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Fighting Developers

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Stumpalump

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Does anything work when you are trying to get commisioners to scale back developments? The land went from AG to rural or 1 house on 17.5 acers to now a proposed subdivition of huge mansion like homes on 3 acer lots because they will keep the waste land as open space. Still works out to 1 house for every 8 acers. We have little water and the land they will destroy should have been a park it's so nice. What works when you voice your concerns to the comissioners? What do they need to hear that will make them scale back?
 
Should have been active on first rezoning, unfortunately developers are going to sell the powers on MORE taxable big homes and we are all going to be out in the cold AGAIN. Money talks, they can't give you more services without taxes, and they sure won't try to balance their budget like we have to.
 
Stumpalump;

Not sure if anything will work. It seems developers get what they are after. Well,not always.
A developer was after some land he wanted to build on.County turned him down first time and he turned right around and tried again. Alot of folks thought the first time was the end of it and next thing they knew houses were going up.
They are a sneaky bunch.

steveormary
 
"What do they need to hear that will make them scale back?"

Force of arms. The only thing government understands is force.

“Government is not reason. Government is not eloquence. It is force. And, like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.” George Washington
 
nothing since the land will now bring many more dollars in property taxes as a R-1 zoning rather thag ag or farm land .
 
Who bought and paid for the land they are building the houses on? Private property rights are guaranteed in the US Constitution. How many acres do you live on? Amazing to me how so many people want to tell somone else what to do with something the other person bought and paid for.
 
If the land is pretty and you want it to stay that way you need to buy it then and only then can you control it. If someone else buys it they can do what ever it is zoned for.
 
Neighbors putup 40a across the road. Poor to mediocre land at best - A HUNDRED FIVE THOUSAND!
won't be bidding on that soon.
 
Maybe some common sense. Where are the people that buy these houses going to work to pay for them? If your answer is "not here" then the question is "how far away?" and "does that make sense?". Another question is where are the utilities coming from? Usually the town or county has to provide them and will probably have to increase the size. Ask the commsioners to have the developer pay to increase the size of the sewage treatment plant, to widen the roads and put in traffic lights. If you have a water supply plant ask the developer to pay to improve it and if wells are to be used talk about maintanence of the water table.
In the small town where my farm is the developer came in and wanted to build one house per acre. Kept asking those questions and now the number of houses in the total development keeps going down.
 
not much you can do now,developer is just another word for con artist or theif, ive watched our county get ruined completly in the last 15 years, out of state developers spend about 5 years getting their people voted onto the county commission and city councel, now everything they want gets approved even if it violates most of the codes, the town near here has the recources to support around 2500 people currently 75oo live there full time and the summer crowd swells to over 50,000 they have very little water now, the sewer and water systems are hoplessly overmatched, still the build, the game is to put up a house for 75 to 100 grand cost then sell it for 400 to 450, sitting on 2 to 5 acres, the land wont support a goat, but currently freshly retired people from california and texas come here and think they are getting a good deal, i dont know why, because as a lifelong residenti can tell ya, theyre getting ripped off badly, these developers then gather up all the money and haull a$$ back to where theyre from leaving a basicly poor comunity to deal with all the houses condos, and other messes they have built, only thing that i can see to stop them is a wildfire, all i can say to everybody now is in your local elections, KNOW WHO THE PEOPLE ARE THAT YOU VOTE IN, AND WHAT THEYRE AGENDA IS, IF THEY ARE NEWBIES[ LIVED THERE LESS THAN 5 YEARS], BE VERY SUSPICIOUS, AND DONT LET THEM RUN YOUR COUNTY!!! a lesson learned to late here
 
Good luck. All you can do is go there with facts about you local housing market, foreclosures, and some factual data that houses dont really creatw the revenue they think. You need to make a show of force with all those thaT oppose, and each and everyone of you must get up and passionatly voice your opinion. I tried to fight it last year. My name is mud with a few on the zoning board, commissioners, and the developer family, but I had to stand my ground and stick with my beliefs. Only one neighbor had tha nads to do the same, and SHE, yes she did good as well. It went through, when some board memebrs and commisioner just about jump out of their pants to get to the 1st break and shake hands with the developer, it pretty much foreshadowed the outcome. That house is still sitting there empty, with out an offer. looks kinda silly,corn at $6 and there sits a $649,000 executive house in the middle of farm country on the most productive peice of soil in the surrounding 200 acres. The other lots that had been plated and they had planned on putting up houses was tilled at the last minute and put into spring wheat.
 
