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First Day on the job (Part Two)

L

Lanse

Well-known Member
Hey guys.

I just read through the whole thread, and I dont really know what to say here. Last night I was pretty steamed and mostly just venting, but I certainly wasn't expecting this many people would have anything to say about it.

Some of you guys are really great people, Id be proud to call most of yall my friends. You really are the best.

And some of the responses, I could only shake my head at and move on to the next one. I honestly wonder if some people even read the entire thread, or if they understood it, their replies are so far off, some of them are hardly even related to anything else being discussed.

Stick Welder sums it up the best. He did in a sentence what it took me way more to do:

"Lanse agreed to a welding apprenticeship not a job that had absolutely nothing to do with welding. He was lied to and had a legitimate reason to be pi$$ed and quit. Why can't you understand that?"

Let me sum this up. I worked damn hard last year to soak in everything I could in class, practiced everything I could, re-did my welds until I had atleast a 90 on every thing that I did (usually a 95), and kept my grade at an "A" every quarter last year. I even went out of my way to run the bigger and smaller electrodes than what we learn with, and did everything that I could on every project that came through the door. I was always one of the first ones to have my tools and gear out of my locker and at my station, and one of (usually the) last to cram everything back in there and head off to my next class.

And, I N E V E R had the expectation that I would be starting off welding, or have anything close to the best job in the place. Some people seem to think I have an entitlement attitude, and I really question where those thoughts come from, considering that Im trying to be an apprentice here. I AM!!! working my way up from the bottom, or atleast trying to. I thought thats how it worked, show up, get some education, start as an apprentice, move up, etc. I never said that I had any anticipation of this being an overnight process, etc.

And since when am I afraid of hard work?? Im not even going there. Lets just say that if I was, I doubt that I would have spent the day tossing around old school heating registers that must have weighed 400-500 pounds a piece. Even with a couple people, it was 96 degrees yesterday when I got home, and we were doing this for hours at a time. We couldn't even leave to go get water, just drink a lot during the breaks, every 2.5 hours. Im really trying not to get worked up over friggin ignorant comments from people who just dont have a clue. And, of course, no union in sight. The guy got really worked up when someone asked him about unions during the "interview", so I figured it was an non-union company that could handle things by themselves. My bad.


Heres the thing. I signed up for, read it, a WELDING APPRENTICESHIP. I never expected to be doing the greatest work in the place when I showed up, thats something else where I wonder where people got it from.

The night before, I was thinking about all this stuff. I didn't really know what to expect, but I figured it would be in the welding field at least. Actually, Im pretty sure thats kind of a requirement. But, nonetheless. I thought Id probably get really familiar with a grinder, pick up lots of tools, hold things for people to tack, get things ready to be welded in various ways, do lots of cleaning stuff up, etc. Anything really, I just kind of assumed it would in some way be welding related.

Not taking hvac systems apart. And being lied to.

Thats right, THEY LIED. They said we would be working with the pipe welders. THEY LIED. They said we would eventually learn to weld pipe. THEY LIED. They said we would get benefits. THEY LIED. They said we would be apprentices. THEY LIED.

What did they get right? The address, and the (crappy) pay. Everything else? T H E Y L I E D! ! !

Thats literally it. The only two parts of the job description that I can think of, that they got right.

And, when I signed on, They had something on the forms that said something along the lines of if you lied about your qualifications, or anything you said wasn't true, they would fire you on the spot if they found out. Welp, now theres a classic case of irony.

The truth is, if they had been straight up and said the kind of work we'de be doing, I might have actually considered it. But THEY LIED. Thats right, we were LIED TO! And by who, you ask? The guy whos our boss!! When I asked him about what we were doing there, he wouldn't give me a real answer. Why? Because HE * * * *'n LIED. He looked us in the eye, and L I E D!!

So, I guess they can lie about all but two things, and give me a $#^! job instead of a starter job, and somehow Im on shakey moral ground for leaving.

Lets get this straight, this is like you going to look at a truck. They say its a little bit used, but its got low miles and runs like a top, and drives like a dream. Its beautiful, not a scratch on it, always garaged.

When you show up, its a totaled burned out shell thats been fished out a river, with 670,000 miles on an engine thats missing and then you figure out you were lied to, and walk away, and you did something wrong? I dont think so.

Look, I really dont claim to know it all. Or even most of it. If I did, why would I try to get an apprenticeship. They lied about what we were doing (its not even welding related), and so I left. I can do better than that.



Oh, and BTW, I heard from the other welder today. He called me when he got off of work, and said they figured out I wasn't coming back, and he was done there as well, tomorrow at 3:30.

Apparently, they want to send him to a jobsite thats another hour and a half away (and no, he wont be doing any welding related work there either, they said "manual labor"), and so hed have an hour and 45 mins, both ways. They wont do any compensation for gas/travel, and if hes not there at 7 am Wednesday, he, like me, is fired for not showing up. These people dont even let you be late.

So, his options are head down there, work for next to nothing once gas is figured in, or just not have a job. Thats it. He said it'd be back breaking work, and its just not worth it. Apparently, some people from this jobsite ARE going there, and doing this little chore. His mom called the apprenticeship guy, and he was furious about the whole thing. I decided to wait until tomorrow to talk to him, and add to whatever his mom said.

So, thats that. Dang, this turned out to be way longer than I thought it would be. So, this is how it ends. I quit after day one, welder #2 quits after day 3, apprenticeship guy isnt happy (its the LAST time this company works with the school), and things are back where they started.

I really wonder what happened to the third guy. He is an HVAC student, and I wish him the best. Unfortunately, neither the other weldor or myself know him, we've just met him twice, once at the "interview", and once on the "job". I really do wish him the best, and I wish for the rest of these people to see this sham of a company for what it is, and run like the wind.

Again guys, thanks for everything. I really dont know what to say, your support is awesome, and this really is the best forum out there. Have a nice night, everyone :)
 

Army will start you off at $1467 a month along with a bunch of goodies.

No need for a healthy young man to sweep floors and work for peanuts......
 
on your resume you can now put down that yuo are a QUITTER!!! you took a job -- did not like it after day 1 and you QUIT! get over it and go to mickey d's and sell fries.
 
If I can make the same thing and my employer is halfway honest, i would.

Unless I could make the same thing (or even less) and LEARN something, and do work, then Id do that. But that would require, like, an apprenticeship.
 
Lanse, you need to find a small fabricating shop that has only a few employees that are not involved with production work, only specialty work. You would love it at Reliable Fabricating here locally. Never the same old same old. If you have ever come up I 65 from Louisville and saw the bridgework at Columbus,In. those are their creations. They build a lot of high end railing and stair works for museuns,etc. Once built a huge,all steel underground garage for Jimmy Ersay's toys at Culver, In. Jimy owns the Indianapolis Colts.
They are located in Noblesville,In.
I figured you would get hammered for quitting the first day. Its the same thing I would have done.
 
Holy sh!t man,He took a welding apprenticeship, and was doing HVAC work, what don't you understand about that. He may as well have taken the welding job and started working at mickey d's. Same difference. Either way it's not the job he signed up for.
 
you think ur gonna step outa school and fill a journymans shoes -- there was a time 20 yrs ago but things have changed , i have 35yrs in a laborers union , better take a good hard , honest look around -- i have had my share of chit jobs but i stuck um out mainly cus i needed the money -- gregger
 
Thanks Farmer Boy!! Youre one of the cool people, who "gets it".

"Actually" is just a troll, someone hiding behind the shroud of the internet. Hes here to stir the pot, so we might as well give him what he wants.



*clears throat*

"Would you like your coke diet or regular, and what size of fries with that number seven?"

*spits in fries*
 
Life sucks, it's not all gumdrops and lollipops. The sooner you find that out the better. Time to grow up. Pissin and moaning on the internet just makes you look like a fool too.
 
I can't figure out how some of these guys think that interior demolition and dismantlting inside a school has anything at all to do with welding or a welding apprenticeship? Then there's the people that think you wanted to do the work of a journeyman welder. I'd bet there wasn't even a welding machine on site. Just keep looking in fab and machine shops where they actually do welding. I think you'll make an excellent welder. All the journeymen welders out there had to start with simpler jobs but at least they were welding related. Don't let these other guys get to you. When someone so blatantly lies to you like this company did, it's not going to get any better. They didn't tell the truth because no one would have showed up. I'm glad your school is dropping them. Usually respectable companies work with schools.
 
Thanks man!! I really wanna be a weldor, its something that i really enjoy, and im told im somewhat good at it. Lol.

You speak the truth, and as they say, "haters gonna hate" and i dont really care. In the wise words of puddles, "opinions are like @$$#0!35 everyone has one" :)
 
Since everyone else is beating their chest and bragging about their hardknocks schooling, I'll give you my opinion. First you are really young and therefore inexperianced at decision making. What's wrong with that? So was I and everyone else on this earth. Maybe you should have stayed, maybe not. Only you will know the answer to that at a later time. I certainly wouldn't deter you from a military career, but its not for everyone. One thing I haven't heard anyone mention is going back to school. ANY kind of school! Tech., collage, the skys the limit at your age. So kick that one around also. So probably the best advice I can give you is don't put to much stock in advice. Mine or anybody else's. Just so everyone knows, I went to tech. school after highschool paid for by myself. Went to collage(quit because I was broke). Worked LOT'S of jobs, then came back and worked at the family business(which I now operate and have 5 employees.) O and I went to community collage and finished my engineering degree at 37. Good Luck Lanse
 
Just go do it on your own. It's not that hard all you have to know is more than the guy your doing the job for. Start something right now while you don't have to pay rent,buy food or support a family. It's all about what kind of job you do and the network you build.You might have to do all sorts of things other than weld but welding all day might not be as fun as you think.If someone call and asks if you can do something and you think you can... give them a bid.It's not that hard people will want to support a young guy if they like you,hardest part will be sticking to it when you have some money and want to go screw off. If you hit it hard you should have a little shop a nice truck and some extra money buy the time your old enough to buy beer.

In the end you have to live with the choices you make and I think you would feel better about yourself if you had told them you were not going to be back,but you'll learn from that.
 
Most have seen these kinds of things before, don't sweat the harsh comments from anyone here, not worth a warm bucket of spit for that matter ! Many a smart old timer will tell you if your not happy doing what your doing, move on, like you did, it don't make you a quitter. It is those who quite life in general that fall into that category. By the same token, if you have mouths to feed, responsibilities, where you are either responsible or accountable, life may take you down the road of having to tolerate a crap, low pay job, to get by, that's called sacrifice, a quitter will stay there for 39 years and complain for 40 years, you're smart enough to know you can do better, can learn and can develop your real potential instead of sit on it.


