Ford 420 No fuel to injectors

[Blase-On]

Having trouble getting fuel system bled and tractor started after draining fuel system.

So, here's what I have. The tractor, 70's? Ford 420 with FEL is new to me and was fairly cheap. It ran good and looked decent enough for a project. Finding out that it has been neglected more than I thought and I don't think much maintenance has been done for years. Should also mention that I am new to diesel anything.

Fuel was leaking pretty badly from the upper cover on the pump. Did some research and decided to change the shaft seals. I noted the position of the springs. Tried to keep everything very clean but scraping the old gasket and trying to work around the loader brackets with dirt above...it's possible that debris could have gotin. All went back together ok and I believe the shut off lever engaged.

Decided to do the filters at this point and did not try to start the tractor after the pump seals which was probably a mistake. The fuel shut off valve was removed and when I tried to change filters and couldn't get the new seals in with fuel spilling everywhere. Also noticed a pinhole in the fuel line from tank to filter so decided to fix all of this. Here's what was done:

-Drained the tank and replaced with a new tank valve and screen
-Replaced the line to the filter
-Removed the filter assembly and thoroughly cleaned and installed new seals and filters. I read that improperly installed seals on the filters can cause problems but seemed pretty straightforward to me. One issue was the bowl drain valve was broken. Tapped the hole and put a bolt and o-ring instead...This seemed to fit good but keeping it on the list of potential contributors.
-Reinstalled filter assembly and lines and bled at the single top bleeder on top of second filter
-Opened the small bleeder on the pump above the nameplate - cranked the engine and have fuel shooting from there
-Closed that bleeder and cracked the injector lines at the injectors
-Cranked for quite a while and no fuel at the injectors. A while meaning 10x 5-8 seconds of cranking. IDK...didn't count but seemed excessive.
-Also loosened the nut on the injector line at the pump side and cranked the engine - not sure if this was a mistake but thought it was a bleeder for the lines.

-At this point, I'm thinking something is wrong with the pump since I have fuel at the filter (need to confirm the line to the pump has fuel but since I have fuel at the small pump bleeder, I thought I had fuel delivered to the pump).
-Also removed the upper cover again a couple of times and checked the shut off lever engagement as well as the metering valve free to move. If seems like it moves all the way (forward) but I don't know how you would tell since it kind of moves when you try to put the cover back on.
-Cranked for a while again with lines cracked and no fuel at all at the injectors.

Kind of stumped at this point but thinking the next step may be to take the top cover off again and lift the metering valve. Thoughts?

 

[Jim.ME]

Having trouble getting fuel system bled and tractor started after draining fuel system.

So, here's what I have. The tractor, 70's? Ford 420 with FEL is new to me and was fairly cheap. It ran good and looked decent enough for a project. Finding out that it has been neglected more than I thought and I don't think much maintenance has been done for years. Should also mention that I am new to diesel anything.

Fuel was leaking pretty badly from the upper cover on the pump. Did some research and decided to change the shaft seals. I noted the position of the springs. Tried to keep everything very clean but scraping the old gasket and trying to work around the loader brackets with dirt above...it's possible that debris could have gotin. All went back together ok and I believe the shut off lever engaged.

Decided to do the filters at this point and did not try to start the tractor after the pump seals which was probably a mistake. The fuel shut off valve was removed and when I tried to change filters and couldn't get the new seals in with fuel spilling everywhere. Also noticed a pinhole in the fuel line from tank to filter so decided to fix all of this. Here's what was done:

-Drained the tank and replaced with a new tank valve and screen
-Replaced the line to the filter
-Removed the filter assembly and thoroughly cleaned and installed new seals and filters. I read that improperly installed seals on the filters can cause problems but seemed pretty straightforward to me. One issue was the bowl drain valve was broken. Tapped the hole and put a bolt and o-ring instead...This seemed to fit good but keeping it on the list of potential contributors.
-Reinstalled filter assembly and lines and bled at the single top bleeder on top of second filter
-Opened the small bleeder on the pump above the nameplate - cranked the engine and have fuel shooting from there
-Closed that bleeder and cracked the injector lines at the injectors
-Cranked for quite a while and no fuel at the injectors. A while meaning 10x 5-8 seconds of cranking. IDK...didn't count but seemed excessive.
-Also loosened the nut on the injector line at the pump side and cranked the engine - not sure if this was a mistake but thought it was a bleeder for the lines.

-At this point, I'm thinking something is wrong with the pump since I have fuel at the filter (need to confirm the line to the pump has fuel but since I have fuel at the small pump bleeder, I thought I had fuel delivered to the pump).
-Also removed the upper cover again a couple of times and checked the shut off lever engagement as well as the metering valve free to move. If seems like it moves all the way (forward) but I don't know how you would tell since it kind of moves when you try to put the cover back on.
-Cranked for a while again with lines cracked and no fuel at all at the injectors.

Kind of stumped at this point but thinking the next step may be to take the top cover off again and lift the metering valve. Thoughts?

As the questions will come up anyway, so we may as well get them out of the way.

What brand and part number fuel filters did you use? If you used WIX/NAPA filters, you may want to double check that a top seal gasket didn't get out of place and down into the filter.

Did you have the fuel stop in the run position and the fuel throttle lever opened some while you were cranking it, with the lines loosened at the injectors?

 

[Blase-On]

Fuel filters are NAPA 3166. I had the gaskets out and cleaned everything. Pretty sure I got the gaskets back in correctly (one a little larger on top). I can check though.

By top gasket out of place, meaning that larger seals on top and bottom of the filter element? or smaller (1" o-ring) on the center of the filter?

