GET IN NOW WHILE ITS CHEAP

GET IN NOW WHILE THE STOCKS R CHEAP , U KNOW ALL THREE OF THE BIG AUTO WONT BE ALLOWED 2 GO UNDER
PROBBABLY NONE ,,THEY JUST WANT TO MAKE THEM SWEAT IT OUT, NOBAMA ALREADY HAS SAID '''WE MUST'' SO U KNOW SOMEONE WILL EITHER , TAKE SOMEONE ELSE OVER, MERGE SOMETHING WILL COME ALONG AND SAVE THEM//// BUY SOME OF ALL 3 AND WATCH IT GROW,, HEY EVEN IF IT GOES UP 3-4 BUCKS YOUVE DOUBLED YOUR MONEY,,,, YESS I AM YELLING;;
 
Your right I don't see them going under totaly
as most of the parts are made over seas for them.
I see the management being very hard to understand their language and we will be building Chevibishies , Ford UGOS , and Chrystlerotas.

they will merge into the VW, Toyota BMW plants that are scattered in our country now.
 
I bought 200 shares in the company I retired from, just a couple days ago. Unisys (uis) I thought for .63 what a deal it can't go much lower. I was wrong it is .38 today. It should go back up, as it's big company. A year form now I will be kicking myself for not buying more.Stan
 
I trust CEO's as much as I trust poloticians, which is not at all.

Now, lets get back to tractors, or are they being built overseas now.
 
I used the same logic when 9-11 happened. What kind of a country would possibly let the major airlines, the backbone of its business and travel, go under? Would the government not take over all airport security and relieve the airlines? I bought American Airlines, Delta, and United right after 9-11. Look what happened. You have got over-paid executives and over-paid corrupt unions, both of which are pulling down the auto industry, and both of which put Hussein Nobama in office. Tom
 
Common Stock for these companies is virtually worthless now.If the gov't does bail them out the gov't will hold Preferred Stock which means they are first in line when the car companies do eventually go belly up which they will because no bailout can make people buy their junky cars.
 
Its been building up to this point for last 40 years.Poor management--Overpaid workers---and a product that is poor quality compared to what others are making equals bankruptcy for any company
 
Joe Farmer ; You are now going to be totally investigated/interigated just like Joe da Plummer was !
 

Lets not forget who gave us NAFTA and alot of the problems we have now. Be honest we can't blame everything on George jr.

The Clinton years were good because it takes time for things to take hold in goverment and work, he didn't do it.

Everyone has the right to vote for who they think will get the job done "great". But when people vote based on what is preached on regular news cast or based on there skin color shame on you.

Your local news stations [networks] support a political party , so you never get a fair view of both sides. I feel this is conflict of intrest.


I also don't think the federal goverment will let the automakers crash. I live just outside Detolit Michigan and times are bad here.

They were saying on our local news talk radio [WJR] that 1 in 7 people are connected to the auto industry , that is a scary number.


I think they will file chapter 11 and restructure. What most people don't know is that the American auto makers are on a differnt tax structure then the import car companys building and selling cars here.

They pay less taxes then the the domestic automakers. There asking to be put on the same tax structure or make them pay the same.

FREE TRADE !!! Thanks Bill.
 
Tractor talk at the end....I agree, I think they will be around but not as they are today, which will be good. Gov bail out will NOT help them as they will not change anything. It will only be temp (it could help if credit opens up while they're blowing thru the bailout $) They must file chp 11 to fix things and that will only work if they are broken up and sold/merged. I'd be surprised if Renault/Nissan does mix in with Chrysler. GM will likely be trimmed down and Ford may be trimmed down and may merge as well (who????). This has been brewing for 50 some years. They didn't learn in the 70's when Toyota and Datsun started taking over with small-cheap cars that, hey aren't too bad... High oil costs and slick Willie's "let the banks finance everyone" put the straws on the camel's back when credit dried up. Fundamentally its a national problem. We (Americans) borrow too much money. Ok back to tractors... oh wait, its too cold to paint my sheet metal. Too much snow too...
 
good luck with that...
there's THREE places I'd not be putting my money right now.
The blackjack table has more predictable returns at the moment.