In Northern Va, this is all about the money. Developers can do more with the land than the current owners because they grease the wheels of the zoning boards. A farmer may fight a year to put a home for his son on a 5 acre parcel- quit out of frustration and sell to a developer, and a year later you'll see 5 houses on the same peice of dirt.
They'll offer a few infrastucture improvements ( some curbs, some sidewalks, a turn lane into the little subdivision) but what they really offer is 20 or 30 grand per house to the county that will get built into the price of the homes- 100 grand or more that the farmer would never be able to come up with ( nor should have to!)

It's all karma, though- their sitting on an 18 month inventory of homes right now, losing their shirts.
 
There is no magic bullet. A group of us has been fighting this locally for 3 years. The more people involved, the better. Numbers of protestors mean a lot. Go to local government meeting and be vocal. You do not need to be a polished speaker, but have pertinent facts at hand. Read plans that others have for you and looks for specific areas to attack. Use their words against them. By going to the meetings, you will place comments on the record that would have never seen the light of day, and more people will know what is going on. Remind them that you as a taxpayer that taxpayers of your area should not provide corporate welfare and fund their wishes and that elected folks are supposed to represent all. Try to label them as representing only special interests. They do not like that. If you know estimated cost of infrastructure that will be required, that will be helpful. Study environmental regulations and use them to your benefit. If you can slow the process and make it cost more, it will turn off some support. You can suggest that you would support it with certain provisions, all with the intention of complicating things for the developer. It takes dedication and a lot of time. You and your neighbors have to decide if your lifestyle is worth fighting for and just do it. It is easy to grow tired and go away. That is what the other side will want you to do.
 
Amazing how difrent parts of the country see things. We fought HARD here to prevent ruar zoning. As land OWNERS we want the ringt ( and yes Development) to do as we please with land we
own. That,s supposed to be the way it is and not some tree huger telling you you can,t do what you want with your land.
 
You're not hurting the developers just the people
that buy the houses from them as the developers will just pass the costs on in the price of the houses.Facts are US population is increasing and the people have to live somewhere.
 
You Are right about increasing the costs. If the market will not bear the higher costs and the economy will not support the investment required, a project will be delayed or better yet, abandonded. The vacancy rate around here is running 15 to 20 percent, and they keep building. In a newspaper article today, a developer said they were over-built for current conditions, but plans are to keep building. It makes sense only if speculation is the only game in town.
 
..to fight developers is to start raising pigs or spread lots of manure next to the development. OR you could build an ethanol plant;-) on land next to it. The market will fight developers, POLITICS will fight commissioners, either way, it's all about $$$.
 
What works when talking to comissioners. Generally, the bigger hammer wins. If it's you and a neighbor trying to fight a well heeled developer, you're going to lose and make enemies.

Decide how well you can handle the enemies you make. And I'm not talking merely of the developer, though they can be remarkably nasty. Fire departments that no longer can find your address, police that refuse to respond to 911 calls, paramedics that sit in the road refusing to come up, zoning inspectors showing up almost daily to investigate anonomous complaints, etc.

Sometimes it's best to sell out and leave paradise. Stinks, but look at your alternatives.
 

Beware of Carpetbaggers, which are the advance vangard of the developer.
If they can't buy a parcel of land theirselves, they will pay a "nice young couple" to do it for them...
Nothing they tell you and nothing they put on paper is worth a thing in a court of Law.. The land will change hands so many times that anything you may agree to (in writing) is never passed on to the next purchaser..(Home builder, etc.)
Those carpetbaggers are Professionals and as such are VERY believable, Lie for a living and have NO attachment to your community..
And, being an "OWNER" does NOT make you a good custodian of the LAND..sounds like you are of the same mind as a develloper.certainly not that of a Farmer (and a Farmer is Certainly NOT a tree-hugger).
$105,ooo for 40..?? Land is easily $60,000+ per acre here in central Ohio...
The 1st to sell around here sold for 2,000 to 2,500/acre most were 2nd and 3rd generation family tracts..those people got Raped..
The commissioners here are totally Bought and pocketed by the developers..in a public forum at the High School, they refused to have any discussion without breaking up the people into 10 groups (divide & conquer), so no public outcry could be rallied...told us (the commissioners) that Sawmill Rd would NOT be develloper-driven, and 2 days later it came out in the newspaper that the developers WOULD be putting Sawmill Rd in..a Bold-Faced Lie to the public..
Good Luck, BTDT...
 