In business, you have to develop a mission statement, defining the parameters of what you do, your scope of work, the mainstay of what the goals or focus of that business is, its when you stray from that, go into to many directions, too many stokes in the fire, spread thin like a veneer, that will cause you problems or failure, you are focusing on becoming a welder, and that is what you must do to achieve the objective. Laboring for someone who has no intention of having you doing anything but that is a waste of time if your objective is to become a qualified welder. When you strategically plan the job experience you will need to achieve your goals, doing things other than what your focus should be is a waste of time, especially at your age, talk is cheap, I've heard all kinds of crap from bosses in my life, you'll be doing this, that, its crap until you are in position where you are learning, doing and logging real job experience, so that you can build that resume on a solid foundation, focused on valuable experience that is sought after by an employer. You don't want to waste time doing something other, again unless you have mouths to feed, bills to pay and you have no other choice, even then you have to always be looking for something better, its the quitter who accepts mediocrity, and does not make the changes needed to fulfill and substantiate a successful career.

One starts off with a solid work ethic, you show up early, you don't miss time, you don't party on "school night's" and show up tired, you work and give the employer a fair shake and a productive day for a days pay, you take that to any job, regardless. Most will work crap jobs at one time or another, I did, some of the worst conditions you can imagine, one of the first jobs I had was a graveyard shift in a bottle recycling plant with a bunch of hardened criminals who had it in for the clean cut kid, said they'd have me quit in 3 days, I stayed there a year, including several physical altercations with some of these cons that could have ended my life, would have been smart to quit in 3 days, but I stood my ground firmly, whole thing was a waste of time til I found something better, so I quit a year later, instead of the first day, none of the cons were still there, it was a nasty, violent place to work. Avoid places like these, situations like these are just unnecessary risks, people who are unhappy have a propensity to become volatile.

Stay focused on what you intend to do, don't sidetrack for no one, time flies my friend, go nowhere jobs are a dime a dozen, everyone has to start out somewhere by the same token, but if you know up front the job is not going to do you justice, find something else, especially, if you are young, single, no family to support, once that happens, that crap job may have to get you by.

Later on, once you have logged in the experience, education, college, vocation, what have you, staying focused on what builds solid resume, career, will be the most lucrative. Operating a business will do 2 things for you, you are accountable for yourself, and you have a better opportunity to earn profits that will exceed any paycheck working for the man, but it takes hard work, long hours and persevering dedication to a focused cause, in addition to being very careful with ones finances. Eventually through hard work, its worth it, but it is not any easy hill to climb, you may fail a few times as well.


To heck with those crap jobs LOL, stay focused, and don't sweat all the small talk, you quit, don't relive it, move on and look far head of you, the other stuff will just drag you down !
 
Question: Were you actually told it was a pristine truck or did your excitement lead you to believe that?

Comment: I know this won't sink in at all but I am going to type it out anyway. Last summer my school district installed a new heating system in our entire building. It was installed by JF Ahern (www.jfahern.com). That company did all the major demo of the old heating system and installed the new one, retrofitting the existing infrastructure as needed. I work for the district during the summer as janitorial staff. I got to know the guys fairly well over the course of the 3 months they were there. One guy I met the first time removing air handling univents in the classrooms. Nice guy and seemed like a hard worker. Later in the year when I needed a piece of pipe threaded to reroute a gas line he was the guy that used their Ridgid die machine and threaded it for me. Finally during the last parts of the install of the boilers someone needed to weld on 3 bungs and a cap onto a 3" gas line and then weld that stub onto the end of the existing line. Want to take a guess who did that? He did a hell of a job too. Now technically he was the pipefitter but you get the point.
So anyway, yes sometimes the welders, even the journeymen, on the job site do tasks other than their designated titles.

I think the real culprit here was that you were looking for a fabrication welding job. However, you signed up with a commercial contractor from the sounds of it. Welding apprentice means very different things to those two employers; just like truck means something quite different to my aunt who drives a 4 cylinder ranger and my next door neighbor who works as a lineman for the power company.

Final Comment: You spoke of all the hard work you put into your welding classes and the effort you put into doing your best (although some spatter disagrees with you there). That is all wonderful and coming from a teacher this may sound weird but it doesn't mean jack in the real world. Doing it once and in one location doesn't work. You have to do that every day and for every supervisor. The next job you have put that effort into it and see where that takes you.
 
i know hes a troll. its just really pis$ed me off to see the number of replies saying your a quitter, lazy, dont want to pay your dues etc. if they had read your original post they would have understood what really happened
 
I've been a long-time reader of your exploits, and I am now to the point where I HAVE TO comment. Background: I'm a grandfather who has worked a lot of different jobs including welding and fabrication, and enjoyed most of them. Raised 4 kids and helped put them and my wife through college. Advice: The people who know what they are talking about around here, Farmer Boy,BillyNY, and others are right. You didn't quit, you are just taking your talents to someone who didn't start right off with one big lie. Had three employers lie to me (not about small stuff) and I quit each one as soon as I could. I've never been scared of work (grew up on a farm) and each time I just found a better job. There are a lot of good companies to work for, or take your shot at working for yourself. Just don't let the bad taste of this one linger in your mouth. My youngest son, just a few years older than you, is working as a welder, building frames for steel buildings. He had to pass welding certification tests for both the US and Canada, but said the tests were easy after he got his certificate from the local Vocational School. The school also helped him get the job.

Last, I did quit one of my jobs after only one day. I could see it wasn't going to work so I told them on the way out to mail me my check, because I was never coming back. Then I made sure I got a better job and worked hard at it, so that I never had to come back.

Good luck to you, young man, and please post your next success. Lots of us are pulling for you!
 
Lanse
Don't take this the way.
There is "more than one way to skin a cat" the old saying goes.
One of the best ways to learn how to build and fabricate are to tear something apart and see how it was put together. No need to reinvent the wheel. Believe it or not you were being taught a valuable lesson on that job, you just didn't realize it.
There is a difference between "quitting a job" and being "a quitter". Quitting a job is telling your employer you are leaving his employment, a quitter just leaves and never goes back without a word.
I hope you reread the posts and realize what the majority of people are telling you in their own way is "be better than that".

Scott
 
I've read all the reply's and I understand your disappointment.Here's one thing that would throw a red flag for me.

Welder Apprentice wanted?

In construction the welder is the machine.The crafts person preforms the work.

Contractors call for Laborers,Carpenters,Operating Engineers,Iron Workers,Pipe Fitters,Plumbers Boiler Makers,Electricians,ect.All these Crafts got one thing in common,they all need people who can weld.

I know you looked at the ad and had high hopes and big expectations and that's what the contractor wanted to happen.It's called the hook.You applied,got the job,signed there agreement and went to work.If the ad would have said demo help need you and your buddy wouldn't have given it a second look.They got a day out of both of you .And from what you described this is probably a real stand up outfit anyway.You might be better off in the long run.My oldest son's an Electrician.He wanted to be a wire man welder and thought that's what he would start out as cause he was a good welder.It took 5 years to get there and now that's what he is.The only others that could certify to work on the project he's on came from Florida and Georgia to Illinois.

Look in a local shop and ask if they need help.Don't tell them how good you are,let'em see it.You might start out sweepin' the floor and grinden slag' but it's a start.When they think your ready you'll get your chance.You push too hard you might get pushed out the door.

I had a business for a lot of years and when I hired some one they started with the basics.When I saw there ethic was good they moved up and if not good they moved on.

Hang in there my friend and push on.Good things come to those who wait.Good Luck.
 
Lanse wasn't being taught any valuable lessons at this job. The employer out right lied in order to try and get some grunt labour. Perhaps Lanse and the other welding student taught the employer a valuable lesson? Don't lie to your employee's or they might might resent it and leave.
 
Stick to your guns Lanse...
I went thru a bunch of looser jobs before I found the right one. It's had its ups and downs, but I'm glad I waited to find the right one. I've been there 38 1/2 years now.

And if you think the military may be in your future, remember ALL branches have welding shops.
I spent 4 years in the USAF working in A sheet metal shop that was right in between a WELDING shop and a MACHINE shop, we could fix/make almost anything.

But just remember..Anything the RECRUTER tells you is a LIE...Good Luck!
 
Lanse I have backed you on here when some others have rode you hard. I will not back you on this deal. You have made several mistakes about this.

1) The company may have lied to you about what you where hired to do. I can understand that not being what you want to do. I have quit several jobs over the years. You want to know what the difference is???? I QUIT THE JOBS. You ran away!!!!!! You just did not show up for work the next day. If you knew you where going to quit. Then go up to the person in charge of you for the day, foreman or who ever. TELL them you are quiting the job. Maybe even agree to work the balance of the week. MAN UP and tell them to their face you are quiting. Then hold your head up with honor and go home.

2) Alway try to take the high road. You don"t need to go whine to your teacher/forum/whole world about this problem. Tell your teacher/trainer that the job was not what was promised and that it would not work out for you. The end result is the same but you would have come off as being more mature about how you handled it.

3) Any job right now is going to be hard to get. So keep that in mind. I am very surprised that you where even let on a job site with out being eighteen. Here in Iowa you would be very limited in what you could do.

You where wired about this being your first job. So now you have to find number 2,3,4,5,6. You will hold many jobs during your life time. It is how you handle yourself during this process that will determined how successful you are. On this one you only got it about half right.
 
Lanse, hopefully you could tell from my reply to your first post that I'm one of the ones that "got it" concerning your reason for quitting. After this post if there is anyone out there that still doesn't "get it" them they obviously either haven't read your post or are just too (insert work of your choice here) to understand.

That said you did say one thing in this post that I have to comment on. Having kept up with your posts over the years and given the general tone of them I feel like you may have "misstated" exactly what you meant but in this post you say "These people dont even let you be late". All I'm gonna say is that there are very few companies out there that are gonna tolerate people 'being late' regardless of the excuse. Although I have worked for myself for close to 15 years now I still remember all the years I worked for others. Even 'way back then' one thing that wasn't tolerated was a guy that couldn't be on time. Granted things like flat tires, major accidents that caused a huge traffic jam, etc happened and were understood. For any other non-emergency type reason, if you were late more than once or twice you might as well plan to get your walking papers. That said regardless of wether the job you eventually find is two hours from home or two minutes, always plan for the worst so you know your gonna show up on time...prefferably early but worst case on time......

