Glad I don't own a Deere.........RANT and a half

[NCWayne]

Those that have seen my posts lately on the project I've been working on know that my customer bought me the cab off of a 9930 JD cotton picker to use as the operator's station. Since it already had a guage cluster, etc we decided to simply purchase the sending units required to make them work, since they don't care what engine they are used in, and make things really simple. How WRONG we were.

I've been working on equipment of all types most of my life so figuring out the majority of the wiring for the cluster was no problem. Thing is there are several additional wires that I believe are for the hydraulic temp, and air restriction warning lights, etc that aren't as straight forward to figure out just bench testing the thing. Usually this would be no problem as wiring diagrams for most equipment are readily available in a service manual, or worst case from a dealers access to service information. In this case there is absolutely NOTHING. I have called numerous dealerships, including one that should have helped, if for no other reason, due to the amount of money spent with them, and got nothing there but the answer that, basically, 'everything just plugs together so all we do is plug in the new pieces'. In other words that tells me that the dealership mechanics are nothing but glorified parts changers. I finally got one (that neither myself or my customer has ever dealt with), and the lady I spoke with there really seemed to care about helping me. Even then the info they were able to get only pertains to the operator presence safety system. I even went as far as to call Deere's technical line and got nothing but an answer that there was a little bit of info but it was simply "too technical". To me this means that all they probably had was the same info sent to me by the other dealer.

I don't currently own any Deere equipment and given my experience with this thing I don't think I will ever own a piece of Deere equipment unless it's something OLD. I say this because it appears that if you own a new piece of equipment and have a problem, it's gonna cost you out the butt, especially if you have an electrical issue with the thing, because all the "technician" will be able to do is change parts because he has limited to no product support for their products as it pertains to the technician being able to actually troubleshoot a problem with the thing. So, when a short blows a $1000 module somewhere, and the technician doesn't have a clue where to look for the short because he has absolutely no wiring diagrams to go by.

For an OEM as large as Deere to offer such pi$$ poor product support for their equipment is one of the most stupid things I have ever seen in all the years I've worked on equipment. I mean I have seen OEM's where you had to buy a $1000 assembly to get a $200 part, etc, etc, and that alone isn't the brightest thing to do, in my opinion, but at least they all offered wiring and hydraulic schematics for all of their machines so you could figure out that you needed to buy that $1000 part. In Deere's case I guess offering that info is just asking too much...........

Add onto that the fact that I spent several hours Monday trying to find somebody that has some 10 guage wire in a length over 8 to 10 feet with no luck....unless I bought a 100 foot roll that no one had in stock.......... Then I spent part of yesterday and this morning looking for some standard GM/Packard type 56 terminal ends for both 16/14 guage and 10 guage wire, in quantities of more than the one two on the shelves at numerous places that would have caused me to drive 100 miles plua to get and still not had enough to do the job...... with no luck. Even called several Deere agg dealers since the things were in the cab wiring harness and again, no luck.......... So, I finally just called Waytek this morning order enough for this job and some for stock so I don't go through this crap again next time I need some of them.........

Used to be mfgs supported their equipment, dealerships were there to help out when needed, parts were readily available, etc, etc, etc. It seems that anymore all of that was just a dream. The OEM's are forced to come up with so much new stuff they can't keep up, so they outsource many parts and complete systems on their machines. Because of that outsourcing they only know how the part interfaces with the other parts but then know absolutely nothing about the actual part or system itself. Then they make so many different machines and parts nowdays they can't keep 'everything' in stock or their warehouse would be the size of a small country....and on, and on, and on.

Being in the repair industry I could rant all day about how technology has ruined things for everybody but it would do absolutely no good. I say that because until people get it through their head that SIMPLE equals reliable, and stop demanding that the OEM's keep them happy with heated seats, Bose surround sound systems, 'self operating' everythings, etc, etc, etc, etc, the machines aren't going to do anything but get more and more technical. When they get so technical and expensive that the typical owner can't afford for one to break down, then maybe things will change...but even then the only thing that is gonna happen is the owner is going to raise his prices, the dealer is going to raise his prices, the consumer will be paying more, and it'll just turn into a cascade of price increases across the board......all because somebody wanted to make sure their a$$ was warm in the winter and not have to bother wearing heavy clothes to so it....


CAN YOU TELL I'M FRUSTRATED DEALING WITH THIS WHOLE MESS YET????????.....LOL Oh well, this rant might not do anybody else any good, but I feel better now.... better get back to work and get some more parts mounted.