Fuel valve was open and stop valve on the pump forward towards the radiator. Throttle opened some (and fully for some cranking) with fuel lines loose.

 

[Jim.ME]

Fuel filters are NAPA 3166. I had the gaskets out and cleaned everything. Pretty sure I got the gaskets back in correctly (one a little larger on top). I can check though.

By top gasket out of place, meaning that larger seals on top and bottom of the filter element? or smaller (1" o-ring) on the center of the filter?

Fuel valve was open and stop valve on the pump forward towards the radiator. Throttle opened some (and fully for some cranking) with fuel lines loose.

The top seal gasket on a 3166 goes up into a groove in the mounted filter head, not down in the groove around the top of the filter element.

 

[Blase-On]

Got it. So, the lip of the element seals on that gasket and the groove in the housing. Pretty sure the gasket is up in the groove and not inside that lip on the element.

May be worth checking. However, if I loosen the filter outlet to the pump and have fuel, can I rule this out? Only reason I hesitate taking the filters out again is in case I then have to start over with the bleeding process.

 

[Blase-On]

Checked the filter seals and the metering valve. Still no fuel at the injectors. Decided to tear down the pump thinking it got some dirt in it doing the throttle and stop shaft seals.

Question about the rebuild. Does the large snap ring and governor body need to come out? Bundy doesn’t take it out in one video and watched another that does remove it to replace a seal in there.

Also, the round part that fits in the advance piece doesn't have a hex for a socket although it looks to be threaded to the cam section (don’t know the names of any of these). Tried to turn it on the small flat section but worried about breaking it. What am I missing there? Trying to attach a pic.

 

[Dieseltech]

Checked the filter seals and the metering valve. Still no fuel at the injectors. Decided to tear down the pump thinking it got some dirt in it doing the throttle and stop shaft seals.

Question about the rebuild. Does the large snap ring and governor body need to come out? Bundy doesn’t take it out in one video and watched another that does remove it to replace a seal in there.

Also, the round part that fits in the advance piece doesn't have a hex for a socket although it looks to be threaded to the cam section (don’t know the names of any of these). Tried to turn it on the small flat section but worried about breaking it. What am I missing there? Trying to attach a pic.

If you want it done right pump should be completely torn down for a thorough cleaning. The cam screw requires a special tool for removal.

 

[Blase-On]

Thanks. I can see the tool. Doesn’t seem like it’s available anywhere though.

 

[used red MN]

Look at the Ford 4000 pump post below. I would suggest you follow suit from there if you want a solid outcome. Thing is if you mess something up in there all you got is a nice door stop.

 

[Blase-On]

Question on the reseal. I match marked the circlip when removing and went back in the same. However, looking at the manual and a couple of videos, the opening of the ring is on the opening of the pump body. The manual states to position in the center in the opening.

Should I just put it back where is was? I still don’t understand what effect it has but it seems to be important. Tractor ran pretty good before.

 

[Dieseltech]

Question on the reseal. I match marked the circlip when removing and went back in the same. However, looking at the manual and a couple of videos, the opening of the ring is on the opening of the pump body. The manual states to position in the center in the opening.

Should I just put it back where is was? I still don’t understand what effect it has but it seems to be important. Tractor ran pretty good before.

Ford does not use the snap ring for timing like Perkins did, and Ford pumps place the gap AWAY from the opening.

 

[Blase-On]

Ford does not use the snap ring for timing like Perkins did, and Ford pumps place the gap AWAY from the opening.

Interesting. Thanks.

 

[Blase-On]

Still stuck on getting this tractor started. Cranked for three or four batteries worth. Tried starting fluid to get it spinning faster. I do have some fuel dripping at the injectors. It’s a very small amount, though and still won’t start when I try with them closed up.

 

[kz1000]

Did you bleed it at the filter and at the side bleeder on the pump?

 

[Blase-On]

Yes, bled at filter then bled at the pump bleeder while cranking. Good stream coming from the pump bleeder. I have a very small amount from the injectors…not sure how much should be there. But still no start or even trying.

 

[Dieseltech]

Yes, bled at filter then bled at the pump bleeder while cranking. Good stream coming from the pump bleeder. I have a very small amount from the injectors…not sure how much should be there. But still no start or even trying.

Pump PROBABLY has stuck rotor plungers inside, and will need completely torn down to free them up. Other probably could be severely worn head/rotor assembly which will need replaced to get pump working again.

 

[Blase-On]

Pump PROBABLY has stuck rotor plungers inside, and will need completely torn down to free them up. Other probably could be severely worn head/rotor assembly which will need replaced to get pump working again.

I did tear down then pump. Everything was free and looked to be in good condition.

As far as worn, not sure. I didn’t take head anssembly apart but did take out the plungers, cleaned, lubed, and put back same position as everything came out.

 

[Blase-On]

I did tear down then pump. Everything was free and looked to be in good condition.

As far as worn, not sure. I didn’t take head anssembly apart but did take out the plungers, cleaned, lubed, and put back same position as everything came out.

Also replaced the transfer pump vanes.

 

[kz1000]

believe me, I thought that I would ruin the starter on mine before it finally took off. It's best I think to open one line at a time while cranking to see how much your getting. Using a jumper vehicle and prewarmer if it has a block heater really helps.

 

[Dieseltech]

believe me, I thought that I would ruin the starter on mine before it finally took off. It's best I think to open one line at a time while cranking to see how much your getting. Using a jumper vehicle and prewarmer if it has a block heater really helps.

Best have ALL injector lines loose at the injectors for bleeding, NOT one at a time. Also crank engine for 30 seconds at a time, then stop for a bit for starter to cool. Most rotary pumps won't bleed well to injectors with only 5/6 seconds crank time.