As far as the working for yourself part, just remember when you do that you have more 'bosses' than you'll ever have working for someone else. The thing there is you do have a little more freedom to walk away from the job, price it out of their range, etc, etc, if they show they are going to be a PITA. Thing is that's a double edged sword. I say this because although you might not do the job and have to put up with the BS, you also don't get a check. Too if you do too many jobs like this the word will get out that YOU are the one that is hard to work with and then you won't get any calls, even from the 'good' customers. In other words self employeement does have certain advantages but for every plus there is typically an equal negative. Having done it myself for so many years I can tell you for sure it's not as easy or 'glamorous' as it may sound and/or as some people think it is because they don't know any better. In the end if you have a good work ethic and do a good job for a fair price don't be afraid to jump in with both feet if your able. It takes time to get your name out there and then to develop a good name for yourself so if you can start when your young then your already starting out ahead of some of us older guys that didn't get the chance til later in life. Good luck in whatever you do. Wayne
 
Well, I've read both parts of the Lance story and I'm amazed at this young man. How many of you have noticed how he write? For a 17 year old young man he is amazing. I can tell you one thing, there aren't many 17 year old kids who can write as good as he can. He wrote some long stories and did a great job. Since no one commented I thought it should be mentioned.
Lance, this is a good site with lots of great people with great advice and ideas. Of course there are others too, who,, well you know who you are.
Many of us are old and were raised and worked in a different era. Now times are different, a lot different that back when. I worked 41 years for the same company, not many young people of today will do that. During those 41 years there were lots of ups and downs but I stuck with it because it was a good company. I started out at the bottom and worked my way up,, but I wasn't lied to. I watched many come and go for various reasons and I guess the biggest reason was because they didn't like to work. This is the problem many companies have nowadays, people don't like to have to work, I mean physical labor. That's why so many companies have gone to so much automation. I watched this happen in every department where I worked.
I can tell by the way you write Lance, you're not lazy and you will make a good employee one day. If you can't find your place think about other options.
Suggestion:
If you can, go back to school and study to be a machinist. I think you would like this kind of work. Learn to operate lathes, mills and above all, CNC machines. With you ambition and skills you will find a good job with someone who appreciates you.
Above all Lance remember: You will never know it all. Everyday you will learn something new, be it good or bad. Know how to tell the difference.

Thanks for sharing you life with us here.
 
Lanse wasn't just lied to, he was scammed! When the same person couldn't even give him a straight answer, after others had already told him there'd be no welding related work, that person HAD to know that Lanse was not a happy camper. The person who hired/scammed Lanse should be ashamed of himself for what he did to those students just getting out of high school. Lanse didn't run away, he just didn't show up the next day. After scamming Lanse the way they did, why in the world should Lanse have to give any explanations for his actions? He was completely justified in quitting and doesn't owe them a thing! I don't think Lanse is whining, he was really excited about this job and is telling it like it is. Lanse is upset and anybody in the same shoes would be as well.
 
Lanse, The only thing I see you did wrong was how you quit. Any employer knows it is likely for their help to move on. It is expected. The reasons probably don't matter. A notice before you decide to not show up is required. Even a short notice is better than none. I have been watching your progress since you first posted on YT. You are a good example of what is right with high schoolers today.. Wayne
 
Lanse, were you recruited through your school? If so, you should report your former employer's duplicity back to the career counseler so other students don't get duped. If the school gets enough complaints, the company should be banned from recruiting there.

Otherwise, it's just a job. It won't be the last job where an employer will make promises to you that they don't keep. I hope you'll find something that works out for you. I don't see anything wrong with quitting the first day on the job, just don't make a habit of it.
 
Lanse the last job I was on as an apprentice was a mock nuclear power plant in San Jose CA. I was the only apprentice on the site. Surrounded by pipe fitters and pipe weldors. I bugged the crap out of all the pipe weldors to teach me how to weld pipe. One old pipe weldor really took a liken to me, he gave me some advice that worked out to be some of the best I ever got. He said kid, the trade you're in you'll never be a good weldor, you have to weld 8-hours a day everyday for years to be really good. He suggested I go to work in a welding shop. I quit that job to move to Seattle, got some really bad advice from my in-laws! I moved here just as the dry dock for the Trident submarine base was winding down, about 10,000 construction workers on the bench. I took a huge cut in pay to go to work in a welding shop. They didn't have any openings at the time, but the owner of the shop said he could put me to work sweeping the floors until material for the next contract arrived. Gulp, now who's got to swallow some pride now? I took the job, can't remember how long I sweep floors, and cleaned up, but I did it! With in a year I was night shift foreman, worked there 3-years, and went back into construction. The 3-years I worked there was one hard core welding apprenticeship! Our main contract was building nuclear waste tanks for the Hanford nuclear reservation.
Maybe this advice will work for you? :wink:
 
This was my overall impression too... Lanse is a GREAT writer! My advice is don't let the criticizers get you down. Also, I've done the tool & die apprenticeship decades ago and been in that business for years. I'll say that trade isn't what it used to be with our government outsourcing manufacturing to other countries.
 
Lanse---I think you have TREMENDOUS potential!!! You obviously have lots of talent for welding, as well as an intense interest in succeeding at what you are capable of doing. AND--you know how to express yourself extremely well for someone your age. As well as using proper grammar !! That will take you far eventually. Why not, at this point, go to a community college to get even more training, all the while exploring potential cites where you feel you would like to work. And just ask lots of questions about potential working places. Maybe you could get an instructor, or a shop supervisor somewhere, to guide you or recommend you to a shop that is known to have high morale. You've got lots of back-bone----I was a limp noodle when I was your age. Take the high ground in your decisions!!
 
Some supervisors are known to lie and that happened to me when I was drafted during the Korean War. They said you will be getting the same promotions as the men that were 4F do to health problems and were still working. When I was rehired as as a returning vet I got the promotions and the nonvets were bumped in a reduction in force. They called them RIF's. I worked there 43 years including my 2 years in the Army. They even teach welding in the services. Hal
 
(quoted from post at 04:35:12 06/08/11) Some supervisors are known to lie and that happened to me when I was drafted during the Korean War. They said you will be getting the same promotions as the men that were 4F do to health problems and were still working. When I was rehired as as a returning vet I got the promotions and the nonvets were bumped in a reduction in force. They called them RIF's. I worked there 43 years including my 2 years in the Army. They even teach welding in the services. Hal
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You can't be telling positive experiences and screw up a good soap opera :roll:
 
I hope it all works out. Sometimes you just never know if you make the right decisions, but learning your craft, being dilligent and giving it your all is all you can do. It's not always easy. I've been lied to many times in 20 yrs, it's just how people are. I've also done the low jobs for a long time. I've worked here for 15 yrs and owned it for 8. I still was plunging a toilet a couple nights ago in the office bathroom. It's not always going to be peaches and cream, regardless if you're the guy on the floor, the forman or the big boss.
 
Suck it up buttercup.
It's jolt stepping out into reality. From what the education system, media and society tells you what is "real".
I work with some "hydro babies" that never worked anywhere else but at Hydro. They started right out of school here. These whiners have no clue of how good they have it compared to everything else out there.
 
Lanse,I have been following your threads and I wasn't going to say anything but now I think I will. I was a teacher for 31 years and then I worked as a mechanic in my friend's shop. Our High School had Coop programmes for students to go out in the community and work in a specific area that would lead to careers in related fields. When I worked at the shop I convinced my boss to take coop students. It was good for everyone,mind you these students didn't recieve any pay,they recieved credits in auto mechanics for the hours worked,so they could be credited with a course. We did our best to include them in whatever was going on in the shop,could be a brake job or changing out a gas tank or selling a set of tires and installing them. All of this was related work with meaningfull experience.The school sent around the program coordinator to check on the students and evaluate their progress through our written and verbal reports.
The biggest criticism I heard was that many employers would take a coop student and then use them as a labourer knowing full well they didn't get paid a cent. The school weeded out those kind of employers and used only businesses that actually carried out the program.
In your case I think you got royally screwed,never mind the guys saying this was a test..it was some unscrupulous SOB that figured out how to get the cheapest labour he could find,assigning all the jobs no one else wanted to do in the shop.Should you be welding the first day..NO! But jobs like sorting the steel,piling,cleaning..becoming familiar with the shop ,helping a welder,those are all jobs related to what you should be doing.
The fact that your program coordinator was furious at what you kids had been asked to do seems to ellude the readers here.This business made an agreement with the school to provide work related to your field,and the school accepted,in the community, in that situation with those students.Reassigning you to another site where you will have to drive and board was not part of any plan that you or your school agreed to.You would be subjected to the same treatment you got.
Many readers herefelt you were a quitter and you didn't give it a chance.Well from My experience with coop programes,you might have stuck it out for a few days to see if it got better,BUT from my experience it would not have gotten better,this employer took students because he saw cheap hard labour and it financially benefits him and his company.You students on the other hand were being cheated,cheated on the pay scale,cheated on what you signed up for and your school was being cheated,this is why your coordinator was furious. Many folks here have mistaken a school program as an entry level employment. If you were being paid $12 an hour and were going to be working in that facility,then working your way up like many said they did would be one factor,but its not employment per se, it is a school program. Your school was lied to and you students were lied to and the employer?...I can't type what I think of someone who would exploit youth through a school program. Keep your chin up Lanse,your supervisor at school has got it!
 
I've always been thankful that I got the father I got.....After reading some of these replies, I know for certain I got one of the best ever... And I know some people who posted here shouldn't be allowed to breed.

That, and ignorance MAY be bliss, but it certainly is COMMON.

Lance, no one (with anything beyond limited mental capacity) would hold it against you for leaving a sh!t job. Most "kids" your age don't/won't even work, much less be pounding the pavement looking for a BETTER job. You did what you thought best at the time. No one else was there, no one else has to live with your decision. So in that regard, no one else has any right to beat you down over that choice.

You'll do OK.
 
You didn"t do anything wrong by quitting this loser company. In the app. they say if they catch you in a lie they will fire you. So then turnabout is fair play. They lied to you so you have every right to "fire" them. I don"t blame you one bit.
 
Lanse, I think part of the reason that some folks attack on here is that they are convinced that 100% of the young people in America are illiterate, as well as lazy. Since you express yourself well, you take the "illiterate" half of that argument away from them...so they have to double up on the "lazy" criticism to feel good about themselves.

Of course, each and every one of your critics never made a choice in their lives that they wished they could take back; they always exercised perfect judgement when they were 17, and never made a mistake. So they have plenty of room to throw stones at you, since they don't live in glass houses themselves.

Me? I've made some good choices, and I've made some bad ones. I've learned something from each, so even the bad choices were't a total loss. I'm thinking you made a right choice here, but you handled it the wrong way by just disappearing, rather than having a face-to-face with a supervisor about why you were leaving BEFORE you left.

So get out there in the garage and finish up a couple of those projects, so you won't have to keep hearing that criticism of your work ethic. Clean up your slag and your spatter when you weld, and be conscious that folks WILL judge you on that aspect nearly as much as the quality of your welds. Think of it as working in a restaurant; if you're whipping up the most delicious food in the world, bu it looks like dog barf, you're gonna turn off a lot of folks. Anticipate such criticism, and then eliminate the basis for it.

After you turn 18, your work opportunities will be a bit broader. At your age, you CAN be a little selective at first. Take advantage of that. Then do what you can to be the model employee: be the first one there in the morning, the last to leave, and learn all you can about the business [not just the part you're doing today.] In fact, if you can get into some adult ed or some community college business courses in your off time, that'll make you potentially a more valuable employee. If you can get a business degree--even a so-called "two-year" associates degree--in business management, with courses in marketing and supervision, as well as accounting--and make SURE you learn to use programs like Microsoft Office, because that's something employers who look for managers are increasingly specifying in their ads.

Why am I talking about more school, at the time you're looking to get out? Because in this day and age, experience often isn't enough. Employers look for education to go with that experience, as much as they look for experience to go with education. AND...should you decide to go into busiess for yourself...banks look more kindly upon folks starting a business who have some knowledge of how business works, and for young folks, education can take you places where you haven't had the time to get 20+ years of experience.