 

[cumminspuller]

I can say I have been in your shoes on part of that. When I worked at Deere if you had to call Deere tech or what ever it was called you usually never got anywhere and were better off trying stuff yourself.

However on the wiring itself for a 9930 this is my experiences. Nobody wants to work on them period. We had one customer that still ran one up until 2 years ago. (I think it finally just died) If any of the dealers wanted to help I would say they should be able to. We still have the original manuals for those pickers and plus they are on Deere's service advisor.(Deere's computer system with all the tech manuals on it)

The dealerships are getting to where they want to bring everything in so they can work on it and bill out the hours just like car dealerships. The dealer I worked for is bad about that unless you talk to some of the mechanics themselves.

Chris

 

[buickanddeere]

What do you tell people who walk into your shop and expect you to drop everything . So you can take 1/2 an hour to give them your time, materials and info for nothing? And it"s not just you, it"s a whole line of people wanting free"bee"s. Now walk into a Agco , Ford , Cat, GM or Dodge dealership and ask for the same free stuff. What do you expect ? Suck it up and purchase the service manual on the CD from 1-800-522-7448 and problem solved. Is the problem the equipment or that you don"t understand the equipment? Sound like the same story that Blacksmiths cried as the horse was replaced by the car and tractor. They had to get out of thier comfortable rut. And face and challenge , uncertainy and fear of the unknown.

 

[Vernon in Ks]

Wayne it"s not just Deere. They all are too technical and don"t stop with ag equipment. It"s come to a point that the only thing I seem to be able to do is change the oil and filter and blow the air filter out. A lot of this stuf is built overseas and even if I had the tech manual it would be in Jenglish (japanese conversion to english) you get the picture. The thing that gets me the most is the 3pt on my tractor. used to be there was ONE lever to raise or lower now I have to get the book out to see if I have everything set so it will work for what I want to do. no lever just switches knobs and buttons. my rant is over now also. Thank you for listening

 

[Catskill Pete]

Why do I get the feeling you are not buying your own? Unless you are with a dealership the manuals have become cost prohibitive. Especially for a one shot repair to a piece of equipment that you don"t own or are not going to keep.

 

[farmer boy]

I don"t think that"s the problem here. If Wayne spent all day trying to figure something out he"d likely have a new manual paid for. By what he"s saying, Deere doesn"t have the diagrams available AT ALL. Several poeple have come up with NOTHING. Read his post, the part where it says "In Deere"s case I guess offering that info is just asking too much.........." Right back to your usual ways of offering no help, just telling someone to buy the manual.

 

[buickanddeere]

Add the cost to the customer"s bill. If they don"t like it go else where. Manuals are not expensive anyways . What does just two hours of wasted shop time cost up front and in lost production? A whole lot more than a tech manual. A long line of penny wise and pound foolish people out there.

 

[NCWayne]

Let's see, what happens when someone askes me to stop and give them some free help.....I GIVE IT TO THEM.... Yes, I give it to them absolutely free, just like I give advice to people on here for free if I know the answer. I have always done it that way, and maybe that's why I'm not filthy, sticking rich right now because I actually care about my customer. In my mind what I may lose in the way of time and money for the few minutes of my time more than make up for itself in the word of mouth advertising it gains.

As far as walking into any other dealership asking for info, and getting it, I do it all the time. Most dealers don't mind helping independents because their guys spend enough time, and make enough money working on the new stuff that they can't, and have no desire to keep up with the older stuff. Without someone taking care of the older stuff they would lose out on millions a year in parts sales, and no one want's to lose money.

As far as 'getting out of my rut', I have done wiring far more complex than this. For instance I spent nearly 3 weeks completely rewiring the controls in an American crane. In that case I had to track down all of the intermittent shorts caused by the wrong wire being soaked in oil and the coatings breaking down and rerun those circuits, deal with industrial switches on everything (((that meant a stack about 4 inches high for the ignition switch, and they all had to be stacked properly and of the right type to work when stacked together, and then the same switches used on everything else that had to be done the same way)))). Not to mention having to work around parts of the system that were origionally automatic but no longer functioned because parts of the computer that controlled that weren't working anymore and the computer wasn't available. Because of that I had to make those funstions operate manually but still be interlocked with the other systems so the thing couldn't be overloaded. In other words this instrument cluster should be a piece of cake. Thing is for the crane I had a wiring diagram and an OEM that didn't mind sending schematics when requested. Nor did they mind putting a tech support guy on the line for an hour to figure out that the schematic sent out with the machine had an extra diode shown in it that didn't need to be there and was causing power to feed back into a control causing it not to function properly.

