Ford tractor buying questions, 4000 or 5000

M-Farm

Member
I need to upgrade to a diesel, it will be a farm tractor used to mainly pull a bush hog, next in line would be box blade, then disc etc., but my main reason for upgrading is the amount of gas I have been burning with my 861 and 850. any advice? I have 60 acres and run a small herd of cattle, with a LOT of trees so no canopy and not too large. I am working myself to death with the size of my tractors. I cannot afford a new kubota with 4wd and loader, and have not needed it so far so that's out of the question. I have about decided to get either a 4 or 5000 Ford due to their reliability and fairly low price.

I have heard to stay away from "grey market" 5000's? Not sure what that means, or how to spot them? Can I run a bat wing on a 5000?

What's the biggest bush hog I can run on a 4000?

Prices seem all over the map, very few for sale right now as well, any idea what an average condition 4000 and 5000 run with average tires etc.?

Thanks in advance!
 
as far as stats...

Ford 5000 (1965 - 1976)
PTO (tested): 60.37 hp

Ford 4000 (1965 - 1975)
PTO (tested): 52.65 hp

16% more power. A common rule of thumb is 5 HP per foot of bush hog mower. I would expect either will handle a 6 foot mower.
 
(quoted from post at 12:55:54 08/20/15) as far as stats...

Ford 5000 (1965 - 1976)
PTO (tested): 60.37 hp

Ford 4000 (1965 - 1975)
PTO (tested): 52.65 hp

16% more power. A common rule of thumb is 5 HP per foot of bush hog mower. I would expect either will handle a 6 foot mower.
0hp, 5 hp/foot = 6 foot? Maybe calculator needs new batteries? :roll:
 
Going from an 800 or 801 to 3 cylinder
4000 is a big step up in horsepower size
and capability.
Going to a 5000 is a huge step up.
Either would suit your needs.
A 4000 will run the heaviest 6' brush mower
handily. A 5000 ought to play with one and
could easily go bigger.
I do not know what a gray market 4 or 5000
is unless it is a Long tractor Which were
sorta based on the Fords.
A good 4000 diesel will probably run you
$5K in these parts. Comparable 5000
probably $6K.
My pal Kenny has a good 4000 diesel on
Minneapolis Craigslist for $5000.
Rebuilt engine - sleeves, pistons,
bearings, head, etc. New clutch. New paint,
aftermarket power steering that works good.
Good solid tractor. Only 50% rears though.
He's not getting any calls on it.
 
a 5000 will easilly pull a 10' mower. I run a 3pt 10' and the 3pt lifts it, with about 420# ballast on the front. a semi mount 10 or 12' would likely be fine, or a batwing 12, as long as you were just clipping with it and not landclearing.... On a 4000, it will play with a 6' mower, even mowing hedgerows. Most i would probably do with it is an 8' twin spindle.. it will handle better than a 7' single spindle which is a larger heavier mower vs a twin 8 which is like 2 4' mowers side by side.

PS.. the 5000 could be had with the older 233 or the newer 256 engine.. the 256 was 67 pto hp.

the 5000 is another size step up from the 4000.. all depends on what size you need.

don't overlook the newer 4600/5600 or even the 10 series.

I have a 4600 and a 5000. I kinda like the 4600 better. still strong, but a bit more maneuverable, and not so big.
 
I have no bloody idea what a gray market 5000 is. Never heard of it. If it's got 'Ford' and '5000' on the hood I wouldn't worry about it. Do keep in mind that the power specs changed over time. a 65-10/68 model 4000 is 45 hp; the 5000 is 56 hp. after 10/68 they were 52 and 68 respectively. A 4600/10 remained at 52 hp while the 5600 dropped to 58 hp and the 5610 was 62 hp.
They're all good tractors. A 4000 will run 6' in heavy cutting and that can be a good load for it; particularly the older model. In light clipping it would probably run 8-10' worth. The 5000 would be good with 7-8' on the heavy side and probably as much as a 15' batwing if you're just clipping...
5 grand would buy just about any of them in decent operating condition today. Substantially less for a rough one.

Rod
 
just one of those things
either will work
anything the 4000 can do, the 5000 can do...better.
But that 5000 is big, tall, and heavy.

I sold my 5000 because it was just too hard to maneuver on my tight tree lined trails.
But I miss it constantly when I need it's power and weight for tough jobs.
 