And when you do get into the work you like, don't brag on your abilities; let your work speak for you. Go into every job with the attitude that you're going to build a good reputation for your work...and then do it. Make your word as good as gold; do what you say you'll do. Under-promise and over-deliver. And even when what you're doing is no fun, don't complain...because no matter HOW good you are, folks remember what they hear as much as what they see. Tha goes for co-workers as well as employers and supervisors, because co-workers sometimes move into positions where THEY eventually are responsible for either hiring or possibly steering work your way...OR away from you, depending on the impression you've left with them. You won't be 18 forever, and neiher will they.

And that brings me to the last aspect of this: you won't be 18 forever. So don't pass on taking that supervision course or that management class now just because you think you won't need it for awhile. I was 18, too...and in the blink of an eye, I'm now 56. And at 56, there are some thinks I simply can't physically do that were easy when I was 18. My bifocals are a PITA when I'm working under the dash of a car and can't position my head where I need them to properly see things. ALLOW FOR THOSE KINDS OF THINGS TO HAPPEN, because they do. Prepare yourself for th day when you won't be hanging upside down welding stuff because your back or your knees won't function that way anymore...because those days DO come, and usually sooner than we expect. Use your head for something other than a place to hang a weld helmet and a do-rag; develop what's inside as you go.

AND...on the job...it helpd to be the guy with the sense of humor, rather than the "gloomy Gus" that everybody else dreads to work with. While I don't think that'll be a problem for you, it's somehing to keep in mind.

So instead of being completely critical of you, as some folks are--they're the "glass half empty" crowd, IMHO--I'm trying to look at your glass as being half full, and I'm going to encourage you to not only go on doing things, but to do things better and smarter than I did when I was your age.
 
I think most of you missed the point. He was lied to. I spent most of my working life working with high voltage electricity. You had to be able to trust everyone around you. Anyone caught in a lie was fired on the spot.

Lanse sounds like a smart kid. I am sure he didn't go to this job. Thinking he was going to be welding right off the bat. The bottom is where you start and I feel he new that.

Lanse never work for a company that will lie to you. You did the right thing.
 
well ok , its your life.but IN future use you brain just a little.Just EXACTLY how many pipeline welding jobs did expect to find on a site building a school?I never said you were afraid to work,I commend you for even hunting a job,but thats the way work goes.Next construction site might have needed more welders,but i guarantee you you'll be doing the crap jobs till then ,get used to it.Companies ,and especially construction companies, dont have the luxury of picking and choosing their jobs today like they have in past.Most are diversified enough that they can keep crews busy by doing work outside their normal line.like I say not much call for a whole lot of pipeline welders building a school.But next week or next month their may have been a pipeline job starting.did you ask? doubt it..you came on here whining because you'd been mistreated! wont get any sympathy from me,i was running a 90 lb jack hammer doing a mans work at 13,all day every day.been around construction jobs all my many years and I know how it works. and believe me ,if you couldnt handle the first day you wont make the next 50 years.you learned a lesson ,change your focus now cause you'll never make it in the construction buisness ,pipeline or otherwise!
 
They lied to you, and you quit. Big deal. People get lied to and quit jobs every single day, and that's your right. I just don't see how you came out any kind of winner in this situation. You don't have a welding job you're going to today. You have a big nada on your resume where you could have at least had some kind of work experience, and work experience in the construction field. You have no good recommendation from the foreman for your next job opportunity. You have no cash to buy supplies for your next welding project, or to take a cute girl out on a date. How did you come out ahead?
David
 
have you EVER did construction work????? what are you going to do run the new stuff inside the old??this aint a union job ,they dont sit on thier thumbs until the grunt works done so some welder can make one weld and set back down until the grunts can chip his weld for him like they do on some bs union job.get real for christ sake.sit at home and watch tv if your hot and sweaty.just get out of the way and let the mexicans work, your slowing them down.
 
any one who doesnt think hvac men dont weld ,and dont do it very well is either ignorant or hasnt ever done any.
 
lanse, if i were in your place, i would have done the same thing. bottom line, they advertised an "apprenticeship" under the guise of a labor crew. cleaning up junk with no chance of practicing your career skills will do nothing for you. as a business owner, if i put an apprentice on, he will learn all facets of my shop. training an apprentice is a huge capital investment for a business. if he makes a mistake, it cost my business money. look to your local welding and fabricating shops and see if they will take you on as an apprentice. you are a bright young man and highly motivated. disregard the nay sayers, i believe you will do fine!!!!
 
BUZZMAN & M.SOLDAN...you two (along with a few others) have hit it "out of the park" with comments to this young man. GOOD COMMENTS and GREAT ADVICE!!

I am of the opinion that young people today...of Lanse's type/character/ambition... WANT to do things that are productive and that contribute to society.

My Dad spent his working life managing a farm for a children's home...40 years. He had 12 to 18 teenage boys to "entertain" every summer...and that included me from about 12yrs old. Some boys got to "drive the tractors" and others got to "drive the trucks" during small grain harvest...hay season...silage cutting...and I well remember when silage was cut with a machete. (I've offloaded a few tons of corn stalks into the PAPEC cutter/blower by myself!!) Others learned about one end of a hoe from another. Some even got to do some "mechanicing" on the trucks, tractors, etc. etc. etc.

WHY did one young lad get to do something when another did not? Dad always told me that he rated "attitude" higher than "ability".

When I was doing landscape/custom tractor work, I had a couple young men (HS senior/just graduated) work for me. One was a real "GO-GETTER" and it was always a "good tired" I felt at the end of the day when Luke and I worked together. He had a saying that I've kinda/sorta adopted when things would not go right: "The MAIN thing is don't get excited".This would invariably come out when something would break or go wrong...usually with me. There were many days he would be the "boss" when I wanted to "get excited". We worked on cleaning a sewerline right of way...Luke on chainsaw and me on the 4610 Ford with loader pushing brush/debris aside. (This young man was G-O-O-O-O-O-D with a saw and far better than me.)

The second young man was certainly capable and would work with a good attitude/spirit...BUTTTTT when he was through with hid task he would lean on the proverbial shovel handle and WAIT for me to give additional instructions. Often times my "tiredness" at the end of the day was not so "good". I slowly came to realize that Mike was afraid to do much on his own for fear I would not be pleased.

LANSE...The point I'm trying to make here with my rambling is that of ATTITUDE and willingness. You apparently have a good/great attitude and a willingness to work. DON'T lose that spirit.

Just be slow/careful/certain about how you "call him out" on not being completely upfront with you.

Is it just possible that the "job recruiter" did NOT know fully the work situation? It is one thing to deliberately mislead (LIE) you and quite another to be "honestly mistaken" in the interviews. Think about it.

GO GETTEM TIGER!!

Rick
 
wheather or not he was lied to..he took a job he couldnt or wouldnt do and lied when he said he would!let me ask Lanse a question here. in your two bit high school on the bench welding class, Lanse,did you ever weld metal as thin as heater duct?were you good at it?did you do it 20-30- 40 feet in the air?standing on a rikety ladder?did you do it standing on a 3/4 pipe 20 floors up in a pipe chase ,overhead,when it 130 degrees,and so loud from the scream of jet turbines running that you couldnt think??and youve been there 30 hours straight?have you even BEEN on a building 30 stories tall in 10 degree below zero weather standing on a slick sheet metal roof with nothing between you ,a 50 mile an hour wind ,and certain death is a rope?get ready son, it gets a WHOLE LOT worse than taking out heating duct.you say you want to be a pipe line welder,have you ever stood in raw sewage up to your waist,and welded a pipe over your head?have you hung on the side of a rig and welded on flow pipe with a flair a hundred foot high a hundred foot from you singing your hair off? have you laid in mud on your back freezing cold and patched holes in a pipe with it coated up with salt or with a nice good coating of parrafin in it?Have you even seen hydrochloric acid ooze out of the ground eating the concrete from a pipe eaten thru underground in a chemical plant? I have ,many, many ,many, times.did they mention this stuff in class? do you really think your ready to do this just because you had a teacher who patted you on the back and graded you on a sliding scale?or you can write your name and know the symbol for spell check?.I apologize if you think i'm hard on you,i'm an old man who grew up in a different world.but some things never change, one is that when you take a job you do it,that goes wheather your the biggest construction company in the world or a illiterate indian in the jungle of south america.Whatever else you do, no matter where you go,now matter when where or how,that and only that is what other people will judge you by. nothing else. you could be the best welder ,the best mechanic, the best pilot ,the best anything in the whole entire world,but if you cant hang,if you cant complete something, anything,if you are not willing to stick it out for the long haul, your nothing !! you have ABSOLUTLY NO marketable skills that the world is interested in! why? simply because every person you meet wants something from you,and for lack of any other proof they judge you by results ,not intentions.In the best of times,the best folks in the world could stick their finger in a bucket of water ,pull it out and not leave a hole.
 
Quitting a job is no big deal. Walking off the the job the first day is. To keep from getting a bad record you need to see and talk to the person doing the hiring not a foreman on the job. I have been hiring people for over 40 years and when I check references and find they have walked off a job before I don't waste my time no mater how good they looked at the interview.
This is not an attact. It is just how things work.
 
That's OK Lanse.......
Dust yourself off and go after another job!

When I began as a construction mechanic, I was "trained" at first by wheel-borrowing concrete for new home footers and cellars. Then on to insulation in housing.............. the point is that after a year I was wrenching on equipment full time, BUT I knew the company owner through his son. In any of the trades, you'll go through a bit of crap.
DO tell them you're quitting, and why (but don't get loud or belligerent)
Just stay your easy, levelheaded self, and keep on truckin!
 
Well said!

High School+ is such a requirement today, we won't even consider somebody for the mail room that hasn't done some higher ed.

Of course at my company we promote from within so a lot of the mail room guys have moved up into real good jobs...
 
Lanse doesn't even have to list or mention he worked at this place for 1 day. It's not like there's file they can look his name up and know everything he's ever done.
 
(quoted from post at 10:25:26 06/08/11) Lanse doesn't even have to list or mention he worked at this place for 1 day. It's not like there's file they can look his name up and know everything he's ever done.
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BINGO! He's still in school,who cares what he's done!
As I said, I've quit the same company numerous times, they never held it against me. Quit a good buddy several times for yelling at me. He is a project manager for Kiewit Bridge & Marine running a 30-million dollar project right now. One phone call and I could be on the payroll this afternoon. Quiting jobs is just part of doing business.
 
Jackinok, you are dillusional! Lanse wasn't told he was going to a school demolition site to be a laborer. That's the biggest problem here. He took someone at their word and they told him a bald faced lie. If Lanse had told the employer a bald faced lie, he'd be be fired. Lanse just fired the employer for the exact same reason. You sound more like you wish you would have done the same thing Lanse did instead of working on some real crap jobs. Just because you didn't stand up for yourself and call a spade a spade, doesn't mean Lanse can't. He had legimate reasons to leave that job after one day.
 
