Ford 640 - Restoration / Look-Alike Battery?

[kingsley73]

Good morning everyone. Almost to the wiring phase of my 640 restoration, still buttoning up a few other things and working my way there. My question today revolves around the battery.

I own a classic car and you can easily find "restoration" batteries with look-alike shells that have modern guts. In all of my searching, I can't seem to find something similar for our old Ford Tractors. In fact, the closest I can find is what appears to be folks just buying modern batteries and adding the "Ford Tractor" decal to the outward facing side.

For those that have restored a 600/800 series, is there a close "look-alike" with a similar case that I could apply the decal to and call it a day? Very curious to hear what others have done to accomplish this. I know it's not vitally important but I am trying to be as thorough as possible.

Thanks!

 

[Sean in PA]

Why are you worrying about the battery appearing period correct when it has an alternator installed? Also, I believe that the manifold was originally red like the rest of the engine.

 

[kingsley73]

I'm just working with what I have and attempting to add longevity to parts that are prone to corrosion, such as the manifold that you referenced. The tractor had the alternator and 12v conversion already so I wasn't going to retrofit back to a generator and 6v, however I used the highest temperature Cerakote on the manifold, muffler, and exhaust pipe. Unfortunately, there is no way that I could get a color match for the Cerakote because the red is not available in that product, so I opted to go with black for the whole thing.

My rationale for the battery is that I want to get everything within my control as close as possible to how it should have/would have looked. I've seen pictures of restored tractors that have the "Ford Tractor" logo and simply wanted to get as close to that as possible. 100% period/factory correct? No, at least not for what we mentioned above. But I have also tried to replicate correct brackets and parts wherever possible. My preference has always been to get it as close as possible, within certain limitations of course and/or technology improvements if they make sense. Another example, I eliminated the points/condenser and went with a breakerless ignition under the cap. Maybe most importantly, I really just like the look of those batteries more than a generic smooth sided battery case, or an odd colored battery like a gray Optima Red Top, etc.

This post was edited by kingsley73 on 11/10/2021 at 07:36 am.

 

[Sean in PA]

I don't know if this one's the correct size, but here's a listing for a reproduction 6 volt Ford battery with the Ford script oval:

Link to reproduction 6 volt Ford battery with Ford script oval

It says "Out of stock", so I don't know if that's a temporary condition or if they stopped making them.

But wait, you say that you're keeping the alternator, which means that you need a 12 volt batter, so I don't think that Ford ever made a battery with their script oval logo on the side like that in a 12 volt version. All of the 12 volt repro batteries I can find have FORD in smaller block letters with "Power Punch" in larger letters, or "AUTOLITE" with no "Ford" at all. It looks like only the 6 volt batteries used the oval with the Ford in script.

 

[kingsley73]

Thanks, that is great information. I was worried, as you said, that it could be a tougher job trying to find one in 12V. I'll keep searching, i dont mind applying decals to the sides of the battery case but i was hoping to find one that maybe looked similar. I appreciate the info, much appreciated!

 

[Bern]

I tend to agree with Sean. If you're going to run with an alternator instead of a generator, I certainly wouldn't be worrying about getting an exact replica battery. As an outside observer, if I were admiring your tractor at a machinery show, I would likely notice the contrast and wonder why you went through all of that trouble just for the battery. I know you said that you wanted the charging system technology improvements, which would be nice for a daily driver, but is not needed for a show tractor, IMHO.

That said, I do agree with you on the manifold. When I restored my 6000, I opted to have it powder coated with high-temp black, because if I had painted it blue, it would have ended up rusty and nasty looking a year later. However, I retained the generator because an alternator just does not look right. And because it works, and because I don't use it at night.

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley RIP]

All that nice restoration work and you want to put an ALT on it? Shame on you. Keep it OEM 6V/POS GRN. There is a place that makes and sells the original style
batteries complete with logos. My friend in KA restored his early 9N and his early 8N and was able to locate a place with the OEM style batteries. There was a place
called New Castle Battery but I think they are long out of business. I will try to see if he can help out. I cheated and just bought decals from George Bradish and
applied them to my 6V Interstate GRP 1 battery when I restored my 8N.




STEVE DABROWSKI & HIS EARLY 1948 FORD 8N w/REPOP OEM-STYLE BATTERY:

EARLY FORD 1948 8N TRACTOR; RESTORED, TIM DALEY, OWNER/OPERATOR:

NOTE: INTERSTATE BATTERY HAS A GEORGE BRADISH DECAL ON IT.


Tim Daley(MI)

 

[Hobo,NC]

I have always used group 35 some prefer a 25 I have used a 26. It depends on how the battery mount/cover fits the battery. I know AC Delco battery's are black as is most other than Interstate. I think Interstate has gone black but retains the green top.

A quick search

The original 6V battery is Group Size 1 - 9-1/8 (L) x 7-1/8 (W) x 9-3/8 (H).


12V Group 25 & Group 35 batteries are just slightly smaller at 9-1/16 x
6-7/8 x 8-7/8.

Nope the alt does not knock off points to me...

