Farmall M

[mhankc]

What HP range would I reach if I were to have a M with the stepped head pistons, a 450 cam, shave down the head/open up exhaust, and a little carb/governor work. I am also fishing for any other tips, however stroking it is not in the budget. Thanks

 

[Anonymous-0]

4.125 bore/LP Head with cleaned ports, good manifold/MSD Box about 58 hp to 62 hp. Some will say more but this is what I found.

 

[High Octane]

(quoted from post at 06:20:34 12/20/07) 4.125 bore/LP Head with cleaned ports, good manifold/MSD Box about 58 hp to 62 hp. Some will say more but this is what I found.

62 hp out of a 281ci with a LP head? Did it have flat top pistons and a M cam in it? Was it in a M or newer tractor?? Seen Super M's with the typical 281 rebuild kits with lp heads make 75 on high octane fuel. Now days, we see em, 70-72 hp, with a 8060 head, 450 cam, and 4.125 bore on 87 octane pump gas at rated pto rpm. That's in a M chassis, not a 400-450 chassis.

Id like to see an original M&W stroker/pistons,for a 264-281 with all the trimmings on the dyno. Legend has it, they were 80-85.

 

[Pullerboy624]

Put a 450 head on it with big vavels and mill it. also change the manifolds to a cold air intake manifold.

 

[BigRed400]

PLEASE EXPLAIN COLD AIR INTAKE MANIFOLD

 

[Anonymous-0]

I have an M fixed with 4 1/4 M&W pistons, reground cam, 450 gas head, rocket govenor, L.P. intake and exhaust, head has been milled as far as you dare to go and it has 73 horse. Stock stroke. It has the Super W-6 ring and pinion in it. It pulls 5500lb in Div 2 and never runs out of power.

 

[RichH]

4.25 bore,M&W pistons, top grove in block filled in with homemade ring, Berry Cam ground cam, bored 450 style cold manifold, higher grade IH governor set at stock rpm, bored same size as manifold upper carb body with #33 venturi with jets only slightly drilled out, lower carb body from 706, 450 gas head plained only .020 and ports only cleaned up and the dyno operator stopped at 75 hp. I have only run out of power once and that was in a hobby stock class that I pulled in third gear. Most of the time I throtle back to maintain traction. Low end torque to no end down to the last rpm.

 

[AW Puller]

WHY OH WHY do you still think what chassis the engine is mounted in has anything to do with how much power it makes? HP=HP whether it be in a plain M, SM or 450.

 

[Pullerboy624]

Sorry that was a typo i meant to say change the moanifold and put a diffrent air intake on it.

 

[High Octane]

(quoted from post at 17:13:41 12/20/07) WHY OH WHY do you still think what chassis the engine is mounted in has anything to do with how much power it makes? HP=HP whether it be in a plain M, SM or 450.

The pto gear ratios are not the same betwen the M and the 400-450. 400-450 engine speed is faster than the M, so they slowed the pto speed down in the 400-450. In a 400-450 chassis, the hp on a pto dyno will show it to be 3-5 hp less, than the exact same engine in a M chassis. Do the math on the rated rpm on each make and model.

 

[AW Puller]

So take for example an IH-1066, with both 540 AND 1000 PTO speeds. Do you think the same tractor will dyno differently (other than small frictional differences) between the 540 shaft and the 1000?

In any gear system, HP in=HP out (minus friction). SO THAT MEANS than engine horsepower entering the transmission=horsepower out the PTO (minus friction) NO MATTER what the gear ratio is.

 

[High Octane]

1066 dyno off the 540 side? Dont know of many doing that, I belive thats why its on 1000,,, Prime example, and Im gonna leave it at this,,,

take a C 301 engine,, put it in a 560 chassis, dyno it at 540, then take that same engine, drop it into a 806,,,, then come back and tell me that the are the same HP ratings. M and the 400-450,, same result,,, same engine, different HP, cause its read at different rpm.

 

[Anonymous-0]

If you rate the engine by crankshaft speed it does not matter what it is hooked to. If you rate it at PTO speed it matters what the PTO gearing is, the engine speed will necessarily be different if the PTO gearing is different and thus produce a different HP. In your 1066 example, the PTO gear ratios have been selected to give those PTO rpm's at the same crankshaft rpm. If you drop that engine into a different chassis with different PTO gearing and then rate it at 540 or 1000 PTO speed, you will measure different HP numbers. If you then run the engine at the same crankshaft speed as the original 1066 chassis you will see that the PTO speed will be different, but the measured HP should be the same.

 

[Mike N Mo]

Were the M/Super M rated at different PTO RPM than the 400/450 series? The reason I ask is that the Nebraska test data (at least in the publiciation I have) shows that all have a 1450 RPM rated engine speed. I understand that the gear train will be different due to the live PTO on the 400/450, but I also assumed that the tests were done at 540 PTO rpm. My book just has a summary of the test, not the complete results. Could you claify this? Thanks, Mike

 

[Superih]

M-SM-400-450 all have the same constant mesh ratio of 2.7. This is also the ratio of the PTO shaft speed to engine crankshaft speed.

1600 rpm = 592 PTO
1760 rpm = 651 PTO

 

[MJF]

I expected more than that, my M had 4" firecrater pistons, an old all-fuel head that the valves were shot, stock points, and a junk manifold dyno 48hp. And that had a broken ring that wore a groove in the sleeve. 100-110 psi in the cylinders. every bearing was shot in the motor and the crank had to be turned .020 and .030 to get it out. and a thrown togather carb from the local salvage. hmm

 

[james rumph]

I have been pulling a Super M with a 281 kit factory stock cam and a well done 450 gas head and 450 L.P manifold on race fuel. With the timing turned up and it is making 72 hp on the dyno at rated rpm.