No one ever 'fired' an employer. I think it is wrong to justify walking off a jobsite because one is not satisfied with a job.

Barring serious safety considerations an employer has bought your services for x hours at y pay. If this becomes unacceptable there are ways to handle the situation-most importantly by documenting the situation and keeping copies of the document for future reference. Resigning is the proper way to end a job that you took by your free will.

From his interaction on this board I think Lanse is ambitious and has a future in the industry. I have stuck up for him in the past and hate to see someone suffer a black mark on their job history for spite.

Brad
 
Finally the voice of someone who knows what apprenticeship means. The reason good companies take on new apprentices is so they they can train them the way they want hoping they will make their careers there. They don't want to go to the trouble and expense to train people so they leave to work for someone else. It's better than hiring someone that they have no real idea if they know what they're doing or what their work habits are. People that want to start an apprenticeship want to get a trade and have a career rather than just a job. Lanse certainly wasn't going to get that where he was.
 
He didn't sign up for HVAC. I am well aware HVAC men weld. Taking those registers apart is not related to welding. It is related to HVAC. The only person that work was appropiate for was the HVAC student. With your logic, one could say that farmers weld, so if Lanse was plowing, that would be related to welding.
 
If it was a bad job and you quit,thats fine.But you walk up to the man who hired you or the foreman and tell them you quit.Dont get lippy,just quit.Some people would rather climb up in a tree and lie to you than stand on the ground and tell the truth.Sounds like an outfit that has trouble hiring laborers and lies to get people there.However you came on here a few weeks ago and said you had an apprentice job to be a welder.What led you to believe that?Did they say that or did you imagine that?Also if you are 17 how can you even get a job as a laborer?Or an apprentice?Plus I dont recall that you even said this was some deal through your school.I thought you went looking and found this job.I dont know about nowdays but when I went to vocational school I dont think they paid you anything to work on those school programs,in fact I thought you had to pay for everything yourself and still work for nothing.
You live around Dayton dont you? Look and see who needs welders in the Dayton area.If the liars can hire you maybe they can too.
I doubt you are going to find a non union apprentice job anywhere.You will have to go wait in line like everybody else,plus maybe even bribe somebody to get on as an apprentice when you are 18,if you even can.Maybe if you know somebody,but most likely be a long wait.You probably could from the looks of your work get a job welding at a factory somewhere,either union or non union and weld,or maybe help a welder at first.
If you think you worked hard at school,it may have seemed that way,but after 2 weeks on the job of being a welders helper or a welder tell us what you think of hard work at school.It will seem like some game compared to working.
Also when you went to work there and they had you tearing up radiators instead of welding,maybe you should have asked somebody who writes your paycheck whether you were going to weld instead of some other kid.You are probably right and they lied to you,and of course you say he wouldnt give you a straight answer,but you could have just as easily said since you dont want to give me a straight answer Ill just save both of us any more trouble and quit then.You are going to run into all kinds of people that lie to you,everywhere,not just at work.Some of the lyingest people there are are recruiters for the service.While some military would maybe do you good,you have time and need to see what the working world is like.Also maybe after 2 weeks of welding you might not like it much.
If you think this is bad,there are lots of worse things you could do.If you are the boss,you have to do a lot more stuff and also you dont have any certain hours,you can work 24 hours or longer if you want to.You may have to to get anything done.Sometimes help is not much help to you.
I dont know but there is a lot for you to learn.Just forget about this place and dont even put it on your next application because nobody is going to"get it",and like I already told you,everything is all your fault.It will be like that until you"get it".
Ill look quick and see if I can find any welding jobs in the Dayton Ohio area!Ill post the phone number if I find any.
 
what a crock,I never did learn to run backwards,the few jobs i left I assure you they knew i was leaving and it was generally after the fight! AND i never left one that i wasnt asked to return to before the day was over!in nearly 70 years working i was out of work one week,and that was when I told folks who called every day i was on vacation.lost one day of being off sick,because i cut all the tendons in my had and had to get sewed up.let him live in his folks garage the rest of his life,that seems to be the norm these days.Like I say ,I lived in different world and was glad to be a part of it.what is it, 40% of the folks in this country or more are living on the gov dole today?its time folks went back to work,even if its a job you dont like.use that job and the contacts you make there to move on up,I never hated to lose a hand to a better job when they could advance them selves. and I guarantee he would have come more likely finding that welding job if he were working,than if he were knocking on doors,simply because he would be around the companies and their employees who were working and those who had work to do!.myself ,I'd have spent my breaks and lunch time talking to the welders(if their were any there) and getting to know them .but thats the way we did it in the old days, didnt rely on school or heresay to get us work.like I say I commend him for wanting to work,and TRULY wish the boy well.but its time to get started,at 17 he could have been ahead of the rest,he could have had the contacts made in the field,and on the job where it really matters.but he quit before he got going good.No hair off my nuts ,just get out of the way and let a real hand work,dont want them tripping over you!
 
Lanse,Adecco Vandalia Ohio has a job for MIG and TIG welder on stainless steel,sounds like you have to pass a test and read blueprints,for 13.50 per hour at Vandalia Ohio.THere are several others,I only looked at 3,and the first one plainly said high school diploma or GED which could be a problem for you?I think Adecco is one of those temp agencies so they probably could care less if you have a High School diploma or not.If that will work for you maybe you can get a few weeks at 13.50 per hour? Then if by then you are 18,save you up about a thousand.Maybe there is somebody you can pay to get an apprentice job welding.That might not be enough.Unless you know somebody,it would be rare if you get an apprentice job just out of the blue.You will probably have to bribe somebody.
 
Trucker, I think you needed to read Lanse's previous posts a little more carefully. This wasn't a work experience through the school. It was a job that the employer came to the school looking for workers. Lanse was told it was a welding apprenticeship with a pipe welder by the person doing the hiring. Then this same person couldn't give Lanse a straight answer when Lanse asked if he'd be doing any welding. Lanse had already asked other supervisors and was told there'd be no welding work at all. ANYBODY in Lanse's shoes would have been really pi$$ed in that situation. Since when do you have to be 18 to work or start an apprenticeship? Lots of people graduate and need a job before they're 18. I thought you could work part time when your 14 and full time when your 16? Lanse will make a good welder. He just needs to be given the chance by a respectable employer.
 
I went to work in a welding shop at 17 arranged by my high school trade center, (work experience) I was suppose to only work 39-hours a week, and 1-hour in school, but being as the job was about 30-miles one way from my school, the school waved that rule for me. I started my apprenticeship at 17. I don't remember anybody saying I was too young.
 
A MIG and TIG on stainless job is too advanced for Lanse right now. Nothing against Lanse, stainless just requires a little more skill than Lanse has right now. Lanse could check with employment agencies. Some companies prefer to go through them when looking for new hires. Some agencies specialize in trades positions as well. If a place is busy, they could take on a new apprentice out of the blue. Another place Lanse could check is the local vocational school that trains apprentices. Often employers place adds for workers here because they know they're getting the right schooling.
 
I got out of school early to start an apprenticeship at 17 too. Only bad thing was it was in 1981 right before the huge recession. We have an industrial community up here(Nisku) that is 95% oilfield related that was a ghost town for a few years with dozens of companies going under. Minimun schooling requirement was grade 9 but you had to pass an entrance exam if your marks weren't high enough. I've never heard you had to be 18, just the legal working age.
 
Well thats who should have stayed and dismantled the ductwork;the HVAC appretice. Next time tell them I'll be in the mens trailer waiting for my welding test. Most of the guys that responded that you wimped out may not be skilled labor.Give 'em back the five buck hard hat and move on . You could tell from the first day it was a laborers job. Thats fine but you are a weldor not a laborer. Move on -smart move. Okay some say you are a kid wannabe weldor but once you pass the test it doesnt matter if your a first year apprentice or not you work welding not breathing old ductwork dust.
 
As far as I know you have to be 18 to be an apprentice.You would have to have a High School diploma for nearly any good job doing anything.There are jobs you can do before you are 18 like maybe be a cashier at a grocery store or lots of jobs,but they go quick and it helps to know somebody.The way things are now they are probably few and far between and apprentice jobs are probably not very easy to get,especially if you havent even graduated yet..Especially now.I said he should have quit once he wasnt going to weld,but he should have walked up to the man who hired him or the boss or somebody and told him he was quitting.
Yes he will make a good welder if thats what he wants to do.Ive seen lots of people like him who didnt like it after they tried it for a while.Others wouldnt do anything else.
I have to remind you that we only have his side of the story,most of which came from a kid who was working where he was.
If he was hired as a laborer,thats one thing,if they told him he was going to weld,they would have given him a welding test.I havent had a job yet they didnt give you a welding test for.Even working for the same company where I had a job welding,they would give you a test for different jobs.So that would work for one clue is if you get a welding test before they hire you.Another is they always said what you would do,like fit stuff or help a welder or just weld.Also read prints.Also whether or not they expected you to know this stuff or if they would teach you.But at a union place I ran a drill press and also a burning table,other guys ran a punch and a shear and we were all welders.You could bid for different jobs and try them out for a while first.
I dont know much about an apprenticeship because I never got into one even though I signed up for welding,heavy equipment and electrician.I dint find out until years later that I might have got in if I bribed somebody.You can sign up for all kinds of things,but unless you know somebody or have lots of money to bribe somebody,you usually dont just get right in.Anyway you can work if they will let you.With as many unemployed as there are now,good luck too!There are probably 18 year olds left over from last year who still havent got a job yet.
 
Sure and don't forget that common courtesy is of no concern to anyone in this day and age. And the lack of it does not even come to mind to anyone writing checks for the people working for a company. They don't care about the charter of the people they hire and promote. Right!

Common courtesy and discussing what the job was thought to be with the people that do the hiring not some of the other hired help including foreman before walking off the job is almost always rewarded or rewarding in some way.

Being forthright and friendly with the owner, president or CEO is not brown nosing it is shows respect and could point to another job of his liking. You will never know if you dont try.

You think company owners don't talk to other owners. When they talk do you think skilled people that they need in their company never is discussed? I was talking to another Plastic factory owner and told him I was looking for a foreman for second shift. He said that a person from my area had talked to him and he thought it would be to far for him to drive. The next day he faxed me a copy of his application and I was able to hire him.

You just think there is no record for one day.
When someone is here for one hour I have to list them and pay workers comp. I have to send out a W-2 which goes into the State and Federal government. He may not list it but if I was to check I would know what day and how long.

I am the one also shaking my head at the people that would advise a young man not to man up and talk to the top people in a company about a problem rather than walking away.

I have given people their walking papers and when they came to me with their side of the story and after further checking of the facts put them back to work. If they had not came to me directly they would have had a firing on their record.

