should have some thought behind them.
 
I dont think it should matter 6 cyl mm VS 6 cyl 560's...They have no business pulling against each other. If you take a 500 cube IH and run against a 1200 cube MM in 6000, and get beat, what the %#(*? did you expect? If you can afford a div 4 IH 6 cyl motor, you can afford to have it in 3500 - 4500 easy.

Another thing. NATPA has a good set of CORE rules, with some awesome people, but face it..DIV 4 sucks and Div 5 is a JOKE! No light tractors, very few heavy tractors. Dont you think its time to change a few things? There are alot of good running 7 main olivers and HD component MM's out there. They need to be let in. who's gonna complain? The 4 Farmalls and 2 MM's already competing? If I were them, I'd just be happy there are more tractors to pull against, and more money to win..

...and another thing that grinds my gears a little..

if you have a red tractor, my god, you can run 2 different intakes, 2 different exhausts, (all recast) and a re cast head! Hell, and M didn't even COME on propane! God forbid an Oliver run a different manifold or head, an Allis run Leroi components, or an MM run stuff that came from the gosh-durn factory!!?? You cant even save 100 bucks and buy a welded up 6 cyl manifold, made to fit a 4 cylinder, instead of buying the cast Peterson intake!!>? AND ITS THE SAME THING! (Not that there is anything wrong with a Peterson, its a really nice piece!)

Thanks for reading. And no, I dont have an NATPA #, and will not, until they offer something a little more diverse. (although a 20% 5 - 6 mph, with more relaxed rules sure is a step in the right direction)
 
I do not pull NATPA and the reason is i dont want to drive a 100miles and tex commite say you can not becuse some little thing is not right. Let me pull and tell me to corect it before you come again would be OK. I am close Pricton where i pull with USAP. Would go to Mo pulls also. I pull with differnt clubs and can live with there rules & your rules but like I said when I drive a 100+ miles i want to know I will get to hook. I have servel frends that have been sent home for things that seem perty pennie in my opion and they do not go to anymore of your puuls.
 
Furball, could you expand on the "Div. IV sucks and Div. V is a joke", I at least don't have a clue what you mean. There's one of each in each weight class I think. And I'm asking this nicely, don't want an argument just an explanation. Thanks.

Jim
 
I do not know where you get your information, but I know for a fact that if the little thing you are talking about is not a safety item you will be told that you can pull this time but have it fixed for the next pull. I have seen people lend their "willy bars" to help a new puller. The techs are very helpful when it comes to a new puller. Art
 
I agree the speed limit makes smaller horse power tractors closer to the open speed tractors, but if you take a tractor that pulls 5 mph at full throttle in 2nd gear and a open speed tractor that pulls 5 mph in 4th gear at 1/4 throttle. The open tractor wins 90 percent of the time.
 
We are having a big pull in Wi.in june we have 3 different divisions plus a few "money classes"what would it take to get you guys to come up here?? we have classes from 3000-7000 paced,and no pace.We also could do whatever you guys want to do to make classes for the money classes,,,this pull could have a really big purse if we get the numbers!
 
maybe we should talk about 4 mph in div 3. i think we could attract some usap pullers.i am a natpa guy but have been to usap pulls and there is nothing wrong with them. we should try to get along and help each other out and maybe both clubs can survive the trying times'
 
Mr . Furball and any other puller's send me a E-mail with a detailed description of rules you would like to see in div III and Div 4 . also idea's for rules in the 5 mph classes .Div 3 and 4 are the only two up for debate this year and I will take them to the meeting and we can get some idea's on them there . Dont be shy just talkin about it on this site wont get anything done so let's see the idea's.

Dale #1186

[email protected]
 
Ok, I see. Do the IH 460/560 tractors usually pull 3500-5500? Seems like they are six cylinders but pull more in Oliver type classes compared to the 5500-8500 GVI Molines. The bigest G/GVI threat would be a WK-40 or W-9.
 
Clintonia Antique Farm Power Club did the best they could to set up generous speed limit rules at 4&5 mph as well as creating the "Michigan Shootout" Fowler, MI jackpot pull. Things turned out extremely well. Check out www.cafpc.webs.com. I'll be glad to e-mail you. I am building a M-M tractor specifically to run NATPA 3&4 rules, so that I am able to run everywhere. I have HD800 parts, but instead I am having more expensive blocks made that are equal in cubes, yet fit the rules better. God bless Henderson Power. Too bad we can't pass a rule to regulate the weather for outdoor pulls. Hope to see you in Berrien Springs, MI.

