Ford 2n electrical issue

[JWA]

Yes it had a 12v conversion done . Normal ground to ground . When the starter turned over for a brief second it sparked and the ground terminal at the battery . My testing method was with a fluke meter with the negative lead to ground terminal and the positive lead touching anything that should be ground . When I was doing that it was showing 12 volts . The alternator looks like a GM 1 wire

If it sparked the cable must be loose, the only way it will spark is jumping a gap. I suspect that this was your problem to begin with.IMHO.

 

[Jim L WA]

You said, Ok I got a weird one . Tractor was running fine Then all of the sudden nothing . It won’t even try to crank .
That is almost 100 percent a battery connection issue!
With today's batteries, one post is a little smaller than the other. Make sure your cable clamp is actually clamping down on the smaller post and your not just tightening the bolt.

 

[Eman85]

Ok I got a weird one . Tractor was running fine Then all of the sudden nothing . It won’t even try to crank . It’s like it’s completely dead . I tried to jump the tractor off with a set of cables the starter would spin but even spraying starter fluid in the carb nothing . So today I redid all the of the wiring with new wire . I tried to start it i, the starter turned over for a brief second then sparked and the negative terminal . I started checking things and I am showing 12v on the grounds . So some how the positive is getting feed to ground . I disconnected all the plugs on the spark plugs , disconnected the positive wire going to the resistor, disconnected the hot wire going to the coil . Is there something in the distributor the could send 13v to ground . I am at a loss . Any help would be greatly appreciate.

There's whole lot going on here. It sounds like a lot of human error going on. Address one problem at a time starting with the starter circuit. Is the tractor's starting circuit wired as it would be from the factory with a neutral safety switch? Is the negative side of the battery going to ground? Once the tractor's starting system works then put a spark tester, a real store bought spark tester, on the end of the spark plug wire and check for spark.

 

[Mad Farmer]

Yes it had a 12v conversion done . Normal ground to ground . When the starter turned over for a brief second it sparked and the ground terminal at the battery . My testing method was with a fluke meter with the negative lead to ground terminal and the positive lead touching anything that should be ground . When I was doing that it was showing 12 volts . The alternator looks like a GM 1 wire

Ground to ground should 0 volts. Switch to ohms, should be near 0 ohms from - bat post to clean surface on the block.

 

[Jim.ME]

Ground to ground should 0 volts. Switch to ohms, should be near 0 ohms from - bat post to clean surface on the block.

With the battery ground cable properly connected on both ends.

It is possible to show low resistance but have a conductor not carry the required amperage, that is where the voltage drop test wore out mentioned can help. Just like using a head light bulb as a test light on a solenoid pull-in circuit when you have voltage, but the solenoid only clicks. The higher amperage load of a headlight bulb will show (dim or go out) a weak circuit that a voltmeter won't show.

 

[Mad Farmer]

With the battery ground cable properly connected on both ends.

It is possible to show low resistance but have a conductor not carry the required amperage, that is where the voltage drop test wore out mentioned can help. Just like using a head light bulb as a test light on a solenoid pull-in circuit when you have voltage, but the solenoid only clicks. The higher amperage load of a headlight bulb will show (dim or go out) a weak circuit that a voltmeter won't show.

Headlight test bulb is a novel idea! Could rig that up with two jumper leads w/alligator clips. Concerning amperage loads, I've had good headlights on a car/truck, but starter still just clicked due to poor connections/grounds. What told the tale was lights would dim when you tried to start. Bad starter can do the same.

For small test lamps I made mine from old motorcycle instrument lights. They popped right out of the speedometer housings and had two pretty long leads I put alligator clips on. Small bulbs are available in 6 and 12V.

 

[Hutch75]

Ok I found two issues , the rubber washer on my amp meter was torn so that was letting 12v go to ground . I also found out the my alternator had an internal short . After disconnecting the amp meter and the alternator no more 12v to ground . With both of those disconnected the tractor fired right up . I should new ones here by this weekend .

 

[Hutch75]

I fully understand you have new parts you just installed. No one wants to think a new part is bad, or that they made some mistake. Unfortunately, the results of the testing you have posted here thus far indicates such is happening here. As much as you may hate the thought, these things must be checked, which is why we are giving you the suggestions we are.

First thing I say is the color of a battery cable means nothing to me; I am used to equipment that uses all black battery cables. I want to know exactly where both ends of a cable connect and refer to them as positive or negative/ground based on where they connect, not the color. You just rewired it. Did you choose to put a red cable on positive side (battery positive to starter switch, not start button) and black on the negative side (battery negative to chassis) for ground? Too many connection mistakes have been made when people only go by cable color when connecting to a battery.

Clamp-on type battery cable terminal ends are not great, best to get battery clamp ends crimped or soldered on. When you said you had a spark at the battery terminal it points to a problem around that area.

You say you cleaned it to bright metal but where is the chassis end of the negative/ground cable connected to the chassis?

I also think you may have positive power wire touching ground or broken insulation on a terminal somewhere to get a voltage reading with everything off or unhooked.

I connected the red wire to the positive side of the battery . I connected the black to the negative side.
I have the positive connected to one side of the starter solenoid. I then have a one positive connected to the other side of the starter solenoid .
I have the negative wire connected to one of the bolts on what I am calling the bell housing of the tractor .