When someone walks out without a word I mark them the next day as a no show and the fourth day I mark them as terminated. So they are on my books for four days. My written company policy is that a person is terminated after three days without a call.
I have been called into hearings over these types of things and have never lost one. One time the court made me take them every employee file for the past two years that were working or had worked. Our detailed documentation on every employee won that case. Since 1976 I have had many good employees and my share of bad employees. I don't remember all the good ones but I do remember the bad ones.
I hired people in my job before starting my own company in 1976. At 73 I still remember the bad ones from that time. Maybe not all the names but sure remember the deeds.
 
I've been an employee and a employer, I've only read one side of the story here. Toughen up, wait till da dog,daughter and your wife are PG and you had your nuts clipped 10 years ago!!!!
 
sorry son, you took a job (if they lied to you or not). you simply walked off and did not tell anyone. man up and tell the boss that the job is not what you thought it would be and that you would finish the week and resign. otherwise you come cross as a quitter and a whiner in my book. and if i were your instructor until you talked to the boss and resigned i would promise you that if anyone called about a job for you that i would tell them that i could not recommend you because i would not be sure you could stick out a job.
 
Like I said before, and maybe after 4 more years of the way things in the US with jobs being paid way lower than ever, since your so young maybe it's time to go where the money is, it used to be hollywood, then Canada, now it's China.You will laugh now but somewhere down the drain what I said will come back in focus,maybe start out with another language.
 
I"ve got to second what DickL says. Also, remember the internet makes the world a very small place. A few years ago, a fella applied to my company that used to live near DickL. On a hunch, I gave Dick a call, guess what, Dick knew him, knew the kid"s reputation, and the kid did not get hired. I"ve done that a few times with others and had the same result. It is a small world, and people do talk.
 
Lanse is pretty straight up and from he says, I believe he was scammed into thinking he was starting a welding apprenticeship. Working somewhere doing welding is not the same as working somewhere in a welding apprenticeship to get your journeyman ticket(s). I tried to look it up but couldn't find an age requirement to start an apprenticeship. I still believe it's only 16. If you were a smart kid and finished school at a younger age, you shouldn't be held back from an apprenticeship till you're 18. You certainly don't have to have lots of money to bribe someone to get an apprenticeship. You've been watching too many bad movies or something. It could be different up because you have to be a registered apprentice or a journeyman to work as welder. Companies don't have much choice but take on apprentice's. There are a few that have non registered apprentices working for them though. If the apprenticeship or labour board found out, I think the company can be fined or repremanded.
 
Several years ago they instituted a federal Freedom of Information and Privacy Act across Canada. What that does is protect peoples privacy, especially employee's. A company can not even mention a person worked there without that person having signed a release to allow the company to give out any information about them. Conversely if an employer talked to a former employer(or anyone that new the applicant)) without telling that employee and getting the OK, the potential employee could sue that employer. Lanse talked directly to the person who told him he would be starting a welding apprenticeship and the weasel couldn't even give him a straight answer! Lanse worked one day and this weasel would have to be really stupid to not know he deliberately mislead Lanse and Lanse might not appreciate it. Maybe just maybe Lanse gave the guy a bit of his own medicine? The guy can't be that surprised. It's Lanse's first job, give him a break. He's not the one that lied.
 
I think you all are making a big thing out of nothing. It was a sh!t job at a sh!t company. I've probably had half adozen just like it. Those places have a revolving door policy and don't really care. Lanse will remember this long after the guy that lied to him will. Chances are he don't even remember his name by now. 1,2,5, ten years it won't matter a lick about that one day. trust me I know
 
I"m not taking sides, but just pointing out like DickL, that taking the high road isn"t always easy, but it is the right thing to do.

I"ve known Lanse since he"s been on here and have corresponded by email. I think a lot of Lanse and think he is a good kid, but he could have handled this better. Again, as Dick said, there will be people on that job that will remember Lanse down the road he may cross paths with them in the future. Their opinion has been formed. One of them may have thought much higher of Lanse had he talked to the boss, simply said this job isn"t what I thought it would be, I will finish out the week for you. As others have stated, we have only heard one side of the story, so we need to keep that in mind. It sounds like maybe too many were involved in lining up this job and the details got muddled as they were handed down.

I know Dick thinks highly of Lanse and redid a head for one of Lanse"s tractors gratis.
 
Well Dave
You didn't learn the lesson either.
Such a pity! Now I see why you always got the worst jobs where ever you worked. Maybe someday you will learn to see past your nose. There is a lesson to be learned in everything. You just have to be smart enough to learn it.

Anybody that claims they have never lied is in fact a liar.

Now stop blowing smoke up Lanse's @$$ so his head will clear.

Scott
 
Obviously was a non union shop. Never heard of a welding apprenticeship or a pipe welder apprenticeship. If I were you I would be checking out your local building trades unions. If you want to weld get in with the pipefitters or ironworkers. This is the time of year when they start taking apprentices.
Lastly, when you are a starting apprentice there are many times when you won't be doing anything but grunt work. It's part of the deal. Get used to it.
 
Lanse I want you to think about some things. Many like, Stick welder, think that its fine to just walk off a job and not come back. I will tell you, as someone that has hired people and fired them too ,that a walk off means that you would not even get your foot in the door at most places.

Will this job cause that? Probably not. They seem like not the best company. My earlier post was more about your reaction to a bad deal. How are you going to handle the next thing that is not to your liking??? You did not handle this one the best.

Also you spouted off about "calling out" the foreman or supervisor. In most "real" world jobs if you do that you will be unemployed pronto. Plus might have a police record too. Most companies take treats very seriously. The day of having it out with someone are over for several reasons. First and foremost is that you are no longer in high school. Second with everyone law suit happy companies run from anyone that is confrontational.

I wish you well. You are working to get there. Just engage your thinking cap and act differently the next time. Enough said about this.
 
I dont even know what you are talking about.You can get a job as a welder and there is no apprenticeship needed.You can get into a UNION and become a Pipefitter or a Boilermaker and be an apprentice if you want to,but those jobs are hard to get.I guarantee that you wont walk in there and get a job welding,being an apprentice,or anything else unless you either bribe somebody or unless somebody gets you in.Maybe some time if they need a lot of new welders,maybe you would get lucky and they would hire you,maybe if you went to some school that got you on,and there are probably other ways,but you do not have to have a bunch of "tickets"or be able to even weld as far as that goes,to get a job as a welders helper or maybe even a welder if they need one bad enough they will teach you how to run jet rod OR a MIG in a couple of weeks at the most.
I could care less when I was 18 about being an apprentice,I wanted money and a job,and thats how most people are.I did sign up but never got a call.Its doubtful that you can get a job as a welder unless you are 18.I wont say you cant,but I will say it would be hard.Now you might if you can get a job with a temp agency,I think you still have to be 18 maybe.
Then if you went to a private shop somewhere,you might get a job at 17,but they probably wont let you weld much except when they need an extra welder.Mostly just a flunky at 17.You might work for a farmer.I dont know what you could do at 17 for sure.Im about certain that you wont get a job as an apprentice at 17 nowdays.Maybe if your Dad owned the place.Maybe if they needed a welder and thats the only way they could get one,but I doubt they ever have to worry much about getting a welder where they would take a 17 year old over experience.
Maybe you can get an apprentice like job for some private shop somehow,or maybe there are apprentice jobs,but Ill just bet that Ohio is not that much different than Missouri and they will have places where you can get a job welding that you dont have to be an apprentice.Plus they have a couple of welding schools here,and they maybe can get you an apprentice job working for the State or the Government or something like that.
Now where you are and where we are is a lot different Im sure.Also unless you are on the Coast,there is not much need for that kind of stuff around here.There is some need for it,but like I already said,a 17 year old does not have much chance at it.The state uses real good welders to repair bridges,and there are probably cities and other stuff that use these welders,but I dont have any idea how you get on with them.You say yourself that you are in an area where they weld for oil rigs,well I havent been there so I dont know what you mean by an"oil rig"or why it would need a high classed welder,maybe for a pipeline,but they can pick and choose who they want.They dont need to hire some 17 year old to do this kind of stuff,but they might.
There are all kinds of shops.Specialty shops that build cars and motorcycles and they do all kinds of welding,but you dont have to be an apprentice.Maybe some welding school wouldnt hurt.There are factories where they make truck beds and Trailers and you dont have to be an apprentice to work there.There are factories that make structural steel and you dont have to be an apprentice to work in those either.THere are even factories that make farm equipment,but dont look to be doing very good,but still making farm equipment.I guess you are all apprentice stuff up there,but its not that way here.To make the big money you have to be in a union and do the apprentice deal,maybe thats different in some places,but there are lots of welding jobs where its not necessary,especially for smaller specialty companies and small factories that teach their own welders and promote from their own people.
 
Where did I say it's fine to just walk off a job and not come back? I said that in Lanse's case he was justified in his actions. The employer has no ethics or common decency but Lanse has to act like he's just been meeting with the queen? It's not a criminal offence to tell a boss or supervisor you don't like what they've done. Calling someone out is not the same as threatening them. How's Lanse going to handle the next situation? All he has to do is ask for a detailed job description before he accepts the job. Lanse went to a job under false pretenses(sp), was quite upset, questioned supervisors and then the person who hired him, got a bunch of mumbo jumbo and didn't return. That's it. Many others would have done the same thing under the same circumstances. I know of instances where the liar might have ended up with a bloody nose. Why the double standard for employers and employee's? The only thing Lanse didn't do was say, You lied to me and I quit. Maybe this lying idiot didn't deserve that courtesy?
 
"Never heard of a welding apprenticeship"
You must not work in the trades. You don't have to be in a union to be an apprentice. Apprentice welder is as common as an apprentice carpenter or plumber or electrician. For someone in the know, pipe welder apprentice isn't a seperate apprenticeship. In order to get into pipe welding you have to start off general welding first and then go into pipe welding as your specialty. Just like Dr's who specialize in a specific area.
 
You don't have to be 18 to work as welder or start an apprenticeship any more than you need to be 18 to work at McDonalds! If you want to work as a welder and make the good money and get the good jobs, you need to apprentice and get your ticket. If you want to do pressure pipe welding, you need tickets for that and you can't even qualify until you have your journeyman ticket or a special ticket that is only issued to apprentices that can pass the weld test. You could be the best welder on the planet but if you show up at a pipeline job or vessel shop and don't have a copy of a valid pressure ticket, they won't even let you attempt the pre employment weld test.
 
It sure sounds like Lanse and the other students were deliberately mislead so this company could get labourers to do the crappiest jobs. I'd also be willing to bet that this company has a high turn over rate with the way they treat employee's. It's also highly possible the other people that worked there couldn't blame Lanse and the others for leaving.
 
I"ll reserve judgment on the company until I hear their side of the story, otherwise, we"re only hearing half the story, from a teenage point of view. I have 3 teens of my own and know that their view isn"t always reality. Lanse"s story maybe 100% correct, but then again, it may not be.
 
(quoted from post at 04:20:26 06/09/11) I"ll reserve judgment on the company until I hear their side of the story, otherwise, we"re only hearing half the story, from a teenage point of view. I have 3 teens of my own and know that their view isn"t always reality. Lanse"s story maybe 100% correct, but then again, it may not be.
Click to expand...