Ethan Berry
The Mopower Ranch
Vermontville, MI
517-243-0617
 
When we first started pulling with NATPA in Columbia my boy's tractor had the wrong hitch and no fenders for the class he was going in and there was another problem that I can't recall right now. We did have to lower the hitch, which didn't take too long, and get the rest fixed before we pulled again at the next pull. We had a good time and met great folks that made me want to get my own tractor. Just a real good bunch of people to know and help you when help is needed. There's none better and we all wish people would try again if they have had a bad experience in the past.

Jim
 
First a few observations:

From the number off hooks in the classes I would guess that Div 2 and 3 are the most popular with the pullers themselves.

Div 4 and 5 are popular with spectators and I"m sure if more pullers could afford too they would compete there.

Now for the rules...

Bring back the tire restrictions for Div 3. Leave everything else in 3 alone...

10% and 3.5mph to 20% no mph limit is quite a jump. Create a 20% 6-8 mph class with all other Div 4 rules. I"m sure some Div 3 tractors could move up and some former Div 4 tractors could compete. Call it Div 3+...

Leave Div 4 alone...

Open Div 5 up to fewer engine part restrictions. Moline never used 800 parts in farm tractors, they don"t belong in anything less than true open class. Most pullers have taken the parts well past what MM intended anyways...

Derrick Otis

Not an NATPA member... YET...
 
We were just at Tallmadge and did not have tip bars on our div. 2 tractor. Tec said it would be okay to pull. Just pay attention to the flagman if he says to high STOP and there would be no problem fix for next pull. Everything Ok no problem
 
I have read the whole string of post and would have to agree on your point of view the most. I really think it takes an outsider looking in to see "The Whole Picture". NATPA needs to look and listen to what you are saying. Div 3 and 4 are to much alike. I also agree with you on the tire limit in Div. 3 and leave the rest alone in that division. One of the reasons I left NATPA was all they wanted to do was control the rules for a few and not look out for the best interest of the "Whole" organization. At one time I made all there pulls for several years. Today I wouldn't walk across the road to watch one, not because I don't like to tractor pull just because of principal. I met allot of nice people and consider them good friends pulling with NATPA. I wouldn't say I wouldn't come back but now that I have pulled with USAP I have no reason to go back. Things have improved at NATPA as some of the problems have left the organization, but they still need to get there classes in order. They do not need more classes alike, rather more difference between them. Stop using Div 3 for practice classes for Div 4. The first step in the right direction would be pick your division and stay in it. No jumping between them. This would not be a problem or a need for a rule if class rules and differences were correctly set up. Just another opinion from and outsider looking in.
A Past NATPA Member.
P.S. I did go to several rule meetings and seen rules changed by a controlling few later. They were not safety rules either.
 
No problem Jim..sometimes its hard to gauge what or how someone is saying something, because there is no "tone of voice" when typing :)

"Div 4 sucks"..
Republic MO...'08...5500 Div 4, Jim (you) and Art.
Wauseon OH ..'08...5500 div 4, Art, Dale, Randy,
Tom, Jerry
Princeton ..09..5500 Div 4, Art, Randy, Dale, Stark, and you.

Well, 2 tractors in a class...a high of like 6 or so...WOW! I sure want to spend $20,000 to run against maybe 6, and hopefully more than 2 tractors. (Nothing against the guys already running it)

And its not just 5500..look at 3500...Monroe, Feldpausch, Martin, maybe Crum, if the location is right..2 Masseys that really arent competitive open tractors (no offense meant), and Greg Lemmons If he shoes up ONE or TWO pulls a year..
WOW..3 hard core tractors....I SURE WANT TO BUILD ONE TO RUN THIS DIVISION!

"div 5 is a joke" ...3 88's that show up in light class...Jerry Leek in 5500, and when Arlan Cambell, Ron Hogan, or the 'Captain (I think he has a GVI) show up with a 6cyl MM...in 6500 and 7500..oh yeah, and Paumier (sp?) pulling alone..

Anyway (I'm using my beer drinking conversational voice here) can you see what I am saying?
Sorry, I didnt have time to get to the 'puter last night..Mr.(I liked that, Dale) Furball.
 