Three things:
Even though they indicate the leaving of the nice area, the effect of the new homes will change the runoff, drainage, and use impact of the land. A professional level Environmental Impact statement, including an analysis detailed enough to assure there are no endangered species native to the pristine wetlands you indicate are on that property, can cost more than the property's value, and delay action. make sure it is in place!
A comprehensive plan for the development of a "replacement wetland" must be in place with specific geologic information on sustainability of the "new wetland", and the adaptability of the species living on the developed land to the new "wetland".
In these extreme housing market times questioning the validity of the potential for the sale of these homes is appropriate. Far too many of these Pseudo mansions are being built and then foreclosed on.

The environmental card is powerful, and and good tactics. land owners willing to degrade these incredible acres for extreme profit are not good stewards of the earth. Good luck. JimN
 
"You're not hurting the developers just the people that buy the houses from them as the developers will just pass the costs on in the price of the houses."


Not to mention hurting the FARMER that's finally getting his big retirement payoff by selling his land.
 
I lost $130,000 to some people just like you who thought that they new better as to how to control my land than I did. Some day when they want something I will be the first to go after them.
BUMMER.
Walt
 
Dicey subject. As others have said, property rights are inherent in our system of government. Just because a neighbor doesn't want a sub next door, that doesn't mean it's right to trample on the owner's property rights. One thing to check is the Master Plan (if they have one) of the local government unit. It will show the future "development" direction for the area. This means that if a developer wants to put a factory in an area that is currently zoned rural, it will be hard to stop if the Master Plan calls for it to be industrial, for example. The zoning change would probably go through and if it doesn't on the first try, the developer will probably win in court. I've seen many of these fights here in Southeast Michigan. We've had 2 or 3 instances in our township alone recently where golf courses have been turned into shopping centers and subdivisions. The neighbors howled like crazy. (Imagine paying a premium for a lot that backed up to a beautiful country club and then end up looking at the back of a Walmart or a condo.) Guess what? The golf courses are gone.

I've got neighbors that didn't like the idea of me buying a beautiful piece of property and asking them to not use it as their personal recreation area. They said the previous owners let them ride their ATVs all over it. I told them if they liked it so much, they should have bought it themselves.

Anyway, if the master plan and zoning allow it, not much you can do. Look on the bright side. A sub of big dollar houses on 8 acres nearby probably won't hurt YOUR property values. It could be a landfill. Now THAT would sure hurt them. :(
 
Never forget my grade-school principal telling (short version) about a man who was so happy about becoming a naturalized citizen that he went into the streets, dancing and shouting and flinging his arms. One of his arms hit a by-stander in the nose, bloodying it; fellow told him, "Your freedom ends where my nose begins". Have never understood the need to control someone else's property, as in, "They're cutting down all 'our' trees". What they're doing is cutting down 'their' trees, or developing 'their' property.
 
(quoted from post at 06:18:49 05/01/08) You're not hurting the developers just the people
that buy the houses from them as the developers will just pass the costs on in the price of the houses.Facts are US population is increasing and the people have to live somewhere.
Click to expand...

Uhhhhhh ........ maybe some of those buyers should step and grab some of the 10s of thousands of homes currently under foreclosure ...... why build more when the people can't afford what they've got now? :roll: The new houses that the developers are STILL building are only going to cost more than units on the 'previously owned' market ...... Right? :?
 
(quoted from post at 12:32:00 05/01/08) should step and grab some of the 10s of thousands of homes currently under foreclosure ...... why build more when the people can't afford what they've got now? :roll: The new houses that the developers are STILL building are only going to cost more than units on the 'previously owned' market ...... Right? :?
Click to expand...

mj, People looking right now are "bottom feeders". It's a buyer's market for both existing AND new home sales. Many ARE taking advantage of the glut of foreclosed homes and new homes that developers need to unload.