Rod
 
Bill, I don't understand why the Big 3 CEO's, when given the spotlight in Washington, didn't make the case about taxes. Foreign companies are given incentives to build factories here, while American companies are given tax incentives to move jobs out. Also foreign car makers coming here start with a younger work force and lower health care costs, and no retirees to support. In foreign countries companies don't pay employee health care (directly). Politicans are the biggest problem but they got a free pass.
 
Buying stock is like restoring old tractors. You buy high and sell low. (:^D
Tell the people that bought Kmart stock at a buck a share after they went bankrupt that it was the worst investment they could have made.
 
Well....the Dow Jones Industrial Average was stuck at around 3500 for the first 2 years of the Clinton administration. We have the same political makeup in Washington now and for the next 2 years.Things didn't turn around til the big change in 1994. So,putting more money in the market right now? No thanks,I'll wait until after the 2010 elections and see what happens then. I don't think we're anywhere near the bottom yet.
 
Canadian news media reports GM will chop thousands of jobs to get goverment money.Union officials have been told to get in line or else.Company officials told to make a product the public will buy or else.We then see usa news and auto officials are private jet flying to goverment meetings.Am on my way out the door to buy a new japanese auto.
 
I agree, Good time to get in if you got time to hold on to it. Wish I did, but I don't. To some of the others on this post, Why do you keep calling it a bail-out for the auto industry? It's not, They asked for a loan that would be paid back. Funny that H Paulson would give billions to AIG to insure the loans they were supposed to but didn't. Funny H paulson would give billions to the banks to ease credit which they haven't, but not a dime to keep manufacturing going and thousands of people working. And senitor Shellby must be a wizzard cause he can predict the future. rw
 
I cannot beleive you are that short sighted Joe! I can see it was bad management if 1 of the 3 were in trouble....but all 3! No, sorry something else brought that on.

Beside I cannot beleive you voted for a president that cannot put his hand on his heart when saying the Pledge of Alligance.
 
Mechanics tell me the 2 best vehicle makers are Honda and Toyota. Recently, a cabinetmaker told me that his (name withheld) American pickup had to have $2500 worth of warranty work before it reached 30K miles! One of the problems was a FWB that went out before 30K. On the other hand, I have nearly 160K on my Dodge Caravan and I have had to do absolutely NOTHING to it other than replace tires, brakes, a battery and, oh, yes, a cracked belt-tightener support. So, the US maker CAN do it, but it looks like maybe it's a lottery. I was on the lucky roll of the dice. The Japanese, with their nitpicky attention to detail, probably check everything that comes in, including wheel bearings(to get an idea of how you can make a really pretty sight out of something that usually looks like a rat's nest of hoses, pipes and wires, look under the hood of a Subaru--if ya like "pretty" machinery, there it is). I recently rented a Mercury Milan and was VERY impressed with a lot of things about it--tight steering, good handling, nice ride, good power, AND, as best I could tell, a quality build.
I'm about to write to all three of these Big Guys and tell 'em that they CAN come back--they've got good engineers--but the accountants have to let them invest in the future.
I'm of "that age"--I got my first license on my father's '41 Chev, and I drove lots of other cars and trucks made in the 30s, 40s and 50s--all made in the U.S.A. (there really weren't many other choices, except maybe a few imports available in NYC--absolutely NO dealer networks, so you were pretty much on your own if you had
one more than 50 miles from NY). The old American cars weren't very interesting, usually (but the '41 Buick Roadmaster had DUAL CARBS, and I thought that was REALLY, REALLY exciting; not that I could afford to own one). But...I think pretty much all American cars were well made until they started ramping up production in the late 50s and thereafter. Rumors get around, and I don't remember hearing, as I was growing up, that this or that car was a "piece of junk."
Even the Model T, with all its quirks, was not a piece of junk (I read an opinion on the net by a guy who had probably never been within a mile of a Ford T that the car was the "Yugo" of its day).
It's true you had to understand a few things about it to keep it working well, but it really was made of good materials and was carefully put together. They were one generation before my time, so I am going on having seen a number of them and on stories told me by people of my father's generation (he knew the T--broke his arm cranking one, as a matter of fact).
 