 

[Jim.ME]

Do you actually have an electrically activated solenoid or is it the heavy starter switch that is engaged when the button by the shift lever is pushed? Knowing which you are dealing with and using the correct name is important. There are wiring differences for the two.

There should be a cable (red in your case) from the positive battery post to one side of the solenoid or starter switch. There should be another battery cable from the second heavy post of a solenoid or starter switch to the starter terminal post.

The black (negative) cable being grounded to a bell housing bolt is good.

Have you taken an ohm meter reading on the negative cable? Cable unhooked from both ends and one test lead on each end of the cable the ohm reading should be zero, or close to it.

 

[Hutch75]

My starter switch by the shifter does not work . The switch itself is good but the connect rod going between them will not engage the switch . Someone told me to jb weld a penny on the back side and try that since the rod is from what he said a pain to replace .I do want to get that switch working in the future.
So what is on the tractor now is a 3 pole starter solenoid. One post for the battery , one for the starter and one from a push button on the dash .
I took my meter and did a continuity test on all the wires . That is how I found the rubber washer being torn on the amp meter and the positive post on the back of the alternator was showing continuity to ground when I removed the positive wire off .
I did ohm out the negative cable and got 0 ohms .
So now with both of those out of the system the tractor fires right up no problem and no more 12v to ground .

 

[Hutch75]

Now I got to get back in finding out why I have no oil pressure

 

[Jim.ME]

My starter switch by the shifter does not work . The switch itself is good but the connect rod going between them will not engage the switch . Someone told me to jb weld a penny on the back side and try that since the rod is from what he said a pain to replace .I do want to get that switch working in the future.
So what is on the tractor now is a 3 pole starter solenoid. One post for the battery , one for the starter and one from a push button on the dash .
I took my meter and did a continuity test on all the wires . That is how I found the rubber washer being torn on the amp meter and the positive post on the back of the alternator was showing continuity to ground when I removed the positive wire off .
I did ohm out the negative cable and got 0 ohms .
So now with both of those out of the system the tractor fires right up no problem and no more 12v to ground .

Good, I knew there had to be a short to ground on the positive side for you to get a voltage reading between the battery post and the chassis. There had to be an issue with the battery cable at the negative battery post for it to spark, hopeful you've tightened that up or done something to prevent from it happening again.

Alternators will generally show a path to ground when they are checked not running as you did. That is how the small parasitic drain of an alternator, people talk about, while a unit is setting unused occurs.

 

[Jerry9N]

I would suggest that you post a new thread titled with no oil pressure, or something similar, some of the guys are wonderful mechanic, but might not read an electrical thread. We’re all here to help, someone might have had your exact issue, and recognize the symptom. Good luck!

 

[used red MN]

I did ohm out the negative cable and got 0 ohms .
So now with both of those out of the system the tractor fires right up no problem and no more 12v to ground .

There had to be an issue with the battery cable at the negative battery post for it to spark, hopeful you've tightened that up or done something to prevent from it happening again.

I would like a little more info on what you did to rectify the open circuit of your negative battery cable circuit? Either that or something was left out of your explanation of the tests you were running that showed points on the engine and chassis surfaces as having potential voltage? Hopefully you realize if the negative side of your system had been making a proper connection the wiring that was shorted to ground on the back of the ammeter due to the damaged or missing insulating washer the wires would have been smoking and burning up from the short. Some photos of your setup might help explain some things.
I am glad you got it running! I do agree with Jerry start a new thread on the oil pressure subject.

 

[Hutch75]

Honestly I don’t know . When I got home yesterday. I took every wire off , connected the positive and negative cable and started reconnecting the other cables one by one . I put my meter black lead to the negative terminal and the red lead to my chassis ground . When I connect power to the amp meter the fluke meter showed 12v . So I started checking the amp meter . When I did a continuity test it showed I had continuity from the positive terminal to the housing of the amp meter . Took all the hardware off the amp meter and found the torn washer . I then proceeded to work my way through the rest of the wires and when I finally hooked the last wire up which was the alternator it popped up with 12v to the chassis ground . So I took that lead off checked for continuity and nothing . Hooked the wire back up and got 12v to chassis ground . So this time I took the alternator off the tractor and when I checked for continuity between the positive post to the alternator ground point I got continuity. I was wondering why I wasn’t getting it when it was on the tractor . I started looking and where the alternator bolts up to the tractor everything was covered in rust . I hit the areas with my wire wheel , reinstalled the alternator and what do you know I got continuity from the positive post to the chassis ground point. So the o oh thing I can think of was there was two much rust to make a solid connection. With the amp meter and the alternator o out of the electrical system the tractor fired right up with no issues .

 

[Non-farmer]

Then you still have a hot wire shorted to ground somewhere. Once you remove the alternator and that problem persists, the alternator is not the culprit.

Edit: are you sure the output wire from the alternator is not shorted to ground somewhere? Maybe consider replacing it.

 

[Hutch75]

No the power wire running going to the alternator is brand new and I hadn’t even strapped it down yet . And now there is no more power to ground so I think I have solved the issue . Will find out when the new one shows up