So, no, I have no problem repairing something if I have the proper diagnostic tools, but asking for someone to troubleshoot something without a wiring diagram is like asking someone to make a specific kind of cake with no ingredient list. While it may be possible with alot of expermentation, it would be alot easier with a recipe. That said it's kind of stupid for me to spend well over $100 for the CD or $200 plus for the paper manual (((((yes, been there, looked at that already, this is the kind of thing I do for a living remember))))) when the last dealer I called was nice enough to look at the manual while on the phone with me and tell me straight up that there was no wiring diagram in it at all.

 

[Mike M]

How many cotton pickers are used in NC ? I'm guessing not many and here in Ohio NONE ! so none of the dealers would need to have the book for that model. All of my Deere service manuals have wiring diagrams in them ? My newest one is for my lawn mower made in the 1990's however F725. I also have one for 445 which should be newer yet ? but I don't own that mower.

 

[buickanddeere]

If some body really wanted the info, it's out there. If it costs more than $20 and takes more than 5 minutes the fussing starts. Do you think mouches should all thier stuff for free ? 1-800-522-7448

 

[wisbaker]

Three factors 1- big business is trying to make every thing meet the costumer's expectations, meet state and federal requirements, minimize their liability (in case someone does something like pick up a running rotary mower by the deck sides thinking they can also trim their bushes with the same machine) at a cost that allows them to be competitive. 2- protect their trade secrets or at least make it more difficult for some one to reverse engineer their stuff or re-purpose it into something they didn't build, don't control but still could get sued for if someone does something stupid with it. 3- try to make it right and meet the customer's need out of the box so other businesses (dealers and mechanics)don't have as much input into customer satisfaction (again out of their control). A lot of our machines are more complex and they change a lot more and quicker, they do things to provide features at a lower cost, with the rapid change of technology and various taxes on business inventory the cost of supporting old equipment becomes prohibitive. And of course they'd rather see old equipment scrapped and you purchase new for two reasons 1- they want to sell you a new one 2- when the old one is scrapped they loose liability, the old machine may not meet current safety standards and if someone gets hurt they're more than willing to sue the manufacturer because it's "faulty" because it doesn't meet current standards that may not of been in effect when the machine was built. Witness the law suit the family of a police officer filed against Ford because Crown Vic P71 cruiser got rear ended by a drunk at 70MPH and the gas tank ruptured and the cop got burnt up. The Crown Vic exceeded the standard at the time, the drunk didn't get sued because he didn't have anything worth taking so Ford becomes the villain and writes a really big check.

I understand your frustration for their lack of support, but service is a causality of reduced customer loyalty. Look at the auto industry years ago our dealers fixed a lot of stuff "under warranty" that wasn't really warranty but they did it to keep their customer. Now the customer is more willing to go somewhere else and buy a different brand so dealer is less worried about keeping them happy past the customer survey.

 

[buickanddeere]

I "ll challenge you on complexity. How about eight separate nuclear reactors with redundant control and protection system. Each system having three totally independent channels. With all reactors sharing a common vacuum building and vacuum duct. Or we could talk about either the 4KV or the control side of the three gas turbine generators that can supply class III backup power to one or both reactor"s they are paired with?

 

[buickanddeere]

I "ll challenge you on complexity. How about eight separate nuclear reactors with redundant control and protection system. Each system having three totally independent channels. With all reactors sharing a common vacuum building and vacuum duct. Or we could talk about either the 4KV or the control side of the three gas turbine generators that can supply class III backup power to one or both reactor"s they are paired with?

 

[jd6620]

"You know, boys, a nuclear reactor is a lot like a woman. You just have to read the manual and press the right buttons." -Homer Simpson

 

[Ultradog MN]

No sense arguing Wayne. As we all know JD equipment, tech support, manuals and parts are "practically perfect in every way".
I think we should call them Mary Poppins tractors.

 

[Owen Aaland]

It's starting to sound like this cab originally had a control module that controlled the instrument panel and all the senders sent their output to the control module.