Gray market typically is foreign manufacture with questionable parts support, you see it with importation of used heavy equipment, and have to check serial numbers to determine what it is. I believe it could apply to some or all of the smaller/ ford models, not 2000-8000 and up series, just the compact and sub compact models. I don't see it applying to a 5000 or any thousand series of the older designs.

We had a previously owned 5000 in stock one summer and put it to use baling, good match all the way around, but would be cumbersome in some places I worked with my 850, or the '64 4000,(4cyl)way back when. I've run a 5600 in the past, with a loader, at a friends place working part time. It was a little big, but very capable, he still has it today. Years ago it was listed for sale, a one owner since new, I thought about it as I remembered what it was like to run it, that and its a well cared for, always been in a shed, nice original tractor that has thousands of hours left in it and then some.

I think the prices of the models you are looking for have come down, seems 10 years ago, these still brought more money than now. I see them around 5K + or - locally in various condition.

I used the same rationale to upgrade as my 850 is well worn, engine runs good, but it needs a lot of repairs, it has served me well for 13 years and proved to be one tough tractor.

I could not justify something new of a 4000, 4610, 4630 class tractor either, its just way out of my budget. The solution was finding a low hour 90's model. I settled on a ford/new holland 4630 fwd that came up locally from the 2nd owner. It needed a lot of minor things and small repairs, but its all the tractor I'll need for the work I need to do. Instead of plunking down 5K for something older, needing more repair, I took some of that and used it for a down payment to finance this upgrade. I lucked out as it went on consignment at the dealer that sold it originally, this made financing easy. I'll own it in less than 4 years now and its a modern tractor that covers my needs. It has good parts support,(now at least LOL!) and it does not have 10,000 hours on it. It was under 15k, and is less than $300/month.

So far, I think I did just fine with this purchase and I really appreciated the advice or comments from others here that helped me with making a decision, both technical and practical. Who knows what could happen with it long term, like any piece of equipment, new or used, there is risk. You do the best you can, with both the purchase and the maintenance you give it. Once I tried it out, what a difference, really something to appreciate and after 13 years of the same annual work, sure is nice to have power steering !!! LOL !! FWD, wow..... that's all I can say. No loader but I'll get one for it eventually. I'll just use my old one when I need to.

I have more acreage to cover, just under 100, but its not all fields, as some are over grown and wooded now. There is no doubt that what I have, will make things easier, its a perfect size for me, fits in a standard residential garage too. Fold down ROPS is perfect for low clearance. I don't need a cab yet, so this one really matched up to get into the garage. and it does have what turns out to be a factory correct under-slung exhaust, no limbs to knock the stack off or whip you across the face. All around good size tractor for a smaller farm or operation, no doubt about it.
 
I'm curious where the difference in HP ratings came from.
I understand the 5000 went from 233 ci to 254 thus the bump.
What about the 4000s?
Yes the gassers went from 192 to 201 somewhere along the line. 68?
That would explain the increase in HP.
But what about the diesels?
Same 201, same pump, same max rpm - all the way from 65 to 75.
 

gray market may refer to Farm Trac, I think is the one. They are Ford blue and styled like a 10 series so some people think that they are related to Ford but but they are made in India.
 
I was flipping through my shop manual last weekend and noticed where some of the difference comes from, but can only comment on the 4000 as the book only covers the 2-4000s. But it shows in 7/68 specs on compression and high idle rpms changed.

Interestingly the gas compression stayed the same, the max compression for the diesel actually is slightly lower...from 420-510 to 420-500.

The high idle spec increased slightly for both gas and diesel, but the rated rpm stayed flat.

What caught me was that the book shows the change made in 7/68, but I thought most of the changes were made in 9/68.
 
Agreed. Though we have tried to run our old sidewinder 7' on the 4000, and it struggled, but that's not a typical mower. I'd say in most pasture a 5000 would pull a pull type 10', but probably wouldn't lift it if it were a 3pt.
 
This whole thing seems bassackwards to me. First decide needs to be diesel, then decides needs to be 4000 or 5000 Ford. Where did " lets specify requirements & see what tractor that leads me to"? :roll:
 
Early 4000 diesel was 192 cid. Late was 201. Power spec is simple adjustment to pump settings in either case.
I could also be off about the precise date of the change. 10/68 is stuck in my head but that is by no means cast in stone. Many little changes were happening all the time in the months leading up to that.

