Ford 4500 blocks

[Mike industrial tractor]

Hello
I have a 73 ford 4500 tlb with a blown block (201 cid diesel 3 cyl. # D0NN 6015 LA ). I wondered if a block from a 3000 diesel 175 cid (C7NN 6015 A) can be used with my head and pistons etc. to
Make this a 201 cid.? It appears this block casting # could be used with 3000 or 4000 series depending on the serial # below the casting #. I have heard a serial # starting with C is a 3000 (175 cid) series and a serial # starting with D is a 4000 (201cid). The bore is the same however wondered if the displacement (stroke) is governed just by the crankshaft and the cylinder head?
Thanks

 

[C30Diesel]

175 CID 4.2 Bore 4.2 stroke ,201 4.4 bore. 4.4 stroke block
not the same.
I think head is the same.

 

[Mike industrial tractor]

Thanks fo the info..

 

[sotxbill]

And the casting number starting with a D means 1970's decade of the engineering design. Next digit is the year within the decade indicated.. The NN means ag use... 6015 means engine block, and then the rest identify the exact block size, type, and revision. SO.. you can find a d0nn6015xxxx block in a 3 cyl, 4 cyl, and 6 cyl pending on the final digits and in gas and diesel models.
First digits of a C7 would be a 1960s decade block designed in the 7th year or 1967.


Now that the design is not the date of the actual blocks manufacture.. A d7nn block could have been made from 1977 to when ever the next engineering change was made. So there will be a date code on the block showing the actual casting date also.

Here is a very good reference to the older ford casting number rules.
https://automotivemileposts.com/ford/fordpartnumbers.htmlhttps://automotivemileposts.com/ford/fordpartnumbers.html


Hope this helps...

 

[Sean in PA]

Let me address each question individually:

I wondered if a block from a 3000 diesel 175 cid (C7NN 6015 A) can be used with my head and pistons etc. to
Make this a 201 cid.?

No, it is the bore and stroke that define the displacement. A 175 ci block with the original 4.2" bore and original crankshaft with a 4.2" stroke will always be a 175 ci engine, no matter what head is on it, and also your 4.4" pistons from the original 201 ci engine will not even fit into the 4.2" bore of the 175 ci engine.

It appears this block casting # could be used with 3000 or 4000 series depending on the serial # below the casting #. I have heard a serial # starting with C is a 3000 (175 cid) series and a serial # starting with D is a 4000 (201cid).

Yes, the 3 cylinder block casting could be used for the 2000 series, 3000 series or 4000 series, but the displacement depends on the bore and stroke as I replied above. And yes, the engine serial number prefix will tell you which series it as built for, but they did actually make various models within a series with different displacements.

The bore is the same however wondered if the displacement (stroke) is governed just by the crankshaft and the cylinder head?

The bore is not the same. The 3000 series diesel engine was a 4.2" bore and the 4000 series was a 4.4" bore, and as I said, the head has nothing to do with the displacement. If you moved the crankshaft from the 201 into the 175, then you would end up with a 4.2" bore x 4.4" stroke, which they never made as an option that I am aware of, and the 4.2" bore pistons would hit the valves and the head at the top of the stroke and grenade the engine the first time you tried to crank it over.

 

[Destroked 450]

They did make a engine using the 3000 s 4.2 bore and 4000 s 4.4 stroke, it was a 183 ci engine used in the 3055, the later 4100 and a couple industrial models

 

[Ultradog MN]

Didn't ford make a 183 ci = 4.2 B x 4.4 S?
I suppose it wouldn't make much more HP
than a 175 and pistons would be hard to
find. Putting a 175 ci engine in place of a
201 would be a serious step down in
horsepower. 38 vs 52.

 

[Mike industrial tractor]

Thanks for the replies. You mentioned: "Yes, the 3 cylinder block casting could be used for the 2000 series, 3000 series or 4000 series, but the displacement depends on the bore and stroke as I replied above. And yes, the engine serial number prefix will tell you which series it as built for, but they did actually make various models within a series with different displacements."

so I assumed that the C7NN was a 3000 series because it has a serial # starting with a "C" however you mentioned it could have different displacements. Could a C serial # still be a 201 cid (3.3lt) engine and if so what else on the serial # would give us the cid?
Thanks again.

