Fire caused by battery charger

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There was discussion recently about battery charge maintainers and weather or not they are a fire danger. There was a house fire in a nearby town last Friday and today's paper states that it was found to have been started by a battery charger, (it didn't say how large) in use in the garage attached to the house, and that there were four motorcycles in the garage. I could see that if a battery went bad and the owner didn't know, that one of those little chargers would heat up trying to put a full charge into a battery that could not take it. Eventually the heat would break down the insulation of the winding, so it would probably be a good practice to check them fairly regularly. It appears to me that the ones with the red/green indicator light are probably good ones to have.

 

[Anonymous-0]

A few years ago I had started to charge a battery on the floor of my shop, I turned around to do something, and the small charger [10 amp] had flames shooting out of it. I can't remember the make , but Napa sold it. Luckily I was there. Dave

 

[dan mcdonald]

Had that happen about 15 years ago was charging my h outside just happen to look back and the charger was in flames.No damage to the tractor but sears charger was toast.After I put fire out I checked all leads and they were rite also charger was on 6volt.

 

[Michael Soldan]

I bought a charger a year ago called a "Smart Charger" This charger will not start if you have the terminals hooked up wrong, when correct terminals are connected it shows a red led that indicates it is on. You set the amps at 2,4 or6 and an led system tells you when the battery is quarter, half or fully charged, then when fully charged the system shuts down. I have used it several times and I have confidence in its safety...BUT...I would never leave a battery charger on more than the time I think it will take to charge the battery. A charger left on for 24 hours or more is asking for trouble,no matter what kind of charger it is

 

[IOWA NORTHEAST]

I have had two catch fire over the years. One was brand new, and was replaced. another was placed under the gas tank on a WD Allis, and I just happened to look out the window, and saw smoke, then flames. No harm done, but I never set a cahrger on anything but the groud, and as far away as possible from the tractor.

 

[Bob]

"but I never set a charger on anything but the ground, and as far away as possible from the tractor."


Exactly. I also set them on the ground/floor, if at all possible, or on a metal stand or barrel as far from anything flammable as possible... just in case!

 

[JML755]

(quoted from post at 12:55:27 01/11/11) I bought a charger a year ago called a "Smart Charger" This charger will not start if you have the terminals hooked up wrong, when correct terminals are connected it shows a red led that indicates it is on. You set the amps at 2,4 or6 and an led system tells you when the battery is quarter, half or fully charged, then when fully charged the system shuts down. I have used it several times and I have confidence in its safety...BUT...I would never leave a battery charger on more than the time I think it will take to charge the battery. A charger left on for 24 hours or more is asking for trouble,no matter what kind of charger it is

Yikes, this thread and your post reminded me that I hooked up my battery charger to one of my tractor batteries in the basement over the weekend. I forgot about it. Both are sitting on the cement floor.

It's an old Sears charger that has MANUAL and AUTOMATIC mode and AUTOMATIC is a trickle charge. I'm pretty sure it's on trickle charge, but I hope I don't see flames when I get home tonite. Should call home and leave a msg on the answering machine, reminding me to unplug it tonite.

 

[Organicfarmer1972]

Any way to trickle charge several batteries with one charger safely?

 

[36 Coupe]

I have posted many times about battery chargers causing fires.I have explained how a charger can fail and catch fire.I have gotten plenty of abuse from others on the forum who think battery chargers and maintainers are safe to use.Power tool chargers are starting many fires.

 

[KCTractors]

Yep! I had one do the same thing, the tractor was outside and I was just walking past it and I could not believe my eyes when I seen the flames coming from the charger. I thought that I did something wrong as far as hooking it up. Will the chargers do the same thing for the power tools? I have the chargers right on a wood work bench. I might have to change things.

 

[JDemaris]

As you already stated, you don't have the facts. It could of been a actual, part-time use battery charger capable of making a lot of heat and never meant to be left, turned-on for long periods of time.

The little 2 amp battery maintainers I posted info about are nothing like that. Seems every time this comes up, somebody starts moaning about chargers and little maintainers as if they are all the same.

Also note that neither battery chargers, or little maintainers START fires on their own, anymore guns shoot people on their own - or woodstoves burn houses down. They cause problems when not used properly, as do many other things in life.

 

[JDemaris]

Yeah, and didn't you do that when the post was actually about little 2 amp battery maintainers that are meant for full-time use? I have two models I'm using, and both are well fuse protected on the input and the output. You made sweeping statements as if every device out there is exactly the same.