Traditional Farmer below, has it right. The good news is, the common stock can't go much lower; the bad news is, it won't get much higher, either, because any growth in value in the company will be sucked up in the guvment's preferred stock (if they do the bailout) or the "new" creditor's loans (if govt. doesn't bailout, the companies will go into Chapter 11, and you can bet they'll end up with a bunch of that AIG and bank bailout money, as any "new" loans to restructure get a super-priority collateral position). Read Mitt Romney's article in WSJ or New York Times a couple days ago- he hit it right on the money.
 
Joe: You ain't seen nothing yet, the real bargains are 12 months away. Try GM shares at $0.10 per dozen if indeed they still exist. No government is going to throw money at that, might give them a shoulder to cry on, that is about it.
 
Recalls by Toyota are way up, it seems that all their new plants around the world aren't building them as well as Toyota City in Japan. And Mitsubishi (I think) is still in trouble in Japan for not reporting to the government defects, instead they boxed up the complaints and hid them where they hoped inspectors wouldn't find them.
 
Americans would be better off keeping their money under their pillows. Wall Street=theft by corpoRAT ponzi schemes + an aiding and abetting government. Best thing to do is--nothing. Crash the economy, and all of us do absolutely nothing. Why work our butts off the to build wealth to have these miserable A*&%()! steal it? I think the ecnonomy is doing wonderfully, and it"s about time all these crooks drowned.
 
(quoted from post at 08:08:12 11/21/08) Its been building up to this point for last 40 years.Poor management--Overpaid workers---and a product that is poor quality compared to what others are making equals bankruptcy for any company

There's plenty of blame to go around. But the immediate problem was caused by the "perfect storm" that hit the industry:
1 - We were in a recession already. These are cyclic events that test the resiliency of ALL companies.
2 - Gas went sky-high because of WALL STREET SPECULATORS causing houselholds to cut back on purchases, including new cars. SUV sales fell through the floor.
3 - Poor mortgage decisions brought on by Federal government (CRA), WALL STREET GREED caused a credit crisis so people could not get loans, auto sales feel by over 25% instantly.

The auto-makers responded to the loss of sales in Big SUVs and trucks by adjusting their production schedules. But any company that sees sales fall month after month on a grand scale would be hard-pressed to continue. The Big 3 just can't cut costs fast enough.

Now, I am in agreement that the UAW is overpaid with lavish benefits unlike any unskilled worker group in the nation (including the unbelievably wasteful jobs bank). They are a big reason the Big 3 can't respond to a drop in revenue like most companies. The costs of laying UAW people off or closing a plant are HUGE due to the contract restrictions.

Auto exec pay is high, no doubt, but look at Wall Street execs and other Fortune 500 companies in comparison and it's probably average. Not saying I agree with it, just that it's not extremely out of whack.

That being said, the issue is fairness. We have an industry that is burdened like no other with government regulations on product performance (CAFE standards, safety regulations, emissions, etc) and has been hit with an unprecedented triple whammy and all they are asking for is a "BRIDGE LOAN", not a handout. Yet, you didn't hear the same outcry when Wall Street execs came to Congress. Yes, there was a little story on how much Lehman Bros ceo has made in the last few years (obscene compared to what the auto execs get) but that didn't threaten to hold up the $700 billion bailout of Wall Street.

The hullabaloo over the private jet issue is crap. Most Fortune 500 companies have corporate jets, leased or purchased. The Big 3 jets are also used to fly engineers and parts to the far-flung plants as well. I know. I've flown the Chrysler shuttle jets many times. It's just not used for execs.

Being a supplier, I see all the problems the Big 3 have, but I think that if GM is allowed to go into Bankruptcy at this time, the shock waves will ripple through the economy and make any recession longer or even slide into a depression faster than we are going now.

Supplier bankruptcies will follow within hours or days and the courts will be overwhelmed with cases. Every supplier is skating on thin ice now. If their payments are held up even by a day or two let alone wait for a bankruptcy judge to ok payment, their suppliers will be hurt, etc., etc. down the line. The dominos will fall fast and furious.

The Big 3 and economists in general do not expect us to pull out of this recession until at least 2010, late 2009 at best. If the bridge loan is not approved, look for a 5-10 year recovery period.