I'm sure all those components were made by outside vendors but that still is no reason for Deere not to provide service information. If you could find out who made it you might have a chance of getting more information from them but with it being an "obsolete" system there isn't much incentive for an outside vendor to provide any information.

 

[buickanddeere]

Julie Andrews. One of the most talented, classy, decent and beautiful women ever.

 

[Anonymous-0]

call me at link_disallowed days ask for larry -we sell wire in any length---10 ga is .20 a ft --wire ends 1-100 .20 each we sell service and try to help people with various projects

 

[4020deereboy]

So if you have the manuals is there a diagram in them or not?

 

[Anonymous-0]

Woman not women nuclear boy.

 

[Ultradog MN]

No,
In the context of his sentence women is correct.
BTW, Audrey Hepburn was right up there too.

 

[tractorfixer1]

Call Green South 7063422332. They should be able to help. Ask for Daniel.

 

[4020deereboy]

Here's a pic of the manual index and a listing of over 40 pages of the non existent wiring diagrams

 

[NCWayne]

Thanks for posting this. What manual, exactly, is this from? I ask tat because I looked at the Deere site while looking for a manual and it gave a publication number, but when I went looking for used manual for far less than the $200 plus wanted for a new one, I found several manuals all listing the same pub number on them. In one case it indicated on the front it was only for the engine. Just trying to figure out exactly what I need because spending money on the wrong manual would be stupid on my part, but money spent on the right one would be well worth it because of the time it'll save me having to wire in extra citcuits to handle the warning system.

 

[NCWayne]

Yes, there are cotton fields and cotton picking combines here in NC. In fact there are several relatively large fields (relative being larger than some of to other fields in my area) within just a few miles of me, and one of about 20 acres right across from the end of the dead end I live on that often gets planted in cotton in rotation with soybeans, corn, and whatever else they decide they want to plant that year.

That said the one dealer that gave me the least amount of help was recommended by a LARGE, commercial farmer who my customer, also a LARGE commercial farmer often does contract work for to get what they want off of his fields in rotation with the crops he grows. In other words both outfits do tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of dollars worth of business with two or the dealerships I called on their behalf. In other words their reluctance, or inability to give me information should not have been due to a lack of being 'paid for their time'........

 

[NCWayne]

I said nothing about the 'complexity' of the wiring in my first post, only that Deere was offering NO support on one of their products for something as simple as a wiring diagram for a specific machine, and/or just the instrument cluster. It was your response telling me to 'get out of the rut I was comfortable in' that prompted my response. To that end, my response about wiring the crane was simply my way of telling you that I have, and routinely do, far more complex wiring than this, and that it's not a problem as long as you have the proper technical information to work with. Heck when doing industrial maintenance in years past I actually did get to do alot of troubleshooting on systems with absolutely no diagrams. Then there were the systems where the wires changed colors at every juction box, the ones that would make the circuit intermittently through the moisture in the conduit, the ones so old they still had vacuum relays and that would break and fix themselves when you went to the shop for parts, etc, etc, etc that often presented great challenges to troubleshoot. To me that kind of thing was fun. In this case I have already figured out the majority of the wires but there are a couple that don't work like I have to assume they should but I have no way of knowing wether the problem is the way I hooked them up or a bad circuit board inside the cluster. A wiring diagram would go a long way toward making this a really simple project to deal with.

As far as a nuke plant goes, unfortunately I wasn't able to go into the Navy's nuke machinist mate program because I have a 'color deficiency', but all of my test score were well above the level's they required for the program. Instead I went into the same field as a coventional MM so I too have worked on the systems used in steam plants, just not nuclear ones. In my case the largest was aboard the USS America. While the MM's were more in charge of out turbines than anything, all of the plants were interconnected for redundancy. In other words to stand some of the watches I stood we had to literally trace out and draw every system, including every valve in every system, in every space showing interconnects, etc, etc, etc. We also had to know both the operation of the boiler on the 'BT' side of things, as well as the MM (turbine) side of things which were ultimately responsible for. Too we had to at least which generators, etc were available as part of the electrical side of things, which distilling plants were available and how to send them to one particular tank or another. Basically we had to know all of the the systems and interconnects on 8, 1200 psi Babcox and Wilcox oil fired boilers providing 1200 psi of superheated steam to power 4 HP and 4 LP turbines, all of the associated systems including the main and aux feed pumps, the DFT's, the condensate pumps, the main and aux lube oil systems, the control air systems, all the associated cooling systems for the main and the aux turbines, as well as the piping, expansion tank, etc, etc for steam going to the cats, etc, etc, etc.