As to "why build more when the people can't afford what they've got now", some people just want a brand new house built to their specs. And if they're able and willing in today's economy to do it, god bless them. Remember that developers build homes and in the process employ carpenters, electricians, support wood mills, loggers in the NW, refrigerator makers, etc. That's the nature of our economy. It may not make the most sense to you or me, but it's their choice.

Right now, we're all putting more and more of our available income into the gas tank and on the table. Most of us are trying to just hang on and ride out this recession. Not many people that I know are thinking about going out on a limb with a brand new home and new mortgage.
 
Funny I still thought this is the United States of America with private property rights and the individual gets to decides for themselves what they will spend the money they made on not have some 'Committe of Comrades' decide for them.Do you fellows also decide what brand car your neighbor drives?What flavor ice cream they eat?
Do you want someone to decide for YOU how to spend YOUR money?
 

Traditional Farmer is exactly 100% correct. If you own land you are entitled to sell it. If you buy land you are entitled to build on it or divide it up and sell it again. Property rights are precious - but that means you have rights over your own property, not your neighbors.
 
(quoted from post at 11:01:06 05/01/08)
(quoted from post at 12:32:00 05/01/08) should step and grab some of the 10s of thousands of homes currently under foreclosure ...... why build more when the people can't afford what they've got now? :roll: The new houses that the developers are STILL building are only going to cost more than units on the 'previously owned' market ...... Right? :?
Click to expand...

mj, People looking right now are "bottom feeders". It's a buyer's market for both existing AND new home sales. Many ARE taking advantage of the glut of foreclosed homes and new homes that developers need to unload.


As to "why build more when the people can't afford what they've got now", some people just want a brand new house built to their specs. And if they're able and willing in today's economy to do it, god bless them. Remember that developers build homes and in the process employ carpenters, electricians, support wood mills, loggers in the NW, refrigerator makers, etc. That's the nature of our economy. It may not make the most sense to you or me, but it's their choice.

Right now, we're all putting more and more of our available income into the gas tank and on the table. Most of us are trying to just hang on and ride out this recession. Not many people that I know are thinking about going out on a limb with a brand new home and new mortgage.
Click to expand...

Well .... I agree with what you're saying ..... it just hacks me off off when I see condos in hayfields and cul-de-sacs where a barn used to be .... wish they could all wait to 'legislate prosperity' into the country until I'm gone .... worse yet, I can feel myself slipping slowly into codger-hood :roll:
 
2 years ago we threw out one of three pro development commissioners. Next week we throw out another one.

Last year the commissioners, along with a developer group from the county seat (on the Ohio river) and some advisors from Indianapolis wanted to put an industrial park in the North end of the county that is zoned Agricultural. They had no idea what they were messing with.

The advisors are gone, the developer group has a new head and is talking real nice, and a commissioner will probably lose in next weeks primary. The people who live there like it the way it is, and really turned out at meetings. The people took back the county.
 
Late reply since I have insomonia...

>nothing since the land will now bring many more
>dollars in property taxes as a R-1 zoning
>rather thag ag or farm land .

Around here, you lose money on residential and commercial development. Cost of services exceed the tax revenue.

$8,000 a kid...need a $450,000 home to cover the cost of a one kid family around here without raising everyone else's taxes up.

Next town over has a Lowes / Target shopping center going in. Already hired a 5th Resident State Trooper (they don't have a local PD) at a cost of $95,000 just in anticipation of the extra calls for bad checks and shoplifters. Commercial buildings and improvements depreciate in value so their taxes paid go down; Trooper costs go up by 3% a year. Maybe 1/2 the taxes paid by the shopping center are a "net" gain for the town next year over expenses...20 years from now, the town will be paying more to support them then they collect.

The two towns in my area that added the most residents over the last 15 years -- both went from 5,000-something to 8,000-something...and that was enough to tip the volunteer ambulance over the breaking point during the day. $150,000 for each town each year to provide paid daytime EMTs.

Manufacturing, Utilities, and undeveloped land are the only things that have a positive impact on taxes around here.

Not that I like onerous zoning -- I'd rather see towns buy the land outright to control it. But development has a real and significant fiscal impact on everyone. At least 1/3rd of what I pay in property taxes today is attributable to population growth in my town over the last two decades...if we didn't have those houses, we wouldn't be spending that money.
 
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