The foreclosure crisis has and will continue to be the biggest obstacle to a recovery. Until the housing market stabilizes and the glut of foreclosed homes works its way out of the market, new housing starts will not happen. And even then, people won't buy goods of any kind, let alone a house or car if they think their job is in jeopardy. That means carpenter, electricians, plumbers, etc. are not working and buying cars/trucks, etc. That means retailers are laying off clerks who are not buying goods, etc.

Yup, we've got a long way to go, but letting the Big 3 go under is not part of the solution.
 
Nobody knows for sure what is going to happen with Ford, GM, et. al.

Your call to buy sounds nice, but that's about all. It is a total crap-shoot.

Bill Ford - ex CEO of Ford, sold all his personal Ford stock last month - and if he still had it today - it'd be worth 1/4 or what it was. Ford Company- in essence - owns nothing. They mortgaged everything they own including the "Blue Oval" insignia last year. To the converse, GM has pretty much refused to take out mortgages and is now stuck in another way. No borrowed money on hand, and assets nobody wants to invest in - unless dirt cheap (some Chinese investors are ready to buy at a bottom dollar).

I'm going to assume that Bill Ford has a little more inside info than I do - and he bailed out of his own family company.

Neither you or I know if the bailout will happen. If it does - so what? If a car company isn't viable - it won't last, bail-out or no bail out. With the bail-out we just get extra inflation due to Feds printing more money. The UAW has announced they will NOT accept any pay cuts - so I say - screw the union and let things fall where they ought to.

Yeah, you might - possibly buy cheap - then the bail out will enable a temporary spike - and you MIGHT then sell with an increase - along with higher taxes on short-term capital gains.

I'll keep my money in my CDs that are getting 5% and my Money Market checking that is getting 3.5 %.
What I'd like to see - is a limited bail-out with a real plan only, not some BS make-believe plan by Pelozi and external_link. That would be based on the automakers declaring bankruptcy and reoragnizing - and putting the unions in their proper places. If the plan does not, at least, work on paper, then it makes no sense to hand out the money - that we will all pay for.
 
Let them fry in their oil. They took big oil money for years to give us poor quality vehicles that could get far better mpg. The technology has been there for years. They are tangled in the web they wove and the black widow is coming for them tough S*** ! For many self employed businesses every major election has always put them in a recession 2 years before during and 2 years after so where the H*** is their bailout! ???
 
I guess you DONT BELEIVE in ONE NATION UNDER GOD! Yes you are short sighted and dim witted.

Its people like you that are making this counry go to the Devil, only worry about yourself. I guess if I or anyone else on this fourm, or a neighbor needed prayers you would be no where to be found...But thats OK Joe . Ill pray for you!
 
I have been thinking about buy some stock myself. If you buy 1000 in each company and only two survive and the stock goes back to where they should $45 to $65 you can make a bundle of money even if you loose everything in one company.
But don't take my advice I thought Enron would be a good bet.
Walt
 
I really don't understand all this talk about "poor quality vehicles" built by U.S. manufacturers. I've owned quite a few American cars over the yrs. I had a 72'Chevy Vega for my first car. Supposedly that was a piece of junk. But it started everyday and took me where I wanted to go. Being my 1st car I did'nt always treat it the best, but it never failed me

I've owned 3 Pont. Gran Prixs. over the yrs. 2 bought new. Again, well built, comfortable cars. No problems with any of them. We now have a Dodge charger, another good car.

The new Chev Malibu is the best in it's class for fuel mileage. The myth, that's right the myth, of American cars being junk, has'nt been true since the mid to late 70s. The American car companies are the inovators, whose R+D ideas get adopted, or stolen by the Japanese car companys. Toyota does'nt have to carry the 800 lb. gorilla of unions on their back either.

Well, there's my rant, I guess now I'll hear from everybody who has had a windshield wiper go bad on their U.S made cars. Or, how my G.P.s were made in Canada. But I would never buy a Jap car, or motorcycle. I got a 74'HD, I don't see many 74' Honda's cruising around. Jack
 
I agree that the quality of US cars and trucks is way up. But, back in the early 70, it hit a record low - especially in 1973.