 

[JDseller]

I have a good Schumacher battery charger it has a built in voltage regulator. I also take the cover off of it several times each year and blow out all of the dust. I would bet that the chargers that catch fire have never been cleaned. Good friend stores corn in the back of his machine shed/shop. I have had to clean the bees wings out of all of his electrical stuff several times. His battery charger smokes when it is full of dust. How many of you have cleaned out your chargers??? How about your welders??? All of these things have heavy coils that are air cooled. If they are plugged with dust/dirt then they will cause heat.

I still think that the best way to charge a dead or very low battery is on slow charge for an extended time. So you do yours how you want and I will charge mine how I want. If mine catches fire then it is on my shoulders. I will agree that it is not good to leave one on for weeks on end but I routinely charge over night. Plus if it is really cold and I know I need a piece of equipment to go. I will put the charger on the night before on low charge to keep the battery warmed up. This has worked for the first sixty years of my life. Might not the next sixty . LOL

 

[36 Coupe]

Ive seen melted wall warts.Ive added primary fuses to my chargers.It would cost 1 buck to fuse the primary at the mfg level but its never done.The big chargers can spit balls of hot aluminum when the cheap heat sinks melt.

 

[36 Coupe]

My son in law has 2 bad scorch marks on a hardwood floor from these chargers.Fellow I know left a charger plugged in in his shop, went back and saw flames comming out of the charger.I use them when Im in the shop otherwise they are unplugged.

 

[JDemaris]

As I said, a big charger had nothing to do with posts about 1.5 or 2 amp battery maintainers. They are designed for full-time hook-up and have full fuse-link protection on the input and output.

It would be virtually impossible to start a fire with one when used properly. In fact, the same can be said for some larger chargers also. If somebody has a charger and/or cord laying on flamable material, and leaves it on unattended . . . and a fire starts . . . it's a problem with the user.

 

[36 Coupe]

So you admit they will start fires.Look at tool crib .com.R Meserve said,a Ridgid dual charger with 1 18v lithium battery destroyed my barn and home in 30 minutes.Made in China,Would the chinese put a phoney UL label on the chargers?I read a post that said a Harley Davidson battery maintainer burned 2 tractors and a restored pick up truck.A friend put a charger on his tractor about 30 minutes later he saw smoke.The charger had 1 shorted diode, the transformer paper was burned black.This trans former did have a fuse buried in the winding,the fuse was open.The diodes are about the size of an asprin tablet and the heat sinks are sheet metal not aluminum as they should be.

 

[JML755]

(quoted from post at 03:45:55 01/12/11) .... I would bet that the chargers that catch fire have never been cleaned. Good friend stores corn in the back of his machine shed/shop. I have had to clean the bees wings out of all of his electrical stuff several times. His battery charger smokes when it is full of dust. How many of you have cleaned out your chargers??? How about your welders??? All of these things have heavy coils that are air cooled. If they are plugged with dust/dirt then they will cause heat.

The barn where I do occasional maintenance work has electric golf carts and one of the chargers (36v) wasn't working. It had been dropped/run over and looked like he**. It was kept on the dirt floor of a barn when in use. I took off the case and it was packed full of hay, sawdust, dirt, feathers, etc. Couldn't even see the transformer or circuit board. I figure that if there was ever a ripe situation for a fire, this was it. Cleaned it up and replaced the circuit board. Build a shelf in the barn to set it on when in use to get it off the floor.

Point is: I agree with you. It's a good practice to clean your equipment. I use an air gun to blow out my drills and other power tools occasionally.
BTW, went home and my charger was showing 0 Amps on AUTOMATIC while still hooked up to the tractor battery. Unplugged it and noticed that almost above the charger was a paper towel dispenser with a sheet of towel hanging down. Wouldn't take much of a flame to get that going.

And I agree with JDemaris' point that a properly designed maintainer that is current limited is pretty safe. I'd be very interested to hear post-mortems on all the chargers that cause fires as to what the failure mode was (loose wire connection?, component failure?) It is in a company's best interest nowadays to do FMEA (Failure Mode Effect Analysis) on their products to avoid the lawsuits and recalls that come with a poorly designed unit.

 

[36 Coupe]

Do a search on battery maintainer fires.I found many fire trucks and ambulances have been lost to maintainer fires. the info is there.

 

[JDemaris]

Are we not speaking the same language? No, I never said the small battery maintainer can start fires. Are you trying to put words in my mouth, to somehow support your own claims?

I have noted repeatedly that there is a huge difference between a high amp battery "charger", and a low-amp battery maintainer. Yet, you persist in treating them as if they are the same thing.