That's takin the sissy way out.......Ypou's sposedta jump in there and bash em like the rest of em............... No room for clear thinkin round here mister.......
 
You bet and if you apply at my place you sign that Federal Form giving me permission to check or you can go apply some where else.

An employer has to dot his I and cross his Tee's or it costs money down the road. It is a pain and another file cabinet which has to go into the cost of goods. So if you want a job you sign it and that Federal act likes so many others does nothing but cost the consumer more for what they buy. I see though that you feel protected and I hope yall are happy with your protection.
 
A lot of these costly employee feel good protection acts that only causes more paper work which raises the cost of manufacturing and makes it harder to compete with China. Those and other government regulations that do the same causes the materials we use in manufacturing to cost more as well. This goes back a long ways. 12 years ago (IF) I would have had the money to put in two or more years worth of my tire material I could have bought it at 1/4th the cost I was paying at the time from Russia. Partly due to the fact that you all hard working tax payers were paying the freight thru one of our open the markets to the outside world Federal foreign trade acts. I hear it is called an (unintended consequence) (unintended consequences has our USA people that are out of work or in part time jobs rather than full employment to be right at 25%
 
No he told you right.In the USA there are apprentice programs in UNION shops where you can do that,probably other ways,but you dont have to be an apprentice to weld,or be in the Union for that matter.If you get a union job,and they train you on the job,there is no apprentice to it.You can work your way up,or even switch and do some other job.In the line of work that you do,whatever that is,maybe you are right.There are so many more kinds of welding jobs that what you do is not that much used in the USA.Also you wont just walk in the office and say you want to be an apprentice and get a job most usually.You will have to wait in line,and its a long line.You would be better off getting a job welding somewhere so you can make some money.
 
Some of you guys have no idea what an apprenticeship actually is. There are places where you can weld where you don't need to be an apprentice, however if you want to become a full on qualified welder, you need to apprentice. If your a tradesman in a union you will absolutely have to go through an apprenticeship! If your just welding wheel barrows together you probably don't need to be an apprentice. Going through an apprenticeship and becoming a journeyman means that not only have you had on the job training but also formal schooling from an accredited technical institute. There is a lot more to being a welder than just knowing how to strike an arc. A lot of companies take on apprentice's when they're busy. Obviously it's a lot easier when the economy is booming.
 
Pat and mike went to work in a saw mill. After working a short time Pat yelled out OUCH very lould. Mike said, what happened Pat? Pat answered back, I don't know Mike, I just reached in here and OOPS there went another one.

It would be best not to send Lanse out into the saw mill of life without some caution rather than say go ahead it won't bite you.
 
You don't sign it for the prospective employer. You have to sign it for previous employers to give out information about you. Do you really think that someone is going to list a bad job they had for 1 day on a resume or a place where they know the boss will give them a bad reference? Maybe a place is mad that an employee left and even though they were an excellent employee, they'd get a bad reference. When people give reference's they tend to list people that would give good ones. The privacy act is actually one of the better ones and it isn't what makes things cost more.
 
Lanse,here is a bunch of jobs from a place called express employment professionals jobs.There are welding jobs in there too.Do you know how to read blueprints?If not you need to learn,its not hard.
http://www.expresspros.com/feeds/industrial-jobs/
 
Good advise.
I took a drafting course after high school which aloud me to quickly put my ideas on paper so others could see them with understanding. Then you can not only read them but can draw them as well. I don't know if they have changed to CAD or not but I still have a drafting table here behind me that I use regularly. I can very quickly find out on paper if my idea will work in metal, plastic or wood without any cost other than time and lead. I have CNC machinery but never bought a CAD program. They can be and are programed at the machine.
 
I think you put too much stock in what you call an apprentice.Yes they have that,no most people dont do it,the reason is way more people apply for those jobs that there are jobs.Just a while back there was 10,000 people who showed up to put an application in for 50 jobs they had open up,I think it was working for a city around here a couple of years ago.I dont know how it is where you are,obviously it must be easy to be an apprentice in whatever it is that you do.There is nothing wrong with being an apprentice,nothing wrong with getting in the Union either,nothing wrong with going to welding school.But there are lots of jobs where you dont have to be an apprentice,or even in a union,or go to welding school,and you have to be somewhat better than able to strike an arc to qualify because you will have to take a welding test.
I would say that the best alternative here would be to go to welding school and try and get on with some company that pays good after that,maybe through the school.
 
One of the big benefits of taking on apprentices is that they learn how to read welding blueprints and welding symbols in their formal training as well as many other of the theory aspects of welding. Welding blueprints can be very complex. Knowing how to read them gives you a huge advantage over someone that doesn't. Welding symbols are a whole other can of worms by themselfs. Trying to learn on your own would take a month of years.
 
Most people that want to pursue a welding career go through an apprenticeship. You learn how to read to blueprints and welding symbols for one thing. More and more people working in the trades are required to be licensed. Saying you don't need to be a licensed welder is like saying you don't need to be a licensed gas fitter or licensed electrician when working on anything beyond the most basic stuff. It's not that I put too much stock in the apprenticeship program, it's that you don't put enough in it. Possibly because you've never gone through it so don't know what it involves. You learn a lot more than you ever could on your own or even on the job. Having a journeyman ticket means something to most people. You will never get on the big projects($$$) as a welder without being an apprentice or licensed welder. Never! Ask Puddles if you don't believe me.
 
What! Just calm down! What part of what I said dont you get? Those jobs arent easy to get in the Midwest.I said go to welding school and see if you can get a job through them.Of course there are welding schools and then there are welding schools.However there are union apprentice programs for lots of jobs.Some would be carpenter,meatcutter,welder,pipefitter,boilermaker,truck driver,electrician,heavy equipment operator and lots more.I would pick all that I thought I might like and sign up for all of them,and then go get a job somewhere while I was waiting.Thats not to say that you cant make just as much money doing any of those jobs some other way.Actually if you go out on your own you can make more money than working for somebody.So dont try and feed us this crap where you have to be an apprentice because you dont.Yes its good if you can do it,but its not easy to get on at one of those places.I have no idea what they do on the coast where they build ships and stuff,maybe its easier to be an apprentice there,but as corrupt as everything is,there is no telling what you can do if you pass a welding test.If you can pass a welding test,and they need a welder,you can get a job.Apprentice or not.Nothing wrong with being an apprentice but specialty welding would probably make you more money and if you can weld with a TIG you can make lots of money.They give you tests,if you pass them you can weld on jobs,its just that simple.How you get to where you can pass the test is not as important if you can get in there and take the test to start with.If you have your own welder and can get on some good jobs and know what you are doing you can make lots of money.
 
I have a son-n-law, (youngest daughter's husband) he completed his rigging apprenticeship little over a year ago at the Trident submarine base. He started there on some kind of pre-apprentice program while taken all their entrance / placement tests. Once he completed some of the test the crane operator shop started talking to him about going to work as a crane operator, and not going through the apprenticeship. Well the journeymen money got in his eyes having a young family and just having a new home built. But he started asking around and doing some research, and found out in their system if you don't go through their apprenticeship you can only advance so far, but if you complete an apprenticeship in theory you can be base commander. This kid is very book smart, but he grew up without a dad! When he first started coming around he didn't know the difference from a Phillips head screw driver, and a claw hammer. WOW, what a change in this kid over the last few years! :lol:
 
It's your perogative to quit a job, just as it's your perogative to take one. But, you owe it to YOURSELF to quit a job just as professionally as you applied for it. Do you think you did?

Here's the thing about a lot of $hit jobs- you are being evaluated based on how you wade through the $hit, and your ability to walk on it or sink in it determines what happens to you next. DOn't be surprized if those "slightly darker skinned" dudes from Cincinnati aren't professional welders before you.

Apprentice = helper, first and foremost. I've had a pile of mechanics earning 6 figures now out here that laced scrap tires and swept shop floors for the first 3 months of their "apprenticeship".
Long before the ASE test, there was the broom test- ya better use it rather than step over it!

This isn't life ending- but it's a life lesson. Hopefully, you'll land in the right place and display the right stuff the next time. That's how careers are made.
 
You'll keep keep it going. You have shown here you have 100% more than most people of any age. Keep chasing the dream, you'll get there.
 
Here you sign the form that lets the prospective employer send it to anyone they think they need to check with.
 
one thing I would REALLY like to know,honestly.IF the super on that job had said, when these boys showed up,"we cant really start you out welding,you boys need to go sit in that air conditioned construction shack and drink soda pop until we can get you set up in a few weeks"..i wonder how many of them would have run backwards,honestly and truly? think they would have been mad enough to quit?would they have gone to work the next day?
 
Perhaps if you had gone through an apprenticeship you'd have a much better understanding of what it is? In Alberta you can NOT advertise as a welder unless you have a journeyman ticket. Yes, some people try to get away without a ticket but none of the oilfield or larger contractors will hire some guy that just decided to put a welder on the back of a truck and call himself a welder. Some trades don't require you to be licensed or a registered apprentice but welding(in Alberta) does. Imagine if Joe Blow thought he could weld, put a welder on a truck and welded someones trailer hitch, that didn't know any better, and it broke causing injuries. Joe would be in a lot of trouble. Apprenticeships aren't exclusive to unions. You can't test for TIG job unless you have the proper tickets in the first place. Anything to do with pressure work, you have renew ALL your tickets every 2 years in order to do that particular type of welding and every time you go to a different job or job site, you have to do a job test anyway. Some welders have over 20 different pressure tickets. There are a few, very few, people that do specialty welding that don't have tickets. I know a guy that specializes in aluminum welding that does this. He fixes tons of diesel tanks for semi's and does motorcycle and snowmobile repairs including very thin aluminum radiators. That's a specialty in itself. He knows his limitations though and will refuse work that has to be done by licensed welders. He is one of very few that is skilled enough to do this. He does not advertise as a welder and gets the majority of his work through word of mouth. Mostly small jobs but he is always busy. Do some more research before you start arguing about something you know nothing about because you've never done it.
 
Well since that never happened hypothesizing after the fact is kind of pointless isn't it? A more appropriate question would be, Had the employer been completely honest about what the actual job was, how many(welding) students would have accepted? He lied in order to dupe a bunch of students into doing the grunt work on a job site. To do this at the school makes it even more despicable!
 
Puddles, do you think you would have been hired for all those bridge and heavy construction jobs you worked on if you weren't an apprentice/ journeyman? Do you think you would have ever been made foreman or project super without having gone through an apprenticeship to get your ticket(s)? Do you think you could have learned everything you have on your own with no schooling what-so-ever? Do you think Trucker has any idea what an apprenticeship actually is? I'll bet the answer is the same for all these questions.
 