Rod
 
Gray market, as it's generally known, refers to tractors such as Kubota... that are built in Japan, etc to a Japanese spec and marketed there... then hauled over here used when their first life is concluded. They often have reverse direction PTO's and come with a host of unsupported parts in the north American market even though they are full blooded Kubota's.
I know of no such distinction with Fords. They were, from 1965 forward, built as 'world' tractors, the same any place they were sold and supported as such. That's not to say they didn't have a host of options, some of which were popular locally, some of which were not... but all are supported through the mainline organization throughout the world. If it has Farmtrac on the hood, then it's not a Ford.... and all bets are off. Those things were built up on Ford 3600 tooling originally but the similarities end after that.

Rod
 
(quoted from post at 20:50:31 08/20/15) This whole thing seems bassackwards to me. First decide needs to be diesel, then decides needs to be 4000 or 5000 Ford. Where did " lets specify requirements & see what tractor that leads me to"? :roll:

????? does that comment in any way help me?
 
thanks to all for the advice, that's what I'm looking for. I guess I am leaning towards the 4000 series due to size, even though I could get the mowing done a lot faster on a 5000. My 861 has no problem pulling a 6' hog unless I am clearing land, that's pretty much done now though.

I know nothing about these tractors except they are readily available, affordable, have a really good reputation as far as durability, and I like fords obviously. I have no problem with John Deere, don't know what the equivalent would be, but they are outnumbered probably 8 to 1 around here as far as craigslist ads. Any more advice will be appreciated, thanks again!
 
(quoted from post at 08:25:26 08/21/15)
(quoted from post at 20:50:31 08/20/15) This whole thing seems bassackwards to me. First decide needs to be diesel, then decides needs to be 4000 or 5000 Ford. Where did " lets specify requirements & see what tractor that leads me to"? :roll:

????? does that comment in any way help me?
uch an approach would no doubt lead to many more options, & perhaps prevent over or under buying. Example: I need a heavy long range bomber (minimum 20 each 500# bombs delivered 4000 miles away) & I'm thinking about buying a F-16.
You thought it was a A.S. answer, it wasn't.
 
(quoted from post at 06:39:51 08/21/15)
(quoted from post at 08:25:26 08/21/15)
(quoted from post at 20:50:31 08/20/15) This whole thing seems bassackwards to me. First decide needs to be diesel, then decides needs to be 4000 or 5000 Ford. Where did " lets specify requirements & see what tractor that leads me to"? :roll:

????? does that comment in any way help me?
uch an approach would no doubt lead to many more options, & perhaps prevent over or under buying. Example: I need a heavy long range bomber (minimum 20 each 500# bombs delivered 4000 miles away) & I'm thinking about buying a F-16.
You thought it was a A.S. answer, it wasn't.
Everyone else managed to give me information I could use without being flippant.
 
(quoted from post at 10:19:11 08/21/15)
(quoted from post at 06:39:51 08/21/15)
(quoted from post at 08:25:26 08/21/15)
(quoted from post at 20:50:31 08/20/15) This whole thing seems bassackwards to me. First decide needs to be diesel, then decides needs to be 4000 or 5000 Ford. Where did " lets specify requirements & see what tractor that leads me to"? :roll:

????? does that comment in any way help me?
uch an approach would no doubt lead to many more options, & perhaps prevent over or under buying. Example: I need a heavy long range bomber (minimum 20 each 500# bombs delivered 4000 miles away) & I'm thinking about buying a F-16.
You thought it was a A.S. answer, it wasn't.
Everyone else managed to give me information I could use without being flippant.
eally my fault. I didn't read your initial post carefully enough, where you had already decided on Ford 4000 or 5000. In that case, forget requirements, just go buy one. Actually, the tractors you have will do all the jobs that you mentioned. Sometimes people just want something different, like a newer car or truck every two years. Go for it.
 
You may be correct and I'm thinking of the spark engines that used the 192 in the early models and 201 in the later models. Regardless, the power spec numbers are correct. Early models had a good deal less snort.

Rod
 
One thing that wasn't elaborated on was the drop in power from the late 5000 to the 5600/5610. The reason being that the late 5000 was replaced by the 6600/6610, and the 5600/5610 became an additional model powered between the 4600/4610 and the 6600/6610!
 
Late to the party. I am running a 8 foot, duel spindle, heavy duty pull behind and the 3 cyl diesel handles it in low 4th in heavy grass. My 4000 is light in the front, so I would stay
away from a 3 pt hitch mower bigger than 6 foot. The 4000 3 cyl diesel is a good tractor, it is a shame they still don't build them. None of the "new" tractors will be running when they
are 45 years old!
 

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