In regard to the Vega? I worked on many when brand new and they were, indeed, pieces of crap when put on a relative scale. Maybe you did better than the vast majority or owners - but that doesn't change anything. The aluminum cylinder bores are barely adequate for lawn mowers, much less a car. We had to sleeve many. That was a joke. Also, the fuel-pump safety switch that was constatly leaving Vegas dead-on-the-road? I drove a tow truck at the time, and used to carry a special Vega bypass wire - just to get the little junkers runnning. Also carried something similar to bypass failed ballast resistors on Mopar products.

Also - since you mentioned not seeing old Honda bikes on the road? I still have, and use, my 1965 305 Super Hawk, and my 1973 SL125 Twin. Both have been bullet-proof and haven't hardly done any repairs since I got them in the mid-70s. I also have a few British bikes (twins and triples) from the late 50s, and a 45 cube Harley. All of them have had extensive repairs over the years just to keep them chugging away.

I'm never been a big fan of "rice burners" over British Twins or Harleys. The latter are more fun to look at and to listen to. But, the old Honda bikes were worlds better in quality.
 
You've got the first line right. I bought a new 3/4 ton Chevy pickup in 1977. I'd had two Chevys before,a 68 and a 72,they weren't anything to brag about,but that 77 turned me off to EVER buying a GM pickup again. If they wanted my business,I guess they should have thought ahead. My 85 Ford diesel is still going strong.
 
You forget one thing. That jap car your buying wasas built in a plant that was probably paid for by the tax payers in that state. They can stay in business because of donated land, at least ten years of no taxes, and a lot of nice things. So you have paid a good price for that cheap car. Plus all the profit goes back to a foreign country.
 
Have you owned other makes of cars? German? Japanese? There is nothing like an "expert" who has only tried USA made cars, and then thinks they are high quality. Have you lived overseas? Driven overseas? Europe? Far East? If you have only lived here and only owned the cars you listed, then your opinion would be like me trying to pass judjment on the quality of the lunar lander. Tom
 
So is my 85 F250. The 6.9 purrs like a kitten but uses a lot of fuel. Doesn't help that I've got 4.10 axles and a C6 auto with no overdrive.
 
My '78 Goldwing put on a few thousand miles this season. The '58 BMW may get back on road again next year. 64 BSA chopper scheduled next. I am getting recovered from cancer treatment and can now hold them up again, main reason they were parked last 2 years. Old 80 Datsun engine still runs, same for mazda pickup- the rusted out framing can be blamed on road salt in winters in Iowa and Wisconsin, the little pontiac has plywood floor for same reason. RN
 
I'd wait. The market is going to bottom around 5000.

external_link will bail them out, but that will just postpone the inevitable, they will still go bankrupt and into court ordered reorganization.

Additionally, I think we're still in for some very heavy rolls, this is just the beginning.

I'm stocking up on dry good foodstuffs. I think the Mormons have had it right all this time. A year supply of food it a really good idea, especially now.
 
God does hear sinners. Mark 2:17 When Jesus heard it, he said to them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
 
I guess by your thinking God won't hear you either because EVERYONE is a sinner.

According to Scripture, everyone is guilty of sin: "There is no man who does not sin" (1 Kings 8:46). "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23)
The Bible says, "There is none righteous, not even one; there is none who understands, there is none who seeks for God; all have turned aside, together they have become useless; there is none who does good, there is not even one" (Romans 3:10-12).
 
BOUGHT MY FIRST STOCKS TODAY 100 SHARES GM & 99 SHARES OF GOODYEAR, BUY EM THRU ING (SHARE BUILDER) PS IAM 55 YRS OLD PS AGAIN BOUGHT EM BEFORE I EVER READ THIS!!!!!!!!!!
 
You might have to change your handle in a few years. :) 'richbinder2' or something? :)

--->Paul
 
You are right, 1 in 7 is a scary number. I say let them all go bankrupt. Didn"t GM file a while back? I think this was several years ago.

If employees and unions both would quite griping about what they don"t get paid and look at what they do get paid everyone would be better off. Some of these early retirement packages pay way too much, and people complain when they recieve them. Some of these auto workers need to wake up. There are people out there who don"t get to retire at all! Take EARLY retirement and hit the road! I'm totally unimpressed by someone who complains about working indoors at a plant for 30 or 40 years. Try working outdoors if you think indoor work is rough! I'm doubting any farmer gets the kind of pay or benefits that some of these people get.

