Extra thick head gasket

[Anonymous-0]

Is there such a thing as an extra thick head gasket for a 9N? If so, where can i find one.

 

[Bruce (VA)]

Not that I know of....but why not tell us what the problem is that you're trying to solve w/ an extra thick head gasket? Maybe someone has a workable solution.
50 Tips

 

[Anonymous-0]

Long story......

Working on a firend's 9N as a favor. I got into the engine and found a cobbled up disaster from a prior overhaul. Anyway due to some pitting, the block and head had been very lightly plained. I checked the head to piston clearance and the piston lightly kissed the head without a gasket. I touched up the head and solved the problem. I then put the head and new gasket on. The engine starts and runs great except a little "Tick" which sounds like a lifter. I adjusted the lifters 3 times. Still "Tick tick tick." I pulled the head and the sleeves seem tight. I cannot find any evidence of piston or valve interference on the head. I used sleeve lock tite when I put the new sleeves in just to make sure. I have no idea why the ticking but am about to throw the tractor in the lake. The manifold was plained and a new gasket installed. I am a very detailed person and took no short cuts with this engine. My favor has backfired and I am sick of the project. My friend doesn't want to sink a fortune in the engine either. I was just thinking a thick gasket might make extra sure of no contact. The sound is coming from the lifter area. (A machine shop recently did a valve job).

 

[pikewi]

Sounds frustrating,especially for a meticulous person.
There are some posts in the archives about doubling up head gaskets but I can't find them right now.
For what it's worth, my 9N has been makin' a ticking sound for 10 years. I thought they were just that way

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 15:40:16 04/24/10) Long story......

Working on a firend's 9N as a favor. I got into the engine and found a cobbled up disaster from a prior overhaul. Anyway due to some pitting, the block and head had been very lightly plained. I checked the head to piston clearance and the piston lightly kissed the head without a gasket. I touched up the head and solved the problem. I then put the head and new gasket on. The engine starts and runs great except a little "Tick" which sounds like a lifter. I adjusted the lifters 3 times. Still "Tick tick tick." I pulled the head and the sleeves seem tight. I cannot find any evidence of piston or valve interference on the head. I used sleeve lock tite when I put the new sleeves in just to make sure. I have no idea why the ticking but am about to throw the tractor in the lake. The manifold was plained and a new gasket installed. I am a very detailed person and took no short cuts with this engine. My favor has backfired and I am sick of the project. My friend doesn't want to sink a fortune in the engine either. I was just thinking a thick gasket might make extra sure of no contact. The sound is coming from the lifter area. (A machine shop recently did a valve job).

I think the cam can do that, maybe one of the others will have more detail than I can give.


As long as you set the head on with NO gasket, and made sure that the pistons did not hit the head that way, they do not hit with a gasket.

Here is what I did when I has that problem.
http://www.theviperr.info/hobo_dnn/Default.aspx?tabid=124

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 15:52:16 04/24/10)

(quoted from post at 15:40:16 04/24/10) Long story......

Working on a firend's 9N as a favor. I got into the engine and found a cobbled up disaster from a prior overhaul. Anyway due to some pitting, the block and head had been very lightly plained. I checked the head to piston clearance and the piston lightly kissed the head without a gasket. I touched up the head and solved the problem. I then put the head and new gasket on. The engine starts and runs great except a little "Tick" which sounds like a lifter. I adjusted the lifters 3 times. Still "Tick tick tick." I pulled the head and the sleeves seem tight. I cannot find any evidence of piston or valve interference on the head. I used sleeve lock tite when I put the new sleeves in just to make sure. I have no idea why the ticking but am about to throw the tractor in the lake. The manifold was plained and a new gasket installed. I am a very detailed person and took no short cuts with this engine. My favor has backfired and I am sick of the project. My friend doesn't want to sink a fortune in the engine either. I was just thinking a thick gasket might make extra sure of no contact. The sound is coming from the lifter area. (A machine shop recently did a valve job).

I think the cam can do that, maybe one of the others will have more detail than I can give.

See this topic.
http://ytforums.ytmag.com/viewtopic.php?t=359967

Here is the pic missing from that page.

 

[Hobo,NC]

(quoted from post at 20:40:16 04/24/10) Long story......

Working on a firend's 9N as a favor. I got into the engine and found a cobbled up disaster from a prior overhaul. Anyway due to some pitting, the block and head had been very lightly plained. I checked the head to piston clearance and the piston lightly kissed the head without a gasket. I touched up the head and solved the problem. I then put the head and new gasket on. The engine starts and runs great except a little "Tick" which sounds like a lifter. I adjusted the lifters 3 times. Still "Tick tick tick." I pulled the head and the sleeves seem tight. I cannot find any evidence of piston or valve interference on the head. I used sleeve lock tite when I put the new sleeves in just to make sure. I have no idea why the ticking but am about to throw the tractor in the lake. The manifold was plained and a new gasket installed. I am a very detailed person and took no short cuts with this engine. My favor has backfired and I am sick of the project. My friend doesn't want to sink a fortune in the engine either. I was just thinking a thick gasket might make extra sure of no contact. The sound is coming from the lifter area. (A machine shop recently did a valve job).