 

[JML755]

(quoted from post at 12:56:13 01/12/11) Do a search on battery maintainer fires.I found many fire trucks and ambulances have been lost to maintainer fires. the info is there.

OK, I took your suggestion and did a google search on "battery maintainer fires" and in 20 pages found 2 instances of fire trucks burning up. One just said it was plugged into a maintainer, did not specifically list the maintainer as the cause. The other did say the Fire Inspector stated the cause to be the maintainer. But considering the Fire Inspector works for the Fire Dept that just lost a valuable asset to a FIRE, I would question the objectiveness of this. MIGHT be a conflict of interest there. ("Uh, Joe left a cigarette burning in ash tray in violation of policy. Let's find another cause") One article talked about a garage full of cars that went up in smoke with the statement that it was the maintainer but it "couldn't be proven" because everything was incinerated. I've watched fire investigators work a scene and it's pretty impressive how they follow patterns and evidence to pinpoint the starting point of a fire. This then will usually point to a cause in that area so any hesitation on blaming a maintainer says a lot. Like in the other cases, this might be "aha! there's a maintainer here, must be the cause! Let's go get lunch!"

I expected to see article after article of your "many fire trucks and ambulances" but got tired of scrolling through google hits and mostly seeing talk of these things FAILING by simply not providing a charge of any kind. Not trying to start a "forum war", just thought I'd check for this mountain of evidence on maintainer fires.

 

[JDemaris]

The BS constantly flies on these forums. How many newspaper stories have there been e.g. a "car kills a pedestrian", or "somebody killed by a gun", or "SUV rolls over."

One might think cars, SUVs, and guns go out and kill people, all on their own.

How about the very common "wiring causes house fire." OK. Does that mean that nobody should have wiring in their house? No. It means somebody had "faulty wiring", or "damaged wiring."

Same goes with just about any electric appliance. If it gets mis-used, and fire starts - the fault is the mis-use -and NOT the appliance.

Now, snow me even one verified event where a battery maintainer I specifically mentioned, made for full-time use, was properly used and somehow caused a fire. You will not find such an event.

When this discussion was first promulgaged by me, it was about two specific model # battery maintainers and nothing else. I was very specific. Yet, the many doomsayers keep jumping with rediculous hype, mis-facts, anecdotal stories, and broad-sweeping statements.

Here's one new one I took apart after one of the posters here claimed there was no fuse protection on the input. This 2 amp maintainer has a 5 amp fusible link on the input and the output. it also states in the instructions not to have the cord, or device on a flamable surface or mounted next to a battery. Also says not to use if cord is damaged.

So tell me. If some idiot mounts this maintainer on oil-soaked carboard, perhaps with a damaged cord, and a fire starts - and his barn burns down. How will it be reported? Especially when the owner might want to collect insurance?

And yeah, one posted mentioned a fire-hazzard if lightning strikes when the maintainer is plugged in.

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[Todd Heck]

I work for a company that cleans up after fires. I did one this summer which was caused by a guy that was charging a battery on his car in the garage. The charge was the cause of the fire. It somehow over charged or sparked and set the garage on fire. He was an idiot because he left the charge on then left for the night. He also had a New Harley that was a total loss. These people are not hurting for money so it is not like they needed the insurance claim.

 

[36 Coupe]

Fusible link in China generally means 2 strands of wire pulled out of some zip cord.The more parts you put on a circuit board the more failures you will have.The one pictured didnt come from Harbor Fright.A lightning strike on the power line will roast that board.

 

[JDemaris]

The one pictured is the cheaper 2 amp model from China via SportmansGuide, not the 1.5 amp model from China via Harbor Freight that cost a few bucks more. It is the biggest one of the two I posted info on. The 2 amp board has actual self-contained fuses soldered into the board. The other, smaller 1.5 unit has fusible links.

They will both break-current when amp-flow exceeds 5 amps, so I don't care what they look like . . or what they are made with.

As to the board frying during a lightning strike? Yeah, perhaps, and so what? Likely I'd fry too if hit by lightning. So, the board fries, and then it doesn't work anymore. I can say the same for several TVs, surge-supressors, and LNAs I've had fail when lightning strikes close by. That is supposed to be surprising?

With all the comments you've made, it's kind of hard to figure what exactly your problem is? Maybe you want to start a government-funded battery charging business and outlaw charging batteries at home? If so, why stop there?