Well I guess if that's your only problem with it we're in pretty good shape. It isn't because we don't want more tractors because we do. I thought there was really something wrong. If you look at other classes there are not many tractors there either. Oh and the Captain pulls Div. IV and Dan doesn't pull in Div. V either.

I'm glad there isn't really a problem other than huummm oh well I guess you are the only one with a problem because those of that choose to pull it get along great, joke each other and have one heck of a goog time, we're so dumb that we even tell each other what to do to beat each other. That sir (Mr. Furball) IS the reason that I pull, the fun of it. Not the big money that you must make doing it.

Jim
 
sorry, must be thinking of another GVI. Thought the Captain had one..I know he has a 5 star. must be getting my MM's mixed up. as for Dan, I stand corrected. it is Div 4. Just had a senior moment..way early..

I pull for the fun of it too. But there could be a lot more pulling, and alot more fun to be had if there was a or two class that embraced a few more mods. Face it, I know if you cut MM's loose, with factory parts, not a Farmall or Oliver should ever win an open class again. But when there is enough demand for more venues, woulnt it be in the best interest of a club to accept and facilitate these hooks? Who's responsibility is it? so either I'm wrong, or somethings growing careless. I just see it as NATPA, Not All Tractor Parts Allowed. Whats it going to hurt? If you thought I had a "real" problem, you must deep down inside think that there might be a thing or two that needs to be addressed?! I just think its funny..MOST (not all, dont worry, I'm not saying you..) NATPA guys are soo darn scared to express an opinion, almost like a fear of getting blackballed, and having their membership revoked..god forbid you fall out of the "Farmall" clique, or the "Oliver Brotherhood" because you think a little different.
Now, I'm not trying to start an arguement here..But my opinion is just as good as ANYONE on this board...Just like Dylan said.. "The times they are a changin'.." The NATPA has a GOOD base set of rules. But, over time, everything needs maintenance. Oliver can fall back on the 310, Allis can fall back on Leroi, MM can fall back on HD's and a Farmall has nothing. I also think that has something to do with it. But, thats just MY opinion.
 
Sorry MR Furball we had a really good thread running until you came with that last reply .I still dont have any e-mails with idea's you seem highly educated and able to express your views with great ease you even have the ability to research the number of Div 4 tractor's that pull in the NATPA I for one am impressed. So go ahead and give us your real name and number so we probe your intellegence alittle more. Hell us dumb A$$ Div 4 guy's cant help it we love to spend money and go fast even if it's just 4 of us at a time . we cant wait till the championship pull there might be 15 or 20 of the best div 4 puller's in the USA to pull against Hell we will be sittin in high cotton then I cant wait . So Furball come on out to columbia and watch and bless us with your view's

Dale # 1186 Div 4 guy
 
It's evident you don't have a clue as to what you're talking about so I'll leave it at that. The whole idea when Art started this thread was about change, and I don't believe he or anyone else is afraid of getting BLACKBALLED as you put it. We are the club and in as much are trying to make it better and get more folks to come out and express their opinion before the meeting at the end of the year. We want to do it right the first time. You are more than welcome to do that also.

And yes there are rules that can be changed. For one, I see no reason why a 30 series John Deere can't pull with the other 2 cylinders since they have no advantage that I know of.

Oh and in my opinion you should ALWAYS capitalize GOD. Thanks.

Jim
 
Hey Dale. Furball seems torqued over some of the same things many of us MM guys are. I love to see fellas spend as much money as possible on their tractors. It's fun and they bring me much enjoyment and competition.

I could have built a G crank U engine, but pistons and parts from two engines break the bank. Instead I bored a common 403 and bolted it in. 100 horses, minimum cost, minimum hassle, off the shelf MM specs and parts. It's considered Div5 by NATPA, so I don't bring it.

My current 600+ cube U project could have been easily and cheaply done with off the shelf HD800 parts and some stroke, but in order to pull, I am having expensive blocks gutted to comply with NATPA rules. All to acheive the same size engine.

I love going to these pulls, but it might be self-evident to see how NATPA could increase hooks. Especially in a speed limit class. Just ask any MM, AC, and even Oliver guys. Allow all OEM factory parts and/or bolt-on aftermarket pieces. Updraft carbs and cast iron manifolds of any type. Former "local-only" pullers will flock to NATPA pulls and pay hook fees.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Yesterday's Tractor Forums
Buy Tractor Parts Here Buy Tractor Manuals Here

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Copyright © 1997-2025 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy

Back
Top