Oh yeah, it's amazing how many people don't go through an apprenticeship here! The last 15-years the public school system as taken over most of the apprenticeships, one reason, is to stop the good ol boy network! There were over 200 applicants on the list to take the entrance exam to get into the apprenticeship I went through. Being as my dad was a big shot in the union, and he had a letter from his employer stating I had a guaranteed job for at least 30-days I went right to the front of the line! That's exactly what the public school system put a stop to! One of my best friends started right out of high school as a union labor. He switched unions, we worked as partners, foremen, and even as superintendents on the same jobs for over 20-years with several different contractors. He is a project manager now! He never went through an apprenticeship. I must say he his the smartest man I ever met without an education tho! Things are done differently here in the states! Form what I've read over the last 10-years I've been on the Internet, Alberta has to be one of the toughest places on earth for weldors! Around here they have this system for certifying structural weldors. Biggest joke I ever seen in my life! The Navy won't accept it, you have to take their tests, and they watch you do it. Anyway this WABO card, once you pass the tests for what ever process, all you have to do until Christ returns is have your foreman, (or buddy) sign it, saying you've been doing top quality work for a certain time period! What a joke! I fired a guy on this job, well I actually fired 12 guys on this project! Every weld was to be UT'd. Guys would walk away from a weld with a pin hole in it the size of your little finger nail. I fired one guy for running flux core on the wrong polarity. Had the nerve to tell me polarity meant nothing in welding! Couldn't get him off my job fast enough!


 
I worked in a plant where we built frames for Ford Explorers. Odds are about 1 in 3 that if you have ever owned, ridden in, or driven a 2002-2005 Explorer 4-door, I had a hand in building that exact frame. Most of the long welds were made by robots; most of the welders in the plant only made 1"-2" tacks, to hold parts to the frames until the robots could make the major welds. There was no apprenticeship for welding there; you became a welder after a 5-day, 40-hour MIG welding class at a local community college during your orientation. Apprenticeships only existed for skilled trades, such as maintenance and weld techs.

The union there was the UAW. The week I was hired, they took applications and tested for their skilled trades apprenticeships, so I missed out on that round when I was hired in late 2000. When they tested again in 2004, over 300 of a 600-person workforce applied. When the tests and the interviews were over, 19 people were on the list as having qualified for the apprenticeship program. By the time the plant closed in June 2005, only 5 had begun their apprenticeships. I was #6 on the list of 19. Apprentices could become weld techs or maintenance people, and it took 7 years to become a journeyman. There was classroom training involved as well as OJT. BUT...for this particular apprenticeship program...you had to be employed at the plant to begin with. So I waited 4 years working on the line, hanging trailer hitches and building side rails for rear frame modules, to get a chance to apply to an apprenticeship program...and then the plant closed before I could get into the program, afer I was accepted. Oh, well...

BTW...most of the folks in skilled trades, including the apprentices, got into other manufacturing facilities. Some weld techs I know went as far as Alabama to stay in their trade. From what I can see, the market for welders, at least in a manufacturing setting, is getting smaller, as robots are doing more and more of it. The future, as it is today, is probably more in becoming a weld tech and doing the PLC programming of the robots. Oh, there will still be welders needed to build bridges and barges and tanks and pressure vessels; but any process that CAN be automated and be done by a robot, eventually will.
 
I bet if he'd said "well boys theres no welding for a few weeks until we finish this demolition" that Lanse and the other kid would have stuck around. Even if there wasn't any welding at that point at least he'd (the boss) have been honest about the short term. Honest about SOMETHING.
 
Everybody has their own style of managing. I always tried to be as honest as I could be with my people. I always tried to give them as much information as I had. I would let them know if we were loosing our azz, but I would avoid telling them how much money we were making, I'd just say we're doing fine, but we can do better, go faster!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:
 
The employer in this case is no better than someone who lies to them on their application. They lied to him so they deserve the same treatment that they propose to give someone who lies to them.
 
In some ways it's ridiculous here too. It might be easier to start an apprenticeship because you have to to work as a welder but it's a big cash cow in some instances. In the last 10 years or so they've mandated that structural welders have to pass qualification tests in order to work on steel buildings and other structures. That's not a bad idea in itself. A lot of shops that didn't really require it now have it place because their customers think it makes for a better product and the CWB(Canadian Welding Bureau)really pushes for it. They're the ones who it goes through and make money off it. In a lot of cases there is no improvement in the quality of work because it was already there. To get CWB certified you have to pay $100 per position per welding process. The CWB doesn't even accept that when you go through your apprenticeship, the test for the 1st year(maybe more)is the exact same test. So even if you pass the apprenticeship test, you still have to pay $100 and take the same test again for the CWB. This can add up. 4 positions for stick, 4 positions for flux-core and you're at $800. Sometimes an employer will pay for the tests though. What's really stupid is an apprentice iron worker with no welder schooling can take the test and if they pass, weld on structural steel. That goes against all the rules they've set up for welders, like you have to be a registered apprentice to work as a welder. It also discredits the welding apprenticeship program. Alberta has some of the highest standards in the world when it comes to welder training and qualifications but the CWB has decided they can change the rules to their liking. Even the apprenticeship program isn't as intense as it used to be. Still a good program though. I went to trade school in high school and could have 300 hours taken off each year of my required hours on the job. Instead of 1800 hours a year, I only needed 1500. Now you only need about 1500 in the first place and if you took a welding course in high school and got approved for the RAP program (Registered Apprentice Program)where you go for work experience, you can challenge the first year apprenticeship. That's a slap in the face to all the welders that had to go through the first year schooling and complete the required hours. I worked at a place that had a RAP student for the summer. He was taking his second year of welding at a regular high school. He had a fancy big bucks auto helmet, he polished, that he was really proud of and got upset when you told him it wouldn't make him a better welder. He tried to show off his welding skills and couldn't figure out why his bead didn't look right. He said the machine wasn't working right. I took a look at the machine and he was burning a 1/8" 7018 at the heat required for a cold 3/32". Knowing when your heat is right for a flat fillet weld is pretty basic yet this guy gets the opportunity to bypass his first year schooling. That makes no sense but then it was the Gov't. that put the program in place.:wink: Probably because there are so many welding apprentices here and the training schools have waiting lists to get in.
 
Exactly! An employer does not "buy" the services of an employee. They pay for the employee's services and there's a big difference. Employee's are not slaves and don't have to put up with BS. This place that lied to Lanse got what they deserved. They probably already had a bad reputation and that's why they had to lie to get employee's. It's not going to destroy Lanse's career like some people think.
 
I'm in Alberta and it's a little different here because most of the economy relies on the oilfield and there's lots of welding involved in the field and in fab shops. When the price of oil goes down, there's usually big lay offs.
 
Once again you are talking about stuff that is not the same here as where you are at.You have to know somebody to even get a job as an apprentice here.Nothing wrong if you can get on that way,but most people cant.So then you get a good job some other way.Probably the best welders here are one who went to welding school and work for the State.They probably have a certificate,which makes them a certified welder.Thats how they get in the door,then they take a test,and if they pass it they might get hired depending on who is ahead of them that knows somebody and how many jobs there are.Every time I got a welding job,I took a welding test.I didnt even get done taking the test and was hired so watch that bad mouth of yours.Unless you are working for NASA or something where its real critical,I dont know of any jobs around here like that,you dont need a "ticket"to weld anything.You can go rent a building and for 25 dollars buy a business license and maybe another 25 dollars to the county and be in business whether you have a welder on a truck or an ancient Lincoln buzzbox and weld all day long.In fact there is a place about 3 blocks from where I live that did that very thing years ago.
In the city you might get into something where you would need a special certification to weld something,maybe in a maintenance job where you need a special skill to weld some stuff related to food service,or other things I cant think of right now,but I know a guy who does that and he hasnt been to welding school either.
So as far as tickets and qualifying every 2 years and that stuff,I have never even heard of that.You dont even have to go through an apprentice deal if you can pass the welding test and when I was 19 I was a lot better of a welder than Lanse is now. I was 19 in 1974,and I took welding tests and passed them and did as good or better than some of the old men who had been welding for years.In the USA it is different,at least as far as any welding Ive been around.The places where I worked at are gone now.But there are still places like those places around.You could do just as good here by going to welding school and getting a job from that,if you could.It wouldnt take you four years to make the good money either,but they would probably pay you better for four years of experience.I know I would ask for more than a beginner if I was to look for a welding job.
Now while I may not be the high classed welder that you are,I dont need to be.I dont know how to weld with a TIG but I bet if I had just a little practice and knew about setting it and all of that I could get a good paying job welding with a TIG.Plus I know there are better welders than me.I can weld better than lots of people can though.Practically every time I weld something since 1980 its been to fix something somebody else welded that broke. So I really dont appreciate what you say sometimes.
Now Im not going to go out and weld on a pipeline either.But Im not some shade tree mechanic guy who doesnt know what hes talking about either.
You really do put too much stock in that crap you tell people.I dont mean to be rude but it gets rather annoying,when we know things are different in the USA,and you keep babbling about these tickets and stuff.Most people who weld have never even heard of the stuff that you talk about.
Also I think that you think because my handle is trucker that means I dont know how to weld.I did 5 years welding long before I ever drove a truck.Im not like most truckers you ever saw or knew either.I get things done.Whatever it takes.Ive forgot more about welding than most farmers ever knew.
So welding in the USA is a lot different than what you do.Nothing wrong with an apprentice deal but most people cant get in it,its as simple as that.You have to know somebody,bribe somebody,or be rich and buy your way in,but that only gets you in the door and still doesnt guarantee that you will get to be an apprentice.
Where they need a welder with some kind of skills,they usually try and get them from a welding school or at least that are certified.Besides that,they give welding tests,and if you pass you might get a job if you are lucky.Passing a welding test does not mean you will get hired.You will probably have to spend some time welding at some place thats not top pay and work your way up. I didnt do that.I went to turning wrenches instead since where I was at they needed mechanics and not so much welders.I know they have welding stuff all around the coasts that are different welding than what I did.Even underwater welding.But I didnt want to do that stuff.That doesnt mean I dont know anything and that I cant weld.I may not know all there is to know like you think that you do,but I know the Midwest real well.I dont think you know anything about the USA especially the Midwest.
 
Don't hold it against me because they have very high standards here. I was at the the new apprentice training facility today to ask some technical questions. I asked about the requirements to start an apprenticeship in Alberta. Most apprenticeships need a minimum grade 11 but welding still only requires grade 9. That may change too. As far as age, it's 16 for any trade.

It's kind of sad they don't have higher standards there and have incentives for employers to take on new apprentices. The Gov't. here actually had a program like that here. It might still be in place. I know that some oilfield companies have sourced rigs and other equipment from the US in order to save money. A lot of times it ended up costing more because it had to be beefed up and modified because it didn't hold up. Some equipment from the US is the highest quality as well. It just depends. Alberta is very heavy in oilfield, pipelines and pressure vessels so maybe that's why they require such high standards for their welders.
 
Dave and T40, you are in different places. What the law requires there are two different things.

Dave, the guy that does the aluminum work, it sounds like he is able to do a lot more than he does, but doesn't do a lot of what he can, because the law says he needs a paper hanging on the wall to be able to do what he is capable of.
 
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