 

[Billy Shafer]

I saw several chargers for standby gensets start fires. They first came out in 2006. I will have to look up who made them

 

[Steven-Id]

Fire inspectors do a {fairly good job} of determining the cause of a fire and where it started. In 1978 my fathers house had a wood shop attached to it and it burned to the ground. It was election day and I was sick. My dad asked me if I would go out to the shop mid afternoon if I felt better and give some cabinet doors another shot of urethane. When I went out at 3:00 pm and sprayed the doors the compressor was plugged in, so when I got done I left it plugged in. My dad came home at 6:00 pm and lit a fire in the wood stove. He put wood in it, lit it and never did anything with the stove after that. He was in and out of the shop until 10:00 pm. At midnight there was a knock at the door and a neighbor passing by saw the fire. The structure was a total loss. The fire inspector said the fire started along the south wall because it was hottest there! Dad questioned him on it saying there was 5 gallons of thinner sitting right there. He asked about in the one corner where there were about 20 sheets of plywood? It was hot there! Anyway when all was said and done they figured it was the compressor leaked down and when it started it blew the motor apart and that is what started the fire.
I have 2 questions still in my mind concerning this. 1. If there was enough of an explosion to blow the motor apart would there not have been enough to blow the walls out? {every wall went in, nothing ended up outside of the foundation.} 2. Insurance adjuster made the 180 mile trip faster than the sherrif's deputy made the 20 mile trip? { the deputy's brother had been seen stealing gas about 1/4 mile away the week before. Every tool in the shop had an armature left after the fire and unless we happened to pick up 75% of the tools in the first scoop with the backhoe when we started to clean things up someone had taken a lot of tools?] Just saying sometimes there are questions that can't be answered. Steven

 

[36 Coupe]

A loose belt on a compressor can start a fire.Compressors should be switched off or unplugged when not being used.If the motor starts and the belt doesnt turn you can have a fire.I did fire reports for our fire dept.If I couldnt fine the cause or the fire was suspicious the fire marshal was called.Did you know a magnifying glass can start a fire.I turn on the scanner went the trucks go out.I heard them say the fire was out ,a magnifying glass started a couch burning.My son was working at a doctors house.When the crew was leaving for the day my son smelled smoke .The was a cup on the doctors desk with some pens and a magnifying glass in it .There was a burn line on the wall panel.

 

[36 Coupe]

I have done fire reports for our fire dept,Retired now too old at 73.A 45 year old fire man died with a heart attack while pumping water from a fire pond.You have many holes in your knowledge.You dont need battery maintainers,my tractors sit for 2or 3 months and start with no battery charging.Monthly checks with a hydrometer will tell if a battery needs charging.Ive spent many hours ckecking batteries on tractors and trucks that stood idle for long periods of time.I took care of the generator at a hatchery for 3 years.It had a Chrysler 6 cyl.that had to start when the power failed.We did not have any china battery maintainers.If lightning hits the power line,diodes will short and battery charger transformers will be working into a dead short and will burn.AC DC welders will get shorted diodes if they are left plugged in.All power tools left plugged in can get lightning damage.Lightning can jump switches with ease.The last line of your post is a winner.

 

[36 Coupe]

Better look again.I found 4 fire trucks lost along with 2 ambulances.I didnt go 20 pages.

 

[JDemaris]

Yeah right, more sweeping unsupported statements to support your insipid argument. Why don't you show us even one gaping "hole" in my knowledge, that shows up in the posts I've made on this subject.

Come on - show me even one - with specifics. Not ranting anecdotal stories.

I can point out many in your's.

One being all lead-acid batteries self-discharge. There are NO exceptions. The more antimony used in construction, the faster they self-discharge.

Lead-acid batteries, if LEFT in a state of discharge for too long, get damaged from it.

Most modern autos and trucks have an additional, constant draw on the battery that adds to the long-term storage problem. Simple math. Self-discharge PLUS vehicle-electronics discharge.

You've yet to post any verfiable information on fires caused by the specific battery maintainers I've posted info on.

Also note I have never stated that anybody "needs" a maintainer. I posted accurate information on the subject for anybody that is interested. I stated they prevent batteries sitting in states of discharge. That was 100% true when I posted it, and still is.

This IS a forum for sharing information, correct? I doubt these forums have a primary focus on unsupported whining like your's.

If so, so be it. It's not my forum.

 

[36 Coupe]

Up here in Maine we call fellows like you boulder heads.

 

[36 Coupe]

Note that jdemaris call fellows who have seen battery chargers take fire story tellers.The danger is real,I hope fellows who use battery chargers or maintainers are aware of it.I know a fellow who lost 2 auto service to battery chargers.A battery charger started a fire that burned down 3 Houses in the town of Morril ME .I spent over 30 years on our fire dept.