The companies asked for failure when they let unions walk in the front door. There are reasons why alot of workplaces don"t have unions and don"t want anything to do with them!
 
Mostly owned GM products, some w/ over a 100K miles to start with. Cheap to fix, decent mileage.
The big bad automaker built all those SUVs, but they were selling them, so what, let somebody else make the profit? But they picked the wrong time to retool and why at the taxpayers expense? Should have used some SUV profits. Why don't they get it from a bank? Probably because now they're considered a bad investment.
 
1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

6"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces

God bless you and God bless America.
 
That's the same thing those loons from Kansas say. You know the ones that try to interupt the funerals of soldiers. The Patriot Guard keeps those wack jobs in check. Your not one of them are you?
 

Please don't play the victim after spouting your repent garbage.
You said
"IF YOU REPENT --- God will Bless America Automaticlly --- when some one like you make demands --- HE WILL NOT LISTEN TO SINNERS -- But will Curse them .... "

Are you nuts? please tell me what I need to repent for. Your nothing but a troublemaker You don't even know me You know nothing about me. You may claim to be some kind of sinless man of God and better than all of man kind but you fool no one.There was only one sinless man and he died so we could be forgiven for OUR SINS. I have a nephew serving in Iraq right now at this moment.It takes a special kind of person to bash their country and I have more respect for that young man who went over there even though he knew what the consequences might be than someone who wants to bash his own country and I don't care who you are. Thank you I'm through now and I hope you have a good evening.
 
My 77 Chevy C20 has 250000 miles on it.Road salt killed the chassis.Paid 1300.00 for it in 85.I put several exhaust systems on it, tires and brakes, starter and water pump.Easy to repair at home.Last good real trucks.My 96 F150 is loaded with junk items I dont need and very hard to work on.The Ford has 180000 on it with minor repairs.Putting a new oil filter on it is a nightmare.Just replaced the gas tank straps,lots of trouble with mixed metric nuts and bolts.Tank strap bolts are about 3/8s with 1/2 inch hex heads.Its plain to see Ford builds cars and trucks that are not repairable.My friends Ranger was a rusted mess under neath at 60000 miles.All spring hangers were shot and front end was gone.
 
Good morning to you also.I hope you have a swell day. I do my repenting before the Lord You need to get a life and worry about Joe and quit judgeing others less you be judged. I tried to have a reasonable conversation with you but you don't want to do that. YOU SHOULD REPENT,AMERICA SHOULD REPENT,REPENT OF YOUR SINS AND YOU DON'T KNOW THE WORD. IF YOU NEED MORE HELP JUST ASK. Edss! LOL
 
I make no claim to be an "expert". I'm just saying that American cars are not junk. I have not lived overseas, but I have been there, during my yrs. in the military. And I did see some junk driven over there, I would not sit in, much less drive or own. Excuse the he// out of me for defending American cars. Jack
 
I told you REPENT bla bla bla AND YOU DON"T bla bla bla JUDGEMENTS bla bla bla LEARN SOME bla bla bla TEACH YOU bla bla REPENT...REPENT...I MAKE... JUDGEMENTS... REPENT... JUDGEING BLA BLA BLA BLABBB

Your like a record thats stuck on stu__d.

Have a nice day and God bless America.
 
That's PATHETIC! Here you are preaching at me and now you go flying off on a hateful rant. You should REPENT immediately LOL. Chill out and Have a nice evening.



God Bless America!!
 
Who's Dr Phill? Hold on let me ask my wife............Wife says something to do with Oprah. Do you watch Oprah Joe?
 
No I don't watch much daytime TV. You sound like your such a pro at it. I'm gonna have to take your king of daytime TV word for it. So you watch Dr Phill every afternoon @ 3:00pm. Did you know they make a DR field and brush mower to. Probably not related though.

God Bless America!!!
 
We are now on page 7 Joe so just let me say It's been a hoot but we are gonna have to end this thread so I sincerely wish you well. Hope things continue to go good for you and may God Bless you. ED
 
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