 

[Ultradog MN]

Here are All the displacements for the 3
cylinder engines.
4.2 b x 3.8 s = 158
4.2 b x 4.2 s = 175
4.2 b x 4.4 s = 183
4.4 b x 4.2 s = 192
4.4 b x 4.4 s = 201

You can not over bore a 4.2 to 4.4.
You would be into the water jacket.

 

[Mike industrial tractor]

Sean:
You mentioned the 3000 had various displacements. How would I know if there is a 201 cid on a serial # starting with a 3?

 

[Sean in PA]

(quoted from post at 02:10:41 04/07/23)
They did make a engine using the 3000 s 4.2 bore and 4000 s 4.4 stroke, it was a 183 ci engine used in the 3055, the later 4100 and a couple industrial models

Yes, but it used different pistons than the 175.

 

[Destroked 450]

3000 had 2 engine sizes, 158 ci gas and 175 ci diesel
Both used the 4.2 bore block
The 4.4 bore block was not used in a 3 series of until the 3910 which had a 192 ci engine

 

[Destroked 450]

Yes the 183 uses different pistons and the last ones I got were very pricy

 

[Sean in PA]

(quoted from post at 13:38:25 04/07/23)
Thanks for the replies. You mentioned: "Yes, the 3 cylinder block casting could be used for the 2000 series, 3000 series or 4000 series, but the displacement depends on the bore and stroke as I replied above. And yes, the engine serial number prefix will tell you which series it as built for, but they did actually make various models within a series with different displacements."

so I assumed that the C7NN was a 3000 series because it has a serial # starting with a "C" however you mentioned it could have different displacements. Could a C serial # still be a 201 cid (3.3lt) engine and if so what else on the serial # would give us the cid?
Thanks again.

No, the raised number that starts with C7NN is the casting code. It is not the engine serial number. The casting code is for the engineers to keep track of the design for the casting. The C7 at the beginning simply tells you when the casting was designed. C is the code for the 1960's decade, and 7 is the year within the decade, so C7 means that the casting was designed in 1967.

The engine serial number is stamped into the smooth area below that, just above the oil pan. It is located in the lower oval in the picture below This is a 5000 series 4 cylinder engine, but the location is the same. Also, the engine serial number may not be centered in that oval, it may be off to the left or right, but it should be somewhere on that flat rail:

They used different prefix letters on the early (pre-4/1/68) engine serial numbers than the later (4/1/68+) tractors:

pre 4/1/68:
L - 2000
N - 3000
P - 4000
R - 5000

4/1/68+:
B - 2000
C - 3000
D - 4000
E - 5000

So if the engine serial number begins with an N or a C then it was built for a 3xxx series tractor, and if it starts with a P or a D then it was built for a 4xxx series tractor.

 

[Mike industrial tractor]

Thanks everyone for the great replies. So does anyone know what a serial # of C33977 is in cid?
Sounds like it could be either a 158,175 or a 192 cid.
Thanks

 

[nashranch]

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This post was edited by nashranch on 04/08/2023 at 10:14 am.

 

[Destroked 450]

(quoted from post at 10:59:23 04/08/23) Thanks everyone for the great replies. So does anyone know what a serial # of C33977 is in cid?
Sounds like it could be either a 158,175 or a 192 cid.
Thanks

Is that the tractor serial number or engine serial number
If tractor serial number it only tells me it s a 72 model tractor built in the US
If it s the engine serial number the C means it s a 3000 engine
If this is a 3000 engine a gas engine would be 158 cid, if it s diesel it would be 175 cid
If that s you 4500 s serial number it will have a 201, the 192 gas engine was discontinued after April 1968
The 192 diesel wasn t introduced until 1983 in the 3910 model

 

[Mike industrial tractor]

Hi, yes this is a serial # from the engine C7NN 6015 a .
I was thinking of using this engine for my blown 201 cid in my 4500 as a cheaper alternative so I was hoping it was a 192 but looks like your saying it s a 175 .
Do you think this is too small for my 755 backhoe as I m just using on my own small farm?
The other issue is my 1973 D0NN 6015 la engine has the heavy oil pan which I m assuming fits the c7 engine. The cast engine webbing look similar.

 

[Sean in PA]

That engine is a 3000 series 175 ci engine, but it has plenty of power to run that backhoe. It might go a little slower when stressing the digging capabilities to their max without popping open the relief valve, but it still has more power than is needed to reach the maximum psi for the relief valve to open, at which point the digging capability of the machine has been reached even if it had the more powerful 201 ci engine.

 

[Destroked 450]

You said the 201 was blown but what is actually wrong with the block