So, you see, complexity doesn't bother me a bit as I have been there and done that too. In fact I made E6, first increment, the first time I took the test, in 5 years, because of what I knew, and not the amount of award (kiss a$$) points, PNA points, etc that were added to the final test score. But that was all 20 years ag, and since I have learned and done far more than I ever knew back then so don't tell me about working on something complex.

In the case of this project other than the actual engineering of the hydraulic system, which I started doing but begged off of due to my lack of access to the needed information on the existing parts of the system, and the problems it was causing in regard to the time constraints on this project, I am doing everything. By that I mean by the time I am done I will have done the design, fabrication, machine work, wiring, plumbing on the hydraulics, the A/C, the painting, and pretty much any and everything else that will need to be done to get this thing operational. Find many other guys out there nowdays that would even attempt to do all of it on their own.

That said, I don't typically brag about the stuff I do because I know I am not the 'smartest guy out there' nor am I alone in doing all of the things I can do. However I would venture a guess, based on the majority of both dealership and independent mechanics I know, that you'd be hard pressed to find but a small percentage of guys that can 'do it all', or have the desire to 'learn it all' as the need to do so arises ......

Ok, I'm done now......

 

[NCWayne]

Yep, he can dog on me some, but I wil back him up and say his grammer is correct in this instance.....

 

[NCWayne]

Nope, no control module/s, at least as far as I can tell from looking at the parts manuals. This cluster is basically a standard design where the sending units vary the resistance to ground to operate the guages. I have been able to get the guages proper working but still have a few wires that SHOULD go to the warning lights that I can't seem to get to work properly regardless of what I have tried. Problem is without knowing how it's supposed to work, or was wired origionally, anything I do is just an educated guess (which I have run out of), and otherwise just a royal PITA.

 

[4020deereboy]

I found the manual on eBay ill get a listing and get back to you

 

[4020deereboy]

When
you say its just for the engine yes it lists those manuals as other manuals you can get for the machine but the service manual will have all the info you need I don't know why they list those other manuals because it will cover every component of the machine in one manual. The manual number is. Tm1283 there are several on eBay this one is 50 dollars free shipping it is item number 120890304721

 

[NCWayne]

Thanks, I had seen that one earlier, so I know the manuals on the front of that particular one are just other pubs. In other words, the 1283 is the same pub number that I had been looking for but which part of it? The problem is that based on all of the different manuals with that number I've looked at, there appear to be several different manuals, or volumes of the same complete manual, that seem to have the same pub number.

So, where did you get the copy of the page that you posted, and does it have a diagram or just say in the index that there is an electrical section in the manual when, in fact, that section might not actually be in that particular book. I say that because I know service manuals often come in several volumes but the first one always seems to have an index telling you what is in the other volumes also. So, between that, and several dealerships that all tell me that there are no diagrams in their manuals, it still makes me a bit gun shy when it comes to buying one....

 

[Stovepipe]

I've had an independent mechanic work on my deere, and tell me the dealer was less than helpful. We had spent plenty of coin at said dealer. They want the business in their shop.

 

[4020deereboy]

The guy said there are several
fold out wiring diagrams in it for the cab and other systems . All the manuals with 1283 number should be the same manual some will have a different style cover depending on when they were printed but a 1283 should be a 1283

 

[JDseller]

NC Wayne: The only thing you need to do is buy/get a service manual. They are: TM1283 paper book form $215 or TM1283CD Cd for $110. The TM1283 is on any JD dealer's service adviser computer. This manual has complete wiring diagrams. TM1283 is the complete manual for the machine. There are no other parts/sections you will need to figure out the wiring.

Here are the part numbers for the senders you will need:

AH139059 Temperature sender $64.90
RE15583 Oil pressure sender $49.43
AN190352 Fuel Gauge sender $91.34

Now as for what the dealerships told you. I have a feeling that you must not have any relationship with any of the ones you called. When I was a service manager it made a big difference WHO called for free information. If they dealt with the store, even if it was just buying a few parts then I would try to help all I could. If they shopped all over the USA and never bought much from the store than my schedule might just be real full. I have gotten burnt too many times helping those who go else where to spend their money.