You can run the engine with the lifter cover off,,, use a feeler gauge tween the lifter and valve to fine the noise (if it is a to loose adjustment) then snug it up till the tic goes away,,, if the adjuster is worn it will be hard to nail the valve adjustment,,, if its a zaust leak use a rubber hose one end up to yer ear and use the other to go around the manifold to pin point the leak,,, I would think if you removed the head you would see if its a piston/head interference problem,,, dunk has a how to on it and later on I will try and add my take on it. Its close to his cept I go overkill as usual

http://www.theviperr.info/hobo_dnn/Default.aspx?tabid=124

 

[Anonymous-0]

There was not a camshaft thrust spring. The cam gear bolted directly to the cam and did not hit the block. The groove on the cam where the distributor teeth match was worn. I wonder if that could cause a tick?

I did find that somebody had put a long bolt in the top governor hole and chewed up the end of the cam gear. They also interchanged and mixed rods and caps from another engine. There was a lot of machine shop work in this engine. We had to align bore the crank/block because the oil pump was once replaced and caused the crank to bind. My friend finally said lets get it together. It was his grandfathers tractor and that is why he wanted it rebuilt.

 

[Greybeard - PA]

Might yer noise be a wrist pin bushing that was overlooked in the original overhaul? I've seen some good men get bitten by that one - easy to overlook. If that's what you have, should be able to short out and kill the noise, jusgt like a nasty rod bearing, JMHO.

Good Luck. Post back and let us know what you find.

Dave Erb
New Holland, PA

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 16:25:16 04/24/10) There was not a camshaft thrust spring. The cam gear bolted directly to the cam and did not hit the block. The groove on the cam where the distributor teeth match was worn. I wonder if that could cause a tick?

I did find that somebody had put a long bolt in the top governor hole and chewed up the end of the cam gear. They also interchanged and mixed rods and caps from another engine. There was a lot of machine shop work in this engine. We had to align bore the crank/block because the oil pump was once replaced and caused the crank to bind. My friend finally said lets get it together. It was his grandfathers tractor and that is why he wanted it rebuilt.

Here is what I think, as to why the cam would make the noise, the guys can correct me if I am wrong.

The teeth on the cam gear are tapered, and normal rotation of the crank pushes the cam to the block.

When at one (or more) point in the cam turning cycle, the valve springs, pushing on the lifters, turn the cam a bit faster than the crank, causing the teeth to push the cam toward the front cover.

Maybe that made some sense.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Well, you all have me thinking. I hope it is something simple. The engine has new pistons, rod/main bearings and the rods were replaced and reconditioned. The ticking could be the nuts and bolts rolling in my head for taking on such a project. Ha!

 

[G6 at Snook, TX]

(quoted from post at 20:47:23 04/24/10)
For what it's worth, my 9N has been makin' a ticking sound for 10 years. I thought they were just that way

My 8ns have done that tick tick tick sound as well. And for a long time too. I assume that it is a too loose adjuster. All things otherwise being right. Anyhow, Two questions: one, can I leave the girl alone and let sleeping dogs lie because there is no lose of power or any other issue with those tractors. Two, if I need to get the adjustment tightened up, where can I get one of those feeler gauges, or is it the same feeler gauge I would use on a spark plug or points? 2B, Is this laid out in the manual?

Thanks, I have wondered about it (the ticking) before, but never enough to stick my snout in there to find out, fix, or fix until broken.

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 19:04:47 04/24/10)

(quoted from post at 20:47:23 04/24/10)
For what it's worth, my 9N has been makin' a ticking sound for 10 years. I thought they were just that way

My 8ns have done that tick tick tick sound as well. And for a long time too. I assume that it is a too loose adjuster. All things otherwise being right. Anyhow, Two questions: one, can I leave the girl alone and let sleeping dogs lie because there is no lose of power or any other issue with those tractors. Two, if I need to get the adjustment tightened up, where can I get one of those feeler gauges, or is it the same feeler gauge I would use on a spark plug or points? 2B, Is this laid out in the manual?

Thanks, I have wondered about it (the ticking) before, but never enough to stick my snout in there to find out, fix, or fix until broken.

If it does what you want, when you want, I would use it.

I don't have a problem with "sound" ticks.

I don't like those crawling ticks though.

I have already found 2 crawling on me this year, and gave them the bic lighter treatment.

 

[Joe Ferguson]

Many years ago my MF-135 began to thick..tick
it was like a loose valve tappet tick...tick.

One night my son started the tractor to return it in the shed I saw a repeated spark near a spark plug. It was a damaged plug wire sparking probably chewed by the cows. We replaced plug wires and no more tick tick.

