Grasping at straws

[DPittman]

Posting this here because this is the truck I drag the tractors around with.
Working on a 1999 Dodge 3500 5.9 Cummins 2wd 5 speed. Steering box was sloppy and leaking oil badly. Order a reman along with new Ps pump and a vacuum pump reseal kit.
Take everything apart and put it all back together with minimal problems. Keep in mind the vacuum and PS pumps only go together one way otherwise you destroy the vacuum pump.
Put fluid in and work the steering a little bit to try and get the box to start pulling fluid in. That doesn’t work so I started the truck and let it run for a little bit and absolutely no fluid gets pumped. Bad pump, right?
Three pumps now and the fourth one is new and none of them will pump. I’ve cracked the high pressure lines to relieve any air blockage, put the old hose back on, blew through all of hoses to eliminate any blockages elsewhere and today I took the vacuum pump back off to make sure that shaft was not broken and it’s not.
Cannot fathom four bad pumps in a row even though I know the bad part numbers are up in the industry. Have consulted with the gurus in my area with no results. Hoping someone here has had this same problem and found a solution. I’m am tired of laying under this thing. Thank you
Just to be clear, the issue itself is no PS fluid is coming from the pump
280000 on the truck if that matters in

 

[used red MN]

Just to be clear, the issue itself is no PS fluid is coming from the pump

I assume that you loosened the pressure hose to determine no fluid is being pumped? I used to work for a baking company that had delivery vans with 4BT Cummins engines which is basically the same as the 5.9 Cummins with 2 less cylinders. To change the pump did you have to pull the gear off of the PS pump shaft and have to press it back on? Just wanting to know if you are using the same original gear and you are pulling it back on not driving it? Back to pulling the hose loose to verify pressure or flow? If this was not done I would recommend jacking up the front end and turning the wheel back and forth to see if that will get it to function.

 

[rustred]

Posting this here because this is the truck I drag the tractors around with.
Working on a 1999 Dodge 3500 5.9 Cummins 2wd 5 speed. Steering box was sloppy and leaking oil badly. Order a reman along with new Ps pump and a vacuum pump reseal kit.
Take everything apart and put it all back together with minimal problems. Keep in mind the vacuum and PS pumps only go together one way otherwise you destroy the vacuum pump.
Put fluid in and work the steering a little bit to try and get the box to start pulling fluid in. That doesn’t work so I started the truck and let it run for a little bit and absolutely no fluid gets pumped. Bad pump, right?
Three pumps now and the fourth one is new and none of them will pump. I’ve cracked the high pressure lines to relieve any air blockage, put the old hose back on, blew through all of hoses to eliminate any blockages elsewhere and today I took the vacuum pump back off to make sure that shaft was not broken and it’s not.
Cannot fathom four bad pumps in a row even though I know the bad part numbers are up in the industry. Have consulted with the gurus in my area with no results. Hoping someone here has had this same problem and found a solution. I’m am tired of laying under this thing. Thank you
Just to be clear, the issue itself is no PS fluid is coming from the pump
280000 on the truck if that matters in

who is the guru's ? have you actually went to the dodge dealer and asked them some questions ? with the pressure hose cracked it should be spraying oil out, even though its not necessary. dont think i have seen this pump so just generalizing. dont know if your oil canister is separate from the pump , or the pump is in the canister ?

 

[TerryfromSWIowa]

Have you tried turning wheels lock to lock?

 

[rustred]

Have you tried turning wheels lock to lock?

jacked up on stands is even better.

 

[DPittman]

who is the guru's ? have you actually went to the dodge dealer and asked them some questions ? with the pressure hose cracked it should be spraying oil out, even though its not necessary. dont think i have seen this pump so just generalizing. dont know if your oil canister is separate from the pump , or the pump is in the canister ?

Pump and reservoir one unit. Gurus are people I know that work on this stuff for a living. I’m not real proud of our Dodge dealership but I will try

 

[DPittman]

Have you tried turning wheels lock to lock?

Yes

 

[Tx Jim]

With engine operating apply low pressure, short bursts of compressed air into PS reservoir neck with remainder of neck area blocked off with a shop towel. I've used that compressed air method on some diesel engine fuel systems that were difficult to get the fuel flowing through inj pump while attempting to bleed air out of fuel system

 

[rustred]

i would say its just a matter of working the air out. gotta keep at it with the wheels off the ground and go to full stop in each direction.dont know how long you worked at it .

 

[rustred]

Yes

for how long ?

 

[Keith True]

First,do you get a good vacuum if you put your thumb over the hose while running?

 

[NDIHC]

I have had poor luck with aftermarket power steering pumps. On one car, which was a trade in, same brand as our dealership sold, the ps pump was leaking. The sales manager didn't want to put a bunch of money into the car and wanted to use an aftermarket pump at $180 as opposed to a new OE pump from our parts department at around $300 or so. I put on a pump from Napa. No good. So I got another and installed it. Same thing. My normal procedure is to install the pump, fill the reservoir, lift the vehicle and turn the steering lock to lock until no air bubbles appear in the reservoir. Then start the engine and turn it off as soon as it starts. Top off the fluid as necessary and repeat the start and turn off a few times to purge air, then start and make sure it works. It has always worked for me. No matter what I did on this one I could not get power assist. So I ordered another new pump from another aftermarket parts store, maybe Oreilly's or FMP, Don't remember anymore. Went through the procedure again, still no power steering. That's 3 pumps that I screwed around with and same results. I had the parts department order an OE pump. When it came in I installed it, filled it, purged the air and it operated flawlessly. So when it comes to replacement parts nothing surprises me anymore!