The other BIG problem is that you just called them to get them to give out information to you over the phone for free. Why not go in person and just ask them politely to print you a copy of the wiring diagram from their service Adviser computer????? Any agricultural JD dealer in the USA would have it in the service adviser computer.(I just checked with my local JD dealer. The complete wiring diagram is right in their service pack. I know they never have sold/serviced a cotton picker here in Iowa) I have almost never refused to do it for someone that took the time to asked me in person. I almost never would just do it as a result of a phone call from someone I did not know.

In this case you are building a multi thousand dollar unit. I don't think it would break the budget to buy a used manual or even a new CD.

Just another thought. Most guys/mechanics like to be involved in something different. Did you asked any JD dealer Mechanics that you know personally to see if they could help you get a print out of a wiring diagram??? I have only worked at JD dealers but I have contacts at just about all the other brands dealerships to get help when I need it. I also would try to help them if I could too.

Bad mouthing a brand on here is not really going to get you a lot of help from people. If I was in NC it would not be hard for me to figure out who you are from the uniqueness of this project. If I was a JD mechanic or service manager and I read this post then I would be much less likely to EVER help you as you bad mouthed my brand/dealership. Try nice and polite an you should be able to get the help you need.

 

[RodinNS]

Most of Deere's manuals are also available by download for a bit more than the difference of the cost of printing if you've got a decent laser printer... I would guess that this one would be in the 70 dollar range via download.
That said... I've also seen manuals (CNH) with wiring diagrams that I would describe as nothing less than deplorable. Even after having spent the money on the manual set I find some of those diagrams leave a LOT to be desired. I've got one here for the LS series skid loaders and it depicts everything going through a harness and ending at a component without (in some instances) any indication of what it does or how it's connected electrically.
I'd also guess that you're probably dealing with a Canbus system in that cab?
Even more joy....

Rod

 

[massey333]

I don't believe it would be only Deere on this.No company is going to give out too much info for someone taking a "junk" piece of their equip.and mounting it on ????? or competitors equip.and maybe open themselves up to a lawsuit for something they have-had no control over.

 

[NCWayne]

Like I said, I tried numerous dealerships, including the ones that my customer buys their parts from (and they typically buy multiple machines, and spend an ungodly amount of money per year with Deere), I had my customer try his contacts (but he didn't really know what to ask for), and every request but the one where I got the print of the troublewhooting guide for operator presence system got me the same answer. "There is no wiring diagram". That is the main reason for my rant, Deere not providing support for their products, more so than anything else. Notice I never mentioned any particular dealership because I assumed it wasn't teir fault they didn't have the info. Heck I didn't even specify any particular one of the dealerships except the one that did help me and the one where I basically got told there was nothing and then found out by what was said that that the guy probably never even bothered to look. I've have worked on probably 80% of the different brands of equipment out there in both the construction and ag field,and have NEVER recieved had anything like this happen before. So, wether anyone likes it or not, I have absolutely no problem bad mouthing any brand that treats their customers, or future customers the way I, and my customer, have been treated over something as simple as a wiring diagram for a machine.

That said I will often go to the dealership for info when I have an immediate need for it. In this case I didn't need any of the info the day I called, I was just trying to plan ahead. In fact the first couple of calls sere placed nearly two weeks ago and I got the same answers then, so I had my customer try. Like I said earlier though he didn't really know what I needed so he got nothing the same as I did. That said, but just as often as I've gotten info by going to the dealership, I have also been able to obtain the same info over the phone on nearly every brand I have worked on. Many of the brands I've worked on don't even have dealerships in my area anymore and rthe closest ones are an 8 hour trip there and back, or in some cases across the country from me. That being the case a phone call is the only way to get info for those machines. Too, as you say, nowdays the info is typically on their computers. Because of that it's usually easier for them click a few buttons and email something than to spend time and money on materials to print it out. Too, when I call I never demand they send anything right now, so other than taking a minute to answer the call I am not taking up any of their time when they have something else that needs to be done. Typically I ask for what I need and only that they send it to me when they get the opportunity to do so. Usually this means I get the needed information within the next day or so, and that is just fine with me because I know they are doing me a favor.

That all said, be it Deere as a company, or the individual dealerships, my rant stands reinforced because it appears that the info I need was readily available, and I, and my customer were both still told it wasn't. Heck, I didn't mention it before because at the time it really didn't matter, but on my call to one of the dealerships I even asked about buying the service manual and was told there was no reason to because the diagrams weren't in it. So, for thoise that dog me for not buying the manual, there's another fact for you to chew on.