 

[kingsley73]

(quoted from post at 05:37:14 11/11/21) All that nice restoration work and you want to put an ALT on it? Shame on you. Keep it OEM 6V/POS GRN. There is a place that makes and sells the original style
batteries complete with logos. My friend in KA restored his early 9N and his early 8N and was able to locate a place with the OEM style batteries. There was a place
called New Castle Battery but I think they are long out of business. I will try to see if he can help out. I cheated and just bought decals from George Bradish and
applied them to my 6V Interstate GRP 1 battery when I restored my 8N.




STEVE DABROWSKI & HIS EARLY 1948 FORD 8N w/REPOP OEM-STYLE BATTERY:
<center><img src=https://i.imgur.com/eUF3X4ol.jpg></center>


EARLY FORD 1948 8N TRACTOR; RESTORED, TIM DALEY, OWNER/OPERATOR:
<center><img src=https://i.imgur.com/I9baVRyl.jpg></center>
NOTE: INTERSTATE BATTERY HAS A GEORGE BRADISH DECAL ON IT.


Tim Daley(MI)

Tim, thank you as always for the great information - those tractors look fantastic. Something you wrote up above is exactly what I was hoping to find with my initial question- that being, what battery (if not a repro) are folks using and how they mock them up (I had planned on applying the sticker to the side as well). I love the look of your battery and how you set it up.

I do appreciate the concern about 6v/12v, but I should mention that I did NOT do the conversion myself. The tractor was already long converted to 12v when it came into my possession, so I decided I would 'simulate' the effect of original and paint the case of the alternator just to get close. As much as I would like to take it to a show, realistically I know that this was more of a project for myself and the kids to work on and have while getting to spend some good time together. At this point I have already purchased new 12v bulbs, new coil, new wiring harness, not to mention the distributor was converted to breakerless (i assume when they converted to 12v). I just didn't see the need to go backward on those, especially since this is my first tractor restoration.

Having said that, I am on the lookout for a Powermaster or 800 for the next project, which I would like to restore as close to bone-stock as possible, including the original 6v system.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback and ideas - this gives me a good direction to go for the battery (especially Tim's method of using the Interstate Battery, I will probably just do that). I did find a site that offers the reproduction battery with a 12v option as long as you order it that way and make sure they know...of course, its also $359 so again, I think the Interstate with a decal applied is the right direction.

 

[michford]

Beautiful job on your 640. I'm in the convert to 12v with alternator camp as well. I converted my 641 and 860 10 years ago and have never looked back and haven't had to touch either of them since. I like how you painted the alternator red so it blends in better. You will enjoy the brighter 12v headlights, and I also added lighted 12v dash gauges that are nice for night operating. Here is my 860 with nice bright 12v lights.

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley RIP]

I found this LINK ---- click below. Script looks like it was molded on but originals were painted.


TPD
BATTERY REPLICAS

 

[Tim PloughNman Daley RIP]

I heard back from Steve Dabrowski and he had this to say:

The Battery source is Jims Antique Batteries in Youngstown, OH. Their number is 800-426-7580, but I dont know if they are still in business. Someone said they were as
of Oct, 2019. I forget when I ordered my 8N battery from them, but it was probably around then. Jim was an employee of the original company and bought it after the owner
passed away. I just called and got a message that I had reached Jims Batteries and press 1 for sales and 2 for other questions, but the call would not transfer to
either of these so dont know what status of the company is.


TPD

 

[kingsley73]

(quoted from post at 05:24:59 11/13/21) I heard back from Steve Dabrowski and he had this to say:

The Battery source is Jims Antique Batteries in Youngstown, OH. Their number is 800-426-7580, but I dont know if they are still in business. Someone said they were as
of Oct, 2019. I forget when I ordered my 8N battery from them, but it was probably around then. Jim was an employee of the original company and bought it after the owner
passed away. I just called and got a message that I had reached Jims Batteries and press 1 for sales and 2 for other questions, but the call would not transfer to
either of these so dont know what status of the company is.


TPD

Tim, this is absolutely fantastic, I cant tell you how much I appreciate you digging into this.thank you so much for the effort! Im doing electrical today so once I verify no other gremlins in the system, Ill go through these more carefully and make a decision how to proceed. Awesome stuff!!!!

Thanks again!

 

[moday]

Great job, I too have a 640 going back together. You are a
bit ahead of me but hope to be done soon. Leaving 6v for
now. I broke a bolt in front cover from oil
Pan last night so had to drill and tap so that was a bummer.
Id like to hear more about your wiring when I get to that point

 

[kingsley73]

Sure thing. I am using the reproduction/"original" style harness from Steiner that comes modified for the 1 wire alternator/12v system. Otherwise, it has all of the same plugs and connectors you will need for lights, etc.

I actually had some issues this weekend doing this job because, lo and behold, the brand new push-button starter on the trans case only worked about 5 times and then failed. I was "bumping" the starter to adjust the valve lash and then get to TDC to static time the distributor. To my dismay, the button failing caused a false ground to the starter solenoid. Before I realized what was happening, i was having sparks flying and the starter would engage every time I tried hooking up the negative battery ground cable. After about 15 minutes of frustrating troubleshooting, i realized it was the button when I showed continuity between it and the solenoid without the button actually being pressed. So, now i have to tear the case open and replace this, unfortunately.

The harness I bought had step-by-step instructions with each of the connectors labeled with a number, so it makes things pretty straight forward...I'll be more than happy to provide you with some pics if you have any questions.

Cheers!