front to back rake (wheel stance) much difference?

[north puller]

When you measure front weight distance, it is a horizontal line on the ground from axle to weights. With an extreme rake, if you measure a straight horizontal line and the weights are at 11', measure on the downward angle from axle center to weight center, and the weights will be a distance of around 11' 6" from the axle. When the front starts to lift and the tractor levels out, the weights actually move forward. Hope that makes some sense.

 

[JHH]

(quoted from post at 04:47:49 08/14/11) When you measure front weight distance, it is a horizontal line on the ground from axle to weights. With an extreme rake, if you measure a straight horizontal line and the weights are at 11', measure on the downward angle from axle center to weight center, and the weights will be a distance of around 11' 6" from the axle. When the front starts to lift and the tractor levels out, the weights actually move forward. Hope that makes some sense.

How did you do that N P, when the weights on my tractor are 11 feet from the axle and the front comes up they are still 11 feet from the axle. Nothing changes between weights and axle.

 

[Anonymous-0]

Its beter to keep the front wheels on the ground . dieing tractors that are loosing ground speed are the ones picking the front end up. driving one with the brakes also cost you distance. its all about resistance, breaks cause more resistance this is how the stop you from rolling . hard aired up front tires have less rolling ground resistance. The hitch also stays at the highest point and giving the maximum down force to the rear tires. If dropping hitch height is such a winner why not start of with the hitch lower?

 

[D-Day]

I think the advantage of having a forward rake is that it is harder to get the front end off the ground since the front tires are over center so to speak. If the line from front to back is level, then it is easier to lift the front off the ground, whereas if the front is lower than the back, it takes more effort to raise the front.

 

[MMZAck]

I've been through the geometry and numbers on this a few times before. There is no significant advantage to a steep forward rake. I know it seems like there should be, but the swept arc or path the weights or front wheels move along as the front comes up is very large - and no, the weights at 11ft do not end up 6in further ahead when they reach a horizontal plane. It is more like 1/2 to 3/4in, which isn't enough to make much difference - especially in antique pulling at slower speeds.

Looking at a side view of the tractor, it doesn't matter what shape is between the wheels, whether level or raked downward. The real question here is the difference in height between the front and rear wheels and how far apart they are. Even if you put 18.4-38s on a Ford 8N with a 70in wheelbase, the front weights at 11 feet are forced to swing through the same arc even though the tractor has an extreme rake. The reason for the 11 foot rule is to level the playing field between short and long wheelbase tractors. Weight balance, adjustability, tires and gearing are much more important. You know this already though.

Zack

 

[Visitor]

I have been considering adding a wide front on my 77 and having some rake to it, but my concern when adding rake is that all my gear oil, and motor oil will be forced to the front of the transmission and engine. Having all the oil at the front of my motor might cause some ill affects. Any respones on this subject is appreciated!

 

[ih560]

Yes the tractor will travel through an arc, but look at this crude drawing and imagine that between the two verticle lines is 11 feet, now when the front end is raised til level, you have exceeded 11 feet from the center of the rear axle (center of the circle) to the weights (perimeter of the circle). I understand what he is saying, although, is it worth the trade off in draw bar height? It may not matter because if it is balance properly with 100% of weight transfer to the rear wheels, the front will leave the ground only a very little.

The ground is below the tractor (circle) and perpendicular to the two verticle lines.

 

[north puller]

The rule does not say that the weights must not be farther than 11' from the rear axle. It says that they may not be farther forward than 11' from the rear axle. Draw a triangle 11' from the axle straight ahead. Draw a line straight down to the ground. Now draw the angle back to the axle. If the weights were on the ground, they would be 11' forward, but more than 11' from the axle.

Same goes for the front wheels. They may not be at 11', but they move forward as the front lifts.

Anything below the rear axle plane, in front of the axle will move forward as the front lifts. Anything above the rear axle plane will move to the rear as the front lifts.

 

[BushogPapa]

OH, Come ON, we ALL know a tractor pulls better going DOWN HILL...saves Fuel, too..

I want all my tractors to run "Down Hill" all of the time.!!

Ron..

 

[VicS]

I agree with all the comments below about needing a little rake, in the front. Like your tractor can lift the front a little and the center of gravity will still be below your rear axle. But look on the cover of the Antique Puller Jan/Feb 2011. The SMTA is Gene Esche"s a real good Super Farm Stock puller in fact the King of the Hill of the USAP Thanksgiving pull of 2010. When it is sitting still the front end is higher than the rear.(single front wheel). And he always does well. In the picture his front wheel is at least 10 inches off the ground. So how come he WON. In Staging in the last HOOK is my little JD and the wheels are off the ground about 2 inches and I made a full pull, guiding it with my body and the brakes. In a perfect world maybe your front wheels should stay on the ground. Vic

 

[TravisM]

I agree with vic, while I like to have the front end sit lower "rake". Our tractor hooks up best when the front tires are 2 or 3 inches off the ground and stay at the hieght through out the pull. If the tractor stays planted we don"t do as well

 

[Red D]

Look at the diagram as if it were the rear hitch, As the front goes up, the rear hitch swings inward, under the rear axle, shortening to less than say 18 inches

 

[showcrop]

My pulling tractors both slope down from front to back. This is not intentional. I didn't do it to get good geometry or streamlining. I got smaller wheels for the front to improve balance, and when I put them on and let the front back down it went down further.

 

[showcrop]

Both of my pullers sit with the back a little higher than the front. This is purely accidental, it is not for geometry or streamlining. I got smaller tires/wheels for the front in order to improve balance, and after putting them on and letting the front back down, it went down further.

 

[DAVE Thompson jr]

If you ever get the opportunity look at Jim Benjamins tractor from Michigan. He always has the front end just a couple of inches off of the ground and is hard to compete against. he has a very good set up on making his tractor hook up.