In the end I've worked on equipment long enough that I have a relationship established with the majority of the dealerships I routinely buy from, and typically have no problem getting info from those that I don't because the know that the info they give is going to result in parts sales for them. Too I have never had problems getting info from places regardless of wether I bought parts or not because it's just good customer relations to help a potential customer. In other words I've been at this game long enough that I know pi$$ poor customer service from a dealer when I see it and in this case it is well below anything I have ever seen.

 

[NCWayne]

What kind of lawsuit could possibly come from wiring up the guage cluster, regardless of what it was setting on???? When I get the diagram, which apparently is available, they guages will be wired and there will still be no grounds for any kind fo lawsuit.....

 

[Mike M]

They should of had the manual then since it is cotton country. They should of let you borrow it. Or look at it. Mine does.

Though it is getting worse all the time. Not like it used to be.

 

[massey333]

If the Mfg.tells-shows you how to do it(not their equip) and a accident or fire and someone gets hurt-killed,some lawyer could find just cause for suit,but if you take it from a book they are somewhat relieved and it falls on you as causing whatever by your designing and not theirs.Seems foolish but sadly too true.

 

[JDseller]

It would appear that you have a dealer problem. The wiring diagrams are in the service manual and the service adviser computer program. I looked at them today while I was BSing with a friend that I used to work with. He was having some issues on square baler knotters and I helped him out. I don't know if they can email the diagrams or not. I do know they can print them out.

I am glad I don't have the issues that many of you seem to have with your local dealers. I am lucky in that I have four JD dealers within thirty miles. Three Ford dealers in fifteen. Three CIH dealers in thirty miles. Also now have three Agco dealers in thirty miles. I guess having a lot of live stock that lets smaller farms still make reasonable money is a God send.

 

[NCWayne]

If you actually saw the diagrams and have a relationship with a dealer that will actually let you look, could you possibly ask them to email me that diagram? Given what I've been through, and the time crunch not finding the info has left me under, you have no idea how much it would be appreciated. I'm still looking to get a manual ASAP, but my email is open if you can do that for me.

That all said, I actually stopped at yet another Deere dealership Thurs morning with the intention of asking about the diagram. Because the service guys were at lunch I wound up just standing arpund shooting the breeze with one of the parts guys while he helped me find a few of the wire connectors I needed to get the rest of the wiring going. Based on our conversation it seems to me that Deere's biggest problem is that they simply have gotten WAY TOO BIG, and have their hands into WAY TOO MANY PRODUCTS. I knew there have nearly always been 'yellow Deere'/construction equipment dealers, and 'green Deere'/agricultural dealers. Nowdays it goes WAY, WAY beyond just that division. Nowdays there are dealers for homeowner equipment, commercial equipment, gold course equipment, construction equipment, farm equipment up to a certain HP, farm equipment from the lower HP and larger, and on and on. Within those divisions the dealerships then carry certain types of equipment. For instance the dealership I stopped at handled the large ag equipment, including combines, but NOT cotton picking combines. Saddly, to make matters worse, if you owned one piece of each type of equipment you'd have to go to a different dealership for each individual piece because Deere makes it a serious violation of company policy to even order parts for a class/type of equipment you haven't paid their licensing fee for.

While I understand the differences between construction and ag equipment, and that many companies with both product lines do seperate the two, me it's just taking things a bit too far when you can't go to a 'green' Deere store and get information and/or buy parts for any piece of 'green' Deere equipment.

 

[Ozlander]

(quoted from post at 14:51:10 05/16/12) I "ll challenge you on complexity. How about eight separate nuclear reactors with redundant control and protection system. Each system having three totally independent channels. With all reactors sharing a common vacuum building and vacuum duct. Or we could talk about either the 4KV or the control side of the three gas turbine generators that can supply class III backup power to one or both reactor"s they are paired with?

If you're so smart, how come you double posted?

Just asking.

 

[buickanddeere]

(quoted from post at 15:53:29 05/18/12)

(quoted from post at 14:51:10 05/16/12) I "ll challenge you on complexity. How about eight separate nuclear reactors with redundant control and protection system. Each system having three totally independent channels. With all reactors sharing a common vacuum building and vacuum duct. Or we could talk about either the 4KV or the control side of the three gas turbine generators that can supply class III backup power to one or both reactor"s they are paired with?

If you're so smart, how come you double posted?

Just asking.

Large thumbs and small iPhone screen inside a building with borderline cell service