 

[DPittman]

I assume that you loosened the pressure hose to determine no fluid is being pumped? I used to work for a baking company that had delivery vans with 4BT Cummins engines which is basically the same as the 5.9 Cummins with 2 less cylinders. To change the pump did you have to pull the gear off of the PS pump shaft and have to press it back on? Just wanting to know if you are using the same original gear and you are pulling it back on not driving it? Back to pulling the hose loose to verify pressure or flow? If this was not done I would recommend jacking up the front end and turning the wheel back and forth to see if that will get it to function.

This pump shaft driven by the vacuum pump shaft which is powered by the timing gear. No gears or pulleys to take off. It has been on jack stands for a month and turning the wheels back and forth has done no good

 

[DPittman]

First,do you get a good vacuum if you put your thumb over the hose while running?

Haven’t tried that. The vacuum pump only works environmental controls in the cab.
The power brakes are hydro boosted from the PS pump. I’m going to do some research tomorrow and see if there might be a different fitting for high pressure hose. The hose screws into it so I don’t think that would be it. I’d like for it to be that simple

 

[Keith True]

What I was aiming for was to make sure the vacuum pump shaft is actually spinning.No vacuum-no spinning shaft.Something like the gear spinning on the pump shaft would be pretty remote,but it is step one in chasing down a problem.Those units are pretty miserable to get on and off aren't they? What red MN was getting at was if you resealed the vacuum pump you had to pull the gear to do it,and pull it back onto the shaft with a pulley installation tool.

 

[300jk]

Posting this here because this is the truck I drag the tractors around with.
Working on a 1999 Dodge 3500 5.9 Cummins 2wd 5 speed. Steering box was sloppy and leaking oil badly. Order a reman along with new Ps pump and a vacuum pump reseal kit.
Take everything apart and put it all back together with minimal problems. Keep in mind the vacuum and PS pumps only go together one way otherwise you destroy the vacuum pump.
Put fluid in and work the steering a little bit to try and get the box to start pulling fluid in. That doesn’t work so I started the truck and let it run for a little bit and absolutely no fluid gets pumped. Bad pump, right?
Three pumps now and the fourth one is new and none of them will pump. I’ve cracked the high pressure lines to relieve any air blockage, put the old hose back on, blew through all of hoses to eliminate any blockages elsewhere and today I took the vacuum pump back off to make sure that shaft was not broken and it’s not.
Cannot fathom four bad pumps in a row even though I know the bad part numbers are up in the industry. Have consulted with the gurus in my area with no results. Hoping someone here has had this same problem and found a solution. I’m am tired of laying under this thing. Thank you
Just to be clear, the issue itself is no PS fluid is coming from the pump
280000 on the truck if that matters in

It’s been quite a few years since I did one on a truck I used to own. I had a 2009 2500 5.9 and I bought a rebuild kit from Geno’s Garage. I pulled everything apart and rebuilt it. Didn’t take long and everything worked perfect after I was done. Worst was realizing I needed the half moon wrench they recommended. There were some precautions to follow. Sorry I can’t remember them, but were important. They are a Dodge/ Ram diesel aftermarket company. I bought a bunch of things from them when I ran my Cummins trucks. Maybe give them a call.

 

[used red MN]

This pump shaft driven by the vacuum pump shaft which is powered by the timing gear. No gears or pulleys to take off. It has been on jack stands for a month and turning the wheels back and forth has done no good

Sorry been to long. I was thinking about the units we had with hydro boost that only had a power steering pump. On those you had to pull the gear off to change the pumps just like the belt pulley. Those Saginaw pumps are vane pumps, here is a video a guy pulling one apart. Saginaw PS pump tear down I would think if you have a higher speed battery drill and you could rig up something to chuck in it to spin it I would think it would pump oil that way as a test. I can’t remember if they have a hex in the end of the shaft by the threaded hole or not.

 

[joeysmith]

New pumps possible the wrong rotation?
Stranger things have happened with parts these days

 

[DPittman]

Yes Keith the shaft is spinning freely and the gear is tight on the shaft. It’s all laying on the bench ready to go but it won’t go because I actually did what Red said to do with a bench test using a drill and still no satisfaction. Spun it both ways at top rpm on the drill. Took video of me doing it so my parts guy could see what was going on and he agreed that even if the drill wasn’t fast enough the pump should be doing something.
Three other diesel techs agreed with us. This was done strictly with the pump so the vacuum pump would not be part of the equation .
These are self priming pumps and I had the reservoir full of fluid. Almost an inch from the top. I’ve had pumps off and on just like you guys have and never had a problem like this. And yes Keith, tight quarters and sometimes a mirror to see what I’m doing.

 

[DaveBN]

Dumb question but what fluid are you using? That vintage of a pump might be ATF which is non foaming. If your using PS fluid that might be a problem although I would think a good pump would pump water if you put that in it. Please excuse the dumb question but you are grasping at straws.
Dave