My little tick...tick story.


Joe ferguson

 

[Hobo,NC]

When a N engine is rite they are extremely quite,,, one mistake that's made is when the valves are worked on folks do not resurface the tapped adjusting screw head,,, not doing this leaves the valves to loose cuzz theirs no way to nail the adjustment.

One thing to look at is the adjuster height,,, if theirs little adjustment left then the seats are more than likely shot

A pix of a resurfaced adjuster screw and one that needs resurfacing,,, with the wear on the one on the left you will get a false feel on the feeler gauge

to dress the adjuster I chuck it up on the stem side of the valve grinder

[/img]

You can run the engine with the covers off,,, run a .005 feeler gauge tween the valve stem and adjuster engine run'n,,, if it eliminates the tick then just tighten the adjuster a tad.

WARNING all I know I read on the Internet,,, do it enuff and you can become a guru also,,, not responsible for damages,,, I read it and just pass it along,,, proceed with caution

 

[Hobo,NC]

When I build a N engine it gets decked

and check for piston to head interference,,, when you deck the block you can run into were the outer part of the piston also hits the head

[/img]

I lay a head gasket on the head and mark out the inside of the gasket firing ring then use a cut off wheel to relieve this area and stay off my mark,,, I have had a few I had to go into the mark

[/img]

Then grind out the chamber

[/img]

Recheck and polish

For the weak of heart you can buy a head thats already been relieved



WARNING all I know I read on the Internet,,, do it enuff and you can become a guru also,,, not responsible for damages,,, I read it and just pass it along,,, proceed with caution[/img]

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 21:49:19 04/24/10)
When a N engine is rite they are extremely quite,,, one mistake that's made is when the valves are worked on folks do not resurface the tapped adjusting screw head,,, not doing this leaves the valves to loose cuzz theirs no way to nail the adjustment.

One thing to look at is the adjuster height,,, if theirs little adjustment left then the seats are more than likely shot

A pix of a resurfaced adjuster screw and one that needs resurfacing,,, with the wear on the one on the left you will get a false feel on the feeler gauge to dress the adjuster I chuck it up on the stem side of the valve grinder

You can run the engine with the covers off,,, run a .005 feeler gauge tween the valve stem and adjuster engine run'n,,, if it eliminates the tick then just tighten the adjuster a tad.

In NO way is Hobo wrong!!!

There is just no real reason to go to this N'th degree of RIGHT.

It is a waste of money and time.

The things will run, and work their arses off, for decades, nearly right, with a few (sound) ticks.

These engines are very forgiving!!!!!

Now if one was building a 13:1 396 Chevy, things might be worth some particulars.

But NOT N engines.....

 

[John (TR)]

Hobo is right, 60 years of screwdrivers popping head off is hard on them, had my last one decked and the pistons hit the head even without the head being shaved. removed excess with sanding drum untill no hit without gasket. Sounds like the valves need rechecked.

 

[Dunk]

(quoted from post at 19:44:08 04/26/10) Hobo is right, 60 years of screwdrivers popping head off is hard on them, had my last one decked and the pistons hit the head even without the head being shaved. removed excess with sanding drum untill no hit without gasket. Sounds like the valves need rechecked.

I've never had my block decked.

But I am the first one that posted a "how to" on the heads.

It appears that you missed having your head surfaced.

How To:
http://www.theviperr.info/hobo_dnn/Default.aspx?tabid=124

I have had my manifold surfaced too.

 

[John (TR)]

Head was flat, have a Granite flat table at work for checking parts, was no need to plane the head but the top of the motor was all nicked up

 

[MO8N4ME]

(quoted from post at 10:30:56 04/25/10)

(quoted from post at 21:49:19 04/24/10)
When a N engine is rite they are extremely quite,,, one mistake that's made is when the valves are worked on folks do not resurface the tapped adjusting screw head,,, not doing this leaves the valves to loose cuzz theirs no way to nail the adjustment.

One thing to look at is the adjuster height,,, if theirs little adjustment left then the seats are more than likely shot

A pix of a resurfaced adjuster screw and one that needs resurfacing,,, with the wear on the one on the left you will get a false feel on the feeler gauge to dress the adjuster I chuck it up on the stem side of the valve grinder

You can run the engine with the covers off,,, run a .005 feeler gauge tween the valve stem and adjuster engine run'n,,, if it eliminates the tick then just tighten the adjuster a tad.

In NO way is Hobo wrong!!!

There is just no real reason to go to this N'th degree of RIGHT.

It is a waste of money and time.

The things will run, and work their arses off, for decades, nearly right, with a few (sound) ticks.

These engines are very forgiving!!!!!

Now if one was building a 13:1 396 Chevy, things might be worth some particulars.

But NOT N engines.....

Why, pray tell, would anyone what to build a 13:1 396 Chevy :?: :?: :lol: :lol: :lol:......